Epsom Salts

I haven't had water them at all. They were planted before Easter, I remember having to put a box over them during the freeze. I did take cuttings to plant in a bit more shade, just in case they don't do as well next year in full sun. Still nervous with new plantings, it's been such an odd year with the weather.

The roses planted next to them are new so won't get ES till next spring. But, I'm pretty careful about putting ES around just the root zone.

Just wondering....now that we are into Fall.....what are the final votes on Epsom Salt?
Are you plants better or did you loose some that can be directly attributed to ES?

Personally, I'm still happy and am going to boost it some today as I put the garden to bed.

I have learned so much this summer all because of the wonderful people on DG.

Thanks to every one of you.

Christi Lou

I am absolutely sure that my roses benefited alot from ES. And I know that somebody said not use it on salvia, but I have a black and blue salvia at the base of my Cecile Brunner rose, so I took a chance and used it anyway. It looks great - even the salvia. I didn't use ES on my garden sage however. I can't tell that it helped my hostas any at all. I think the bougie liked it though.

No losses here Christi!.. Surely better all the way around.

ES and Tex lava (20% Fe) sand are a good addition for iron supplement. Sometimes potted plants need a little doctoring.

:-) debnes

Here in the High Desert 8b, my plants reserected from near death, in part due to the ES and the peroxide too.

Hi LouC...wow what a long thread!

I never thought that epsom might be why I can't seem to grow anything small..it's all Giant. I apply it twice a year usually, although I put a bonus application on this summer because of the rain.

I just put out my fall application about 3 weeks ago along with the alfalfa pellets that have fish emulsion, cotton seed extract, mollases, and seaweed...(okay that's why everything is giant.)

Rj

Just glad that I discovered it for myself. I don't have a jungle but something are better for the help of ES.

One of my gardener friends had told me that our soil here is has a low epsom/salt. in the Houston area anyway..I think it had a relation to the clay soil...

I found this table, that is a very easy to use chart for symptoms of plant and what it possibly lacks...if nothing else, it brings PrimaryNutrients , Function, Deficiency Symptoms and *Solutions into a cohesive format .

lets see if the link will work..>!
try this one first...goes right to the table I'm refering to
http://www.espoma.com/content.aspx?type=pfb§ion=1

http://www.espoma.com/default.aspx

This message was edited Oct 3, 2007 8:28 PM

Thanks Rj for that link. I bookmarked it for later reference.

Me to on my blog.

Yes, I must compliment them on a good job, short sweet and to the point!

wish they sold that green sand here in Cal.

Zone11, it could be that they don't sell it because you don't need it. Maybe it's something else you need. Can you get a fertilizer called Buds and Blooms? It's made by Rabbit Hill Farms. It has green sand in it. You'll have to ask somewhere that sells organic gardening stuff. Or you might try a feed store.

No one in the garden centers knows of it here. We are Sunset zone 11, usda zone 8b. Thanks may try the feed places, what do they do with it though?

hellnzn11.
I have mentioned it a lot here too, and often I get a look and response as though I grew an extra head... But I know it works!
I suppose it is more well known in organic gardening circles, than in the common marketplace..

debnes

Well it appears it comes out of Texas so maybe they don't export it to other area zones. Would it be called something different in a feed store?

Zn11, you should be able to get NJ greensand, at least. It's not as good as Tx greensand as an iron additive, but it's still very good, and it's a great soil amendment.

Cocoa, (just reading an old thread!), I have a S. guaranitica (Black & Blue) that I was also told should go in full sun. It is established, and it has survived, but it burns very easily when it gets hot. It looks okay in the spring and suffers from June on. I think it would do better with more shade. I'm planning to move it before spring.

Lou, just throwing out my .02 here. I add Epsom salts to my "fertilizer concoction" that I use on all my plants. It might be what killed my beautiful May Nights. But it's hard to say because all the rain took its toll too. Other than that, I can't separate its results from all the other stuff I use.

The two most important things I use are compost and alfalfa. Doesn't matter how much compost you use; it's all good. :) I measure alfalfa more carefully, but it's my staple fertilizer. All the other things get thrown into compost/alfalfa tea, and they seem to be icing on the cake. That includes Epsom salt. It can be overdone. It should be either very diluted, or used only once or twice a year.

Other stuff we use in our teas are added if/when we have them around. In no particular order: soft rock colloidal phosphate; Texas greensand (better when spread directly in larger amounts); corn meal (anti-fungal and fertilizer); a pkg of yeast (encourages microbial soil activity); beer (same); milk (anti-fungal); vinegar in very small amounts (soil acidifier); blackstrap molasses (soil activity); liquid seaweed (also best if applied directly); coffee (nitrogen and acidifier). Sometimes I throw in a little peroxide, to help with aerification while I'm brewing the tea.

We tried spreading dry molasses a couple of times, on HG's recommendation. Great stuff. But every housefly within 300 miles found our house. LOL! Better to use the liquid and dilute it. Same with fish emulsion, only those critters were much bigger than flies.

We use a local fertilizer called Texas Tea on our lawn. We have tried almost every organic fertilizer on the market and still had trouble growing grass. Our local farm supply (Roach Feed & Seed in Garland) recommended that and Rabbit Hill, and it just happened that the Texas Tea was the one that we tried first. It worked--we finally have a lawn after all these years. So, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Tks, Lady. I lost lots early this spring/summer because of the rain. BTW, we have gotten 1 1/2 inches since 10PM last night and it is 8:30 AM. Really needed it. I have resorted to running the sprinkler system but that just keeps things alive....they don't thrive. Rjuddharrison has recommended something that has a ton of things already mixed as pellets. Catch his thread on Tropical Gardening. Get it at yard.geek. His first site he recommended was incorrect.

LOL at Debnes, I know what you mean about people looking at you funny. That happens to me all the time, but I keep asking and after awhile they get used to my weirdness I guess. Or else other people start asking for the same things.

Lady that Texas Tea sounds very interesting. Is it only for grass? I like Rabbit Hill, but it can get to be expensive. I'm thinkin' I should try some alfalfa tea. If I can just get myself organized enough to make it so it's ready when I can actually get it sprayed. I've heard it's best to keep it aerated while it's brewing.

Wow, I'm not sure if it's only for grass or not. I wouldn't think so. All my beds get some "sprayed" on them from the fertilizer dispenser, and it sure doesn't hurt them. But I'll check the label tomorrow.

Around here, it's about the same price as the same-size bag of Rabbit Hill. I think it's $20 or $21.

I use alfalfa tea, and sometimes I use an airstone, but sometimes I don't. If I'm out there most of the day (which I am as often as possible!), I just stir it well 2-3 times a day.

Pattie

Hmmm. I tried to Google Texas Tea and went through 4 pages without finding it. Where do you buy it?

Okay, I went out and read the bag, and came up with everything you always wanted to know about Texas Tee.

First, I misspelled it--it's Texas Tee. If you google that spelling you'll get some hits. It's made by Maestro-Gro in Hamilton, Texas. The bag says it's "super for lawns" and (underscored) excellent for gardens and trees. Suitable for any organic application.

Looks like it has all the good stuff in it. Hmmm... I may have to use this in my beds next year, instead of doing all that mixing. Ingredients, in this order, are feather meal, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, compost, corn meal, ferrous sulfate, calcium phosphate, humates, kelp meal, molasses, sulfate of potash magnesium, wheat midds (whatever those are), and yeast. Ratio is 6-2-4.

We buy ours at our local feed store, but it's available in various places around Texas. Somewhere, I read that you can order it online too. But that would be pretty expensive, I'd think, to ship that much weight.

It sounds a lot like Buds & Blooms from Rabbit Hill Farms... Only it doesn't have the worm castings, epsom salt or rabbit manure, that B&B does. I get mine at Green Mama's here. I also buy the RH Kelp, RH rabbit manure, lava and green sands, and epsom salts. This way I can apply to things that I don't want to bloom, such as Coleus and Parsley.

I haven't tried the Tee before, but I have bought Maestro-Gro Bloom mixture when then didn't have B&B. Maybe it was Texas Tee, can't remember..

debnes

Great info here guys. Wjhat do you like best to break down your clay? do you just do raised beds and call it a year? I found that most plants in my zone that do well, still need drainage so I struggle with working this crap soil. I am now doing a large lasagna garden that will be decomposed by spring and starting a new one but still have a lot of land. I've gone to a lot of Mediteranian type plants and xeriscape plants (that still like drainage) but rabbits and gophers don't seem to like them and we are in a drought.

Texans I know a great plant that grows like a weed, is evergreen, handled a flood where they were submerged for two or three months in clay muck and completely under water in the winter and also do great in almost 0 water. "ATRIPLEX CANESCENS or Four winged Salt bush. If you never tried one, try one, they are pretty silver green and can be shaped , clipped into a small ornamental multi trunk tree or a formal hedge or natural. Rabbits and gophers hate them because of the salt and they grow fst from seed and love alkaline too.

For my alkaline clay,ie. black gumbo. we add hardwood mulch twice a year. This year the rains kept floating it out of the beds so had to add another layer just recently. The earth worms are prolific so that is helping a lot. Have also added a lot of MG garden soil over the last 3 years. Sand just makes concrete. We are only 17 miles from several concrete plants infact that mine the rock right there. When the interstate was cut down futher a couple of years ago you could see the cement rock layers very near the surface....3-4 feet.
Between the rock and the extreme climate....gardening is a challenge.

Where would one find the plant you mention above? Is it a tree or shrub?

I sure would like to find this shrub too, but I have never seen it around here, although it is a native, here is a link; http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/59518
and another, if someone can find it let me know;
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/nativeshrubs/atriplexcanes.htm
Josephine.

That is exactly what I did with my front beds, stacks of leaves. The neighborhood lawn services bag leaves separately, and I collect them and throw huge stacks on the beds..works great

We don't let them bag our leaves. They have to rake or blow them out of the beds, scatter around and mulch. No bagging all year long.

I will look but I found them on several of our choice nursury sites here on DG.

that one has a few brown spots because we just clipped the inside of the bush that had no light. here is another version and a one gallon plant will be about 5x6 in 2 years or less.

It looks great, and it appears to be a good plant for tough environments.
Thank you for showing it.
Josephine.

Forestfarm and Plants of the wild both carry them on Dg Plant scout.

My shrubs have been this size in hight since the first year, both looked like a branch when I planted them and then one I planted 3 months ago now is like 20 branches wide now and each branch is about two feet long. The first year I planted it, was the year it was under water and clay. We live in a dry lake bed and there is cement plants all around me with in 5 miles, including a branch of Portland cement. Sounds like if it does well here it will do great there, same zone too.

We have extreme cold and sometimes snow in the winter, we have horrid winds, hot, dry summers, salt and drought, rabbits and gophers.

I have a lot of seeds if you want some.

I never did this before though so bare with me if you want them, tell me how to send them?

Another one that did great and in the same way and at the same time is my coyote bush "Baccaris" also called desert broom, it grows as a dence ground cover, mounding both plants are evergreen too, both plants were under water and seldom need water, but the baccaris does better with some water atleast it spreads better and very fast and loves alkaline soil too, how many can make that claim. There are other varieties if you look in the Sunset Western Gardening book, that grow upright and lime green and are made into clipped shapes and topiary shapes. I saw one in a Jack in the box that was all clipped about 7 feet tall and went into a wave pattern. It is about to flower now too.

We have Baccharis,Desert broom here too, and I think it is lovely, most of the time it looks like a small willow and in the fall it blooms all those soft white flowers.
Baccharis sarothroides http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/81748
Here is a picture in its natural habitat.

Beautiful plants y'all! Great suggestions too!

hellnzn.. You asked >

hellzn, how odd that we should both be on cement deposits. Your ground appears very golden with fine rock....mine is dark black clay. If you go barefoot when it is wet it will stick to your feet and you have get something to dig it off. Have lived in this same spot 40 years so it has had lots and lots of amending. Still not always successful. I can really sympathize with your problems. You say dry lake bed. Trinity Portland started here in Texas and my grandfather worked for them during the Great Depression. Did they excavate where you property is now?

Ms Josephine ~ if I read this right, Mitch has seeds for that plant ~ http://davesgarden.com/community/trading/search.php?search_text=PFPID:59518 or perhaps you would rather find a plant. Maybe he can help.

Thank you, I will check with him.

Baccaris Pilularis is the one I have and it is a ground cover. I really like the looks of that one you have in the pix

Lou that is funny but I don't think they mined here just in the mountains across from here. My soil really is very pale and colorless almost light tan and if it gets wet it sucks the shoes off your feet, honestly My house started to sink in our flood. It is a tripple wide manufactured home and it sunk the footings. Bad stuff. I have a lot of alkaline in our water and calcium too. uhg. We have that real bad hard pan too that you have to saturate for weeks to plant a tree and it still is hard to make it big enough and add enough to it.

Goodness, and I though I had bad ground. Seems that you would be almost forced to build raised beds and completely fill them with foreign soil....meaning anything that didn't come from your own property.

That is the view from my front door, those are the mountains that they mine the back of. On the hill you can see an old gold mine that is called Tropico, it use to have the international chili cook off there each year but the studios bought it and film there now so it is closed off. The left side of that mountain as you face it and out of frame is the Famous Willow Springs Raceway. I don't like looking at the vacant land but like the mountain view. You see why gophers and rabbits are my enemy.

I am doing a lot more with raised beds but I am breaking them down still so this year I hope to have a lot more landscape. I accidently posted the wrong pix, this is where I am going to ammend the soil for flower gardens next year but out of Frame is a big huge lasagna garden. Too much work to break up all that. I have 5/8 of an acre of this hard pan crap. Thank God for you guys who told me about the alfalfa teas so worms are helping alot in this area. I just threw a bunch of cubes down for the winter too, that will help. I tilled in a lot of straw last year as well. Some idiot put dg all over this area so it is like wet cement.gggggrrrrrr