Pre-soaking Castor Bean Seeds.. Yes?..No?

Hi,All.

I have been growing Castor Beans for years, but have never pre-soaked them before.

I decided to try that this year, so put some hand-hot water in a small marjorine tub, and poured about 20 of my seeds in (which I collected last fall).
I was surprised to see them just floating on top of the water, unlike other seeds I've soaked.

Can anyone tell me if this is normal? Is the floating an indication of sorts?

I'd love a little input here, from other Castor Bean growers. BTW, these are 'Carmencita' seeds.

Thanks so much.
Sasha

Floating supposedly means the seeds aren't viable but I've planted floaters before and they've still germinated (I haven't grown castor bean, this was other seeds).

ecrane,

That's just what I was afraid of! I've just "gotta" know, tho- so will pot them up in peat pots, and report the results here-however they turn out.

Thanks for your speedy response!

Sasha

I was really concerned, since I had sent many of these seeds to Canada and across the USA to DG subscribers.

I would have felt so bad, if I thought I had sent DG friends bad seeds.

Sooo, I decided to do the 'ole paper towel in the plastic bag method, and VOILA!! In 28 hours, this is what I saw!

I'm not worried anymore. I put 16 in the wet paper towels, and only 4 have sprouted in the 28 hours, but most of the others are very swollen, so expect them to "pop" in the next day or 2.

Here's the way they look:
Sasha

Just stick em in the ground and water. LOL
I get tons of volunteers within 10 feet of my trees from seeds just dropping in the dirt and germinating.

Most any tough seedcoat seeds can benifit from luke-warm water soak. The tissue method render same idea, to help soften them for faster germination. I soaked my Castor bean seeds, those viable sprouted, other won't. First placing them in water though, they float. But as they absorb enough water then they will sink. My seedlings planted out when weather permits; it's now 4 feet tall. And doing beautifully. Those I waited to plant out later, remain smaller and don't seem to grow very fast. All seedling were potted indoor before transplanting. As long as temp. is above freezing, they seem to enjoy the cool temp. and grew at a rapid rate.

You can theoretically presoak any seed but it's not always necessary. I must pull out and toss about 40 seedlings a month from mine bushes and trust me, not only are they not presoaked but also not planted. They find there own way in.

I'm happy to report a 90% germination ratio, pre-soaking the castor bean seeds.

I potted them up into 4.5 inch deep containers and grew them on for a couple weeks.

they are happily residing in my garden beds now!

It just kinda threw me, when I first saw them floating! And, add to that-this was the first time I have ever saved my own seeds for propagation.
So many firsts! LOL
But, it's all good.

Sasha

Go Sasha!

Castor beans are super high in oils. I had some that were so fatty that when crushed, they felt like butter. The oils encourage them to float until totally saturated with water. If you want to speed germination, scarify the flinty seed coats so that water can get in, then soak them and keep them warm.

What kind of castor beans are they?

Budgie, you're right. In hot and rainy West Palm, I remember entire vacant lots covered with volunteers. In all that summer heat and moisture, they had plenty of time to hydrate and sprout, then when the weather went dry, they were well on they're way and couldn't be stopped. I saw some that were at least 10 feet tall.

Agrinerd,

The Cultivar is 'Carmencita'.

I have lots more, if you want some. They get(for me, anyway) about 15 ft tall, and up to 8 ft wide, with lots of branching.

I got over 400 seeds off three plants last year.

Sasha

Interesting post. I couldn't find my hyacinth bean seed a couple of weeks ago so had a friend bring me some. Meanwhile I looked it up on a germination chart and it said 2 to 3 weeks. I was impatient so decided to soak them in water. 24 hours later they were swelled so I took them out and wrapped them up in a damp washcloth. The following evening I unwrapped the cloth to find 1/4 inch sprouts.

So hubby on his crutches held the flashlight, while I tilled in compost, preparing the bed under my tower and the seeds went into the ground 48 hours after first soaking. Two to three weeks___my foot!!! Couldn't even say I planted by moonlight___there wasn't any!! But I was afraid that 14 hours more and I would be breaking of the sprouts. (What gardeners won't do for their seeds!!!)

... and husbands for their wives!

:-)

Sasha;
Do you let the seed pod dry on the plant before picking?
I'm asking because, I didn't get that good of germination rate.
Also is the Carmencita, The red or crimsen plant?
Guess I'm going to have to check that out.
Last year was the first time I grew any, since I was a child.
I only had 4 plants survive. They didn't get very big. Only about 3'. but they were late too.This year I have a dozen. I put them out a little earlier, hoping they get a little taller.
Russ

randbponder,

Some were left on the plant to dry, but many were not. Right before first frost, I cut the bloom stocks off the plant(only the stocks where the seed heads looked fairly full and mature), then laid out on paper in my plant room. I kept turning them so they didn't mildew. When the seed pods were dried and brittle, I extracated the seeds, and left them in a cardboard flat for a month or so indoors (on top of a nearly ceiling high book case.)

It was hot and dry up there. Then I bagged them in a paper bag and stored in a Popcorn Tin for the rest of winter.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question about red or crimson. I didn't realize there were two colors of Carmencita-and I don't think the seed pack designated which they were, when I bought it, last year. I threw the packet away I guess, since I can't locate it.

I'm wondering if the late start was your problem. I believe they need about 120 days to full maturity.
Someone feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong on that.

Did you pre-soak, or just plant them in the ground? I find mine like quite a lot of moisture to get established in the garden, but after they're a couple feet tall, I water them probably once a week or so.

Sasha

As for names, I'm pretty bad as not keeping record. I do have both varieties. One is green, and the other is red. I've got the red castor bean from Eburgess, and the green one form seedrack. This is my very 1st year of trying this type of plant. Will update their progresses as I see them.

I used to grow the green ones-don't know what the variety was, but one major difference (besides the obvious color difference) is the growth habit.

The green grew taller, the stems were much bigger around, and they didn't branch as freely from ground level. The roots were also MUCH bigger, and longer-making them much more difficult to dig out in the spring.

One year, my green ones were nearlt as tall as the electric lines at the side of my property fence line.

The carmencita's have a "softer" look (imho)because of their shrubby appearance.

OK Thanks for all the in put. I'm back inside possibly for the rest of the day. I was out killing weeds in the garden, an am worn out. I think now I had better go into plant files and see if I can find something on them. I have the red ones that is probably the same shorter variety, but will try find out. Right now mine are about 8" tall. And as I remember those that I grew as a kid were monsters. so I guess they must have been green. Thanks again. Everyone!!!

Well I found two cultivators.
Carmencita pink
& Zanzabarensis ( aka zanzabar) (This is the green)
I may look a little further, to see if there may be more.

Yup there are more.
A Red, Pink. Gray,& Green. Zanzibaresis green, Carmencita red, Impala maroon , to carmine. and New Zealand Purple, Deep copper red leaves. Wuv'n Acres has them.
() TROPICAL LOOKING CASTOR BEAN TREES / SHRUBS

Think there are more. but that is enough
I just hope that what I have started do well this year.
Thanks again.
Now I am armed with where I can get more varieties.

Hopefully someone is still watching this thread, cuz I have a question....

I read castor bean seeds were poisonous. I want to plant this, but I free range my chickens, and I don't know if they would eat them off the ground. Is it possible to 'catch' the beans before they fall off? Meaning are they firmly enough attached so that I can remove or contain them before they fall off? I have a mole resort farm going on here. I read it kills moles. Do they just not like the smell, do they eat the roots, beans, or what?

Thanks, Robin

msrobin,

Just cut the bloom stalks off, when you first spot them. In your situation, that may be important. this will eliminate seeds altogether.

I'm not sure if the moles eat the bean seeds.

In all the years I've grown Castor beans, I've never seen birds or even squirrels, bother this plant (in fact, they seem to purposefully avoid it).
so, I'd be surprised if the moles ate them. Just a thought-maybe the seeds dissolve in the ground and as the mole passes over them, maybe the poison is systemic?
I'd love to hear from someone who know's exactly why the beans work with moles.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly!

I know that castor oil is used in OTC mole repellants. The package says moles don't like the smell. I'm assuming the oil comes from castor beans. But nothing I read about this plant explained how or why it worked.

We don't have any shade on our place except for umbrellas, so thought this would be a great plant to add.

msrobin; Yes, All parts of a castor bean plant are poisonous.
I have them in and around my garden. Last year I had voles raise havoc with all my root crops. This year I haven't seen a trace of moles, voles or even mice, in the garden. I think the scent may have something to do with it. If you are really bothered by moles, you can crush the seed and mix it with a little cornmeal. and put it in one or more of their tunnels. Keep in mind while doing this you are working with poison. Use all caution and wash your hands after handeling the beans. I don't know for sure if chickens would even try eating any other part or not. But I definatly would not chance it with the seeds. You can place net bags over the flower/ seed stalk. That would prevent any seed pods from falling to the ground. Castor bean stalks don't get too tall here in zone 4. Further south though they can reach 15ft. and in some places can be a perennial. I don't recall my parents ever losing any chickens to castor beans, and we did grow them for rodent prevention. I think just to be on the side of caution I would either pick the seeds, or put a net bag over the seed stalk.

What an interesting thread....I think the plants are very pretty.....but we are not allowed to grow them here in NSW as they are considered a Noxious weed and too poisonous.Heavy fines if caught growing them.As a child I remember them .........they grew wild in the paddocks.....after the deaths of a few children it was banned.So just a note of caution .......if you are going to grow them get rid of the seeds...as they were the culprits (children putting them in ther mouths)

I'll bag the seepods ASAP, though I've no young children but I'll take precaution because pets could ingest them too.

I have a castor that is 15' foot tall and 6 foot wide. Its Burgandy and Purple leafed.

My grand mother gave me 5 seeds about a year ago. Only one survived. We've had to stake it and tie to our fence. It has just gotten huge. There was one point during the winter when it got to 22 F. We thought we had lost it. They seem to be very drought tolerant at least I'm hoping. It gets around 99 to 105 F during the hottest part of the summer.

My sister in law when she was a child actually ate one of the beans and had to be rushed to the hospital. The local news paper wrote a warning story about what happened.

I have pets and birds and tree rats (squirrels) They all leave it alone.

My husband has fallen in love with this plant... Tree ... lol ...
I have 13 seed/flower stalks on the castor now. They are getting close to seeding stage. I usually let them dry on the stalk.

I didn't know how to bag the seeds until now. So thank you for the information.

I also didn't know they are great for deturing moles and rats. I'll have to plant more in the yard. I have trenches in my yard from my dog digging after moles.

Thank you for this tread. Its nice to talk with people who enjoy the Castor.

I forgot to add a picture of my baby .... giant .... lol :)

They do get big, even up here in zone 4. They do not survive the winter though.
I grow them in the veggie garden, to keep the voles and moles away from my root crops, so when spring comes and time to till the garden, I usually have to dig deep to get rid of the old stumps. I would expect some of the beans that did drop may sprout but since I use a big roto tiller they may not. I may have disturbed them about the same time they were sprouting. I have a 5 gallon bucket of seeds though so It isn't like I lost my only plant. LOL
By the way, The leaves make a nice impression instepping stones, if you cast your own. I used three leaves in a sand cast, for a bird bath. Which I still haven't painted. If I get a break in planting and and other garden work I will have to finish it and post a pic

That was the other reason (besides some shade by the pool) for growing it. I love the leaf castings!

The type of poison comes from their Latin name. Ricinus Communis.
All parts of the plant are poisonous. Though I do see some insects munching away on the leaves. But then they could be like a turtle. They are a grazer and they can eat some of the Death Angle mushroom and it won't phase them. It would have to be highly processed to get really nasty, to where even breathing the vapor or dust particles, would kill.
When I find that a Mole has invaded my lawn or garden, I will crush up a hand full of the beans and put them into its tunnel. I do the same for mice when I notice they have invaded the garage. At least I think they go home with a nasty tummy ache.
As to castor oil, very nasty stuff, however it was used as a medicinal cure all. I sure won't use it though. Blah ICK. LOL
I remember getting a spoonful as a youngster. Can't remember for sure if I was sick or naughty. he he he.

I planted a castor bean plant last year because they were supposed to repel gophers...sure enough it worked, the gopher didn't touch the castor bean, but it ate the 3 plants that were sitting right next to it that I was trying to protect! LOL

Sorry. . . That got a chuckle out of me.
It's not funny when you're trying to protect your garden and the critters get around it any way.

I had a bit of a laugh over it too, once I'd found a source for the one rare, hard to replace plant they ate. Up until I found a new one though I was not a happy camper! At the time I planted that bed originally I didn't know about the gopher problem and when I found out about the gophers it was the middle of summer so I didn't want to dig up a semi-established plant just to put it in a wire cage. So I figured I'd plant the castor bean instead to see if that would work. Now I've learned my lesson so anything expensive or hard to replace goes in a wire basket, and I'm buying "backup" plants of some of the other rarer stuff that was already planted just in case the gophers get the one that's there.

Well I don't really do expensive plants. Although sometimes they are a one of a kind. Bunnies are my main problem. Last year I got some heirloom tomatoes at the RU. I wasn't really looking for tomatoes. But they didn't want to take all of them back home, so I said OK I'll try them.
Well I had only one Dr. Caroline. Wouldn't you know it, that one was one of three that was chewed off right at ground level. All the rest of the tomatoes done really great. One mater was actually a 4lb mater.
But I still really wondered what would the Dr. Caroline have done. This year they didn't have one . I saved plenty seeds from the others, labeled the containers so I would know which was which. I've planted half of them. And of course bunnies coming in from all over. Thank God for poultry wire. LOL
It's a little early for Castor beans to have any size to them. So I guess I have one big wire cage. LOL

I think the critters have a sixth sense that tells them which are the plants we'd be the most upset if they ate, and then they munch those first!

Uhhh You may have something there. I'm all for changing their mind though. Any way you can!!!

I agree ecrane... I have tree rats aka squirels and moles ... I'm about to go on a castor bean planting frenzy. I've started vegies for the first time in my life and the cats and the dog can only do so much with out destroying the plants. Hopefully I can keep the moles out of my bulb bed this year!! They ate almost everything last year... I wish thermal cameras weren't so expensive .... Iol I would definitly get ahold of the moles alot easier that way. I have a min pin and she digs after them and unfortunately she creates small ditches in the yard. ... lol you should see her go lol ... she's caught a few. The castors will definitly be easier on the garden though :)