Epsom Salts

Have heard of the usage of Epsom Salts before but this is the first Spring I have really put it to use.
Magic is the word. Even better than the time-released fertilizers. Everything is 2-3 times larger than ever and the flowers are overloaded with buds already. http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/garden_usage_tips.htm This picture was taken April 6, 2007. It is a mallow hollyhock. The leaves have never been half this size and the only difference is the Epsom Salts.

Anyone else use it?

LouC

Went to Plant Files and found that this is a French Mallow Hollyhock. I have had them for about 3 years and I love them.

I have never used the epsom salt but I have heard of people using it.
That is very interesting, I might have to give it a try.
Josephine.

Josephine,
You are the epitomy of gardening knowledge and most probably a lot of other things as well.

If your stamp of approval is on something.....it has to be the very best.

LouC

Lou, I use it on my Brugmansias as they require more magnesium than what Miracle grow or Osmocote contain, but not on other plants. Have you used it on other plants with the same results? How often? How much? Any adverse effects on any of them?

I'm a great believer in soil testing. Otherwise we might be adding something that makes the situation worse. Magnesium is usually available in sufficient quantities unless the soil is very acidic. This first link explains the use of magnesium.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0725.html
This next link explains the use of epsom salt
http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf62825998.tip.html

If too much magnesium is present in the soil, then it will displace the uptake of Calcium by the plant.

You have caused me to do some research...which is a very good thing. I have dense clay on top of white caliche which is only about 3-4' below the surface. As I have been able to determine...Alkaline soil. For several years we have added 6 pounds of Epsom Salts to our fertilizer and broadcast them together....abou 5,000 feet of lawn (and decreasing because I continue to need more beds). It obviously increased the density of the turf and we have been very satisfied. That is only once per year. This Spring I also broadcast the ES around the bed and could not believe the difference. We have lived on this property of 40 years and it has been thoroughly amended. I have always been a hit or miss garderner and a couple of years ago decided to get with it. My next door neighbor joined me and we have created our own secret garden. I prefer to call it a cottage garden because I just plant something wherever there is an empty spot. Most of all it is my time to commune with God and relieve the stress of things over which I have no control and cannot change.
Every morning at about 7:30, Becky is her yard and I in mine inspecting every little leaf and bloom. Last year I purchased a soil kit at HD and was hopeless in making heads or tails of it. If it thrives, I add more of the same, if it is puny and I can't save it, I don't plant it again.
DG has been a wealth of information and I am totally addicted. I appreciate your helping me and it has given me another challenge.
God is good EVERYDAY.
LouC

Your plants look real healthy.

LouC .. you are almost a neighbor ... can you come over to my place and determine what I did wrong with my soil? lol
Anyway Guys ... I just moved here about six months ago ... all because I wanted to put my 135 Hostas in the ground. The next door neighbor told me nothibg grows back here. So I bought 10 bags of compost (Humore) and 2 bags of peat, had it tilled in the soil. Now the soil is all lumpy and cakey. What did I do wrong? or what can I do to correct it?
Sylvia

sylvia,

I had only recently begun to follow the threads closely when you were in the process of moving. So wonderful to recognize people after reading the various posts. I'm the last person in the world to know what the right thing is to do. I just try, and try again. Don't usually post but read a lot. Feel I don't have enough knowdledge to offer very much. The Epsom Salts thing was just kind of a fluke. If you have clay soil like I do, it should never, ever be disturbed when it is wet.....just dries in clods that take forever to disolve. Using that much compost and peat not all is lost. Probably needs to wait for dry weather and till again. And then, it depends on how large an area that you have...might not be enough compost and peat. You are sweet to ask for my opinion and it is nothing more than that...an opinion.

God is good EVERYDAY.

This was my roses yesterday. Who knows with snow and freezing today. If God made it bloom, and he decided to change the weather...it will bloom again.

LouC
LouC

I have been using epsom salts with good results. I have used epsom salts on all my roses, camelias, and azaleas. This year, I added some to alfalfa tea and fed all my already fowering plants (salvias, dianthus, phlox, thrift). I have experienced greener and more robust plants with epsom salts. Here is a link to a good article on epsom salts http://www.garden.org/subchannels/flowers/roses?q=show&id=68

I did read an article (can't find it right now), that stated that epsom salts aren't good for some plants---will try to find it.

Epsom is Magnesium Sulfate. The sulfate will lower pH. Magnesium is often deficient in soils with pH greater than 7. Thus in Texas alkalytic (pH >7) clay soil, adding magnsium sulfate will neutralize pH. Thus, creating a root zone environment with more accessable nitrogen, other electrolytes, and minerals.

If your soil test reveals acidic pH with excess magnesium, adding epsom salts might not be the best thing.

I've read that people mix epsom salts with compost or finely crushed alfalfa pellets in a broadcast spreader and apply the mix to the entire lawn. I may try this in a few months.

I purchase my epsom salts in the generic epsom salts bag from any pharmacy.

This message was edited Apr 7, 2007 7:51 PM

Sylvia,
Did your neighbor explain why nothing would grow? There are a number of reasons why this can happen: soil compaction, hardpan, high clay content, soil too acidic or basic. If you get your soil tested, you'll know exactly what you're dealing with. The price is well worth it.

From your description, I think you have very heavy clay.
Here are ways to performs some tests yourself to see how much clay you have.
http://www.rain.org/global-garden/soil-types-and-testing.htm
Although this article refers to CA soils the article still merits a look:
http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/clay.htm
http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/hort/g06955.htm
vric.ucdavis.edu/veginfo/topics/soils/managingclay.pdf

I used links to educational institutions. They are not interested in pushing a product.

• You could deal with clay soil by using plants that tolerate clay soil.
• You could dig down to see if there is a hardpan underneath. If so, you
will have to break though it to allow the top soil to drain past it.
• If you amend, you have to use enough compost to make a difference.
Otherwise, you are making adobe.
• Also remember that you have to amend large areas. If you don't, you'll
get a bathtub effect in each hole you amend.
• You start your garden with clay tolerant plants. Over time, as those
plants help improve the soil, you can put in plants you like.


collincountytx, I have read that epsom salts will not alter the soil pH. Aluminum sulfate will alter soil pH, but is recommended for hydrangeas only as the aluminum in high concentrations is toxic to plants. For most things, sulfur is used to lower pH








This message was edited Apr 7, 2007 8:32 PM

LouC ... you know a lot more than you think. I never told you soil was wet when I started planting ... so there ... you see ... you are smarter than you think. :) You just dont know how long I sat around waiting for the soil to dry out. The man who tilled the made me wait until it was dry ... then it started raining again. One of my caretakers decided to start planting the Hostas anyway and that when I saw the soil caking. I will not plant anymore until its dry ... no matter how hot the sun gets.:)
Gee Lou, you really followed that thread ... and you didnt say a word? You could have come over and partake in the fun. lol My plant moving party was supposed to be fun until the hip went out. I was in the hospital one of those weekends when the guys were there without me. Everytime I think of what they did for me ... I get teary eyed ... I would have never had my plants here if not for them. Everyday I discover a plant come up in a pot, I am ecstatic ... even my three littl Mimosa trees a Dger sent me from California ... and they were not even 1 foot tall!




Betty, I dont hink I can till now .. I got too many Hostas in the ground. I will commence working it with a hand tiller when I start planting again. Actually the hostas are coming up wonderfully right now ... lets see what happen next spring.

Hi Sylvia ~ Why don't you consider raised beds. You can avoid the clay by using improved soil in the raised beds.
And they would definitely be easier to work and enjoy... It would be costly to set up but pay in the long run. pod

Sylvia, I have/had clay soil just like you are describing. What worked wonders in my yard was a mixture of things -- I put down used coffee grounds (free from Starbucks), cotton burr compost, a layer of newspaper or cardboard, and covered it with mulch (either local leaves or cedar mulch). Let that sit for a couple of weeks, let the earthworms and beneficial critters do their stuff and, voila, I now have clay soil that is buttery in consistency and very easy to work with. I used to absolutely *hate* working in my hard-as-rock clay soil. Now it's a joy. And I can't believe the size of the earthworms I'm seeing there now.

Since you've already planted some stuff, you might sprinkle coffee grounds and compost all through the beds and cover the entire planting area with a layering of mulch. Wait a couple of weeks and see what the soil is like. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised.

Carla

I used Epsom Salts on my roses for the first time last year and was amazed at the results.

LouC, thank you for posting the link to the Epsom Salts, I am going to give it try.
I wonder if when they say, do not use on Sage, if they mean Salvias too, do you happen to know?

Just a note from one who lives in New York but has enjoyed visiting Texas - we've used Epsom Salt for our roses for the last 15 years. It causes more basal break - more branches. If you're familiar with the VanBourgondien catalog I can attest to the fact that while visiting a VB greenhouse and given a tour they mentioned they always use ES in the system that delivers the nutrients to all of their greenhouse plants.

LouC

I don't know how many times I have explained my gardens in just your words

"I prefer to call it a cottage garden because I just plant something wherever there is an empty spot. Most of all it is my time to commune with God and relieve the stress of things over which I have no control and cannot change."

How great that you have Becky to share your labors and joy.

I have 40 acres of mortor sand.....the kind they glue bricks with.....30 ft deep.......but between me and the master it sure is beautiful


This message was edited Apr 9, 2007 4:36 PM

Really don't know, Jo. This has been a great adventure for me because everything that I put it on has grown like the old days of "mir-acid" tv ads. The picture of only 1 of the peoney and dianthus that have responded favorably. This was taken Good Friday. I have 6 or so peoneys. Got only 1 bloom last year. Today each plant has 20 or more buds.
The rose bushes are blooming multiples and are still loaded with buds. Even the passeflora (sp) is already blooming. Every leaf and every flower is so exciting to me and to have them this healthy is great. Each plant that is emerging from last year is already looking better than ever. My soil must have been in great need of this boost. We have amended and amended and use lots of time released fertilizer.....never had this kind of result.
LouC

Oops. Picture didn't go. try again.

Wrong picture again......that is Becky on the far left....planting as always.
The tree house that is partly visible is for grownups. She has decorated it in a victorian style with tv, small refrig, and lamps and of course, garden mags and books. Wonderful escape. If I knew how to send more than 1 picture at a time, I would start another thread about the tree house and our adventure in working with His direction as we revel in nature.

LouC

We have high alkaline clay soil. We've sent soil off to have it tested and I've done it with the kits. It's always very low in nitrogen. I have a huge problem with plant leaves turning light green and if I'm remembering correctly I tried Epsom salt on them last year and they greened up. Thanks for the reminder Louc! I'm going to sprinkle just a little around a few trial plants and see if it helps.

LouC, have you used it on Salvias?

Jo,

I don't presently have any salvias. Everything else has responded so favorably that if I did have salvia they would get the same treatment.

I plan to buy Salvia when this "Easter Spell" has dissapated.

LouC
Sorry I don't have a good answer.

That is o.k. LouC, I just wondered, because I have lots of salvias. I did ask them on the website, we shall see if they respond.

Jo,
Have just re-read some of the above posts. ColinCounty states that she has used it on Salvia and several other named plants. I believe she would be best able to answer your question.

LouC

Carla I will start the coffee grind thing this weekend. I was saving them to give someone at the Roundup ... I think I need them worse. The only thing about coffee grounds is I hate to feel them in my hands ... it feels so grimy. I guess I will need to start wearing gloves. :)

DH saving the coffee grounds and am putting them on the Irises. Don't what thread I saw that.

I dump the paper filters and grounds into the compost. Amazing how the filters disappear...

I didn't read the whole thread, but i have been using epsom salt all my life on plants....especially hanging baskets of bougainvillea...my understanding is that magnesium gets tied up in alkaline soil and can't be released....I pretty much use 1/2 cup a week in roses and everything else I grow....particularly in pots and baskets....certainly can't hurt the plant....when I worked in greenhouses one of my jobs was to be sure that the epsom salts got delivered to the right plants....along with growth retardants, etc.

So would you all think this looks like the signs of magnesium deficiency?! We wondered what was wrong with it but now I'm pretty sure I know!

It's just now leafing out so should I wait or give it a little dose now? I'll have to put it on a regular regimen, along with some other bushes that I have that get like this.

guess I should say that this is one of my Shumard red oaks.

This message was edited Apr 9, 2007 11:17 PM

Since your previous post said your soil was very high alkaline you don't have anything to loose and a lot to gain. Since it is a tree I would broadcast rather heavily all along the outer edges so you hit the feeder roots. I'm sure Josephine could be more specific. Same thing happened with a neighbors red oak some years ago and he used chelated iron. Took a while but it finally turned green. Did not know about ES at the time. I have used it on absolutely everthing this year and the results speak for themselves. The Japanese Maple has been in the same place for 3 years and only after using ES did it turn red for the first time. Check some of the links above and they give a more difinitive scientific explanation.

Paige,
From the photo, the tree looks chlorotic. Red Oaks can't stand wet feet. It will grow in soil from heavy clay to sandy soil as long as it is well drained. Sometimes, other oak trees are sold as Shumard Red Oaks: Pin Oaks, cross-bred red oaks (red oaks hybridize easily), northern red oaks. These oaks need acidic soil and will never grow well in alkaline soil. This article by Howard Garrett has good things to say about the Shumard oak. Look down at the Problems and Insight.
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=879
If the tree is chlorotic, you will have to treat it will chelated iron. Try to get the tree identified. If it's the real Shumard, the chelated iron should correct the problem.

One last thing, red oaks are very susceptible to oak wilt. Avoid pruning or breaking the bark when the beetles are most active.

Thanks Betty...I remember researching chlorosis last year but I'm more leary of putting out iron than Epsom salt. (might have something to do with our soil test results...I'll check)

We did a lot of research before buying the trees, including listening to Howard and reading thru all of his books. The tags on the trees said they were Shumard, which are supposed to do well in alkaline soils. I have heard that they cross breed very easily but I'm not real concerned with that. I'm not getting rid of the trees and can't do anything about my clay soil, although we did rent an aerator a few weeks ago.

They have actually done well but this one had the yellowing problem last year. This is actually the tree that has recently had a problem oozing something. (you replied on that thread...but I didn't have a tree die..?) Since then I have removed all the grass around the tree, uncovered the flare and doctored it with Tree Trunk Goop. Next step is the Sick Tree treatment.

I did use epsom salts on my salvias this year (first time). In hindsight, from what I've read, maybe I shouldn't have---I've read that you shouldn't use epsom salts on sage and other herbs.

However, I have seen great results.

I first made a batch of alfalfa tea (eight cups of alfalfa pellets added to twenty gallons of water) I let this brew for five days with stirring on days 3 and five.
I then added 2.5 cups of epsom salts to the mixture (relatively low/weak epsom salt dilution).

I then put the tea in watering cans and fed all my already blooming plants.

The plants all look great (including the salvia). Will post a picture when I get home.
I don't know if this was from the tea or epsom salts (probably a bit of both)

Again, in hindsight, I maybe shouldn't have used it on the salvia.


-Richard

This message was edited Apr 10, 2007 11:46 AM

Had Texas Urban Forestry out last year as two 50' oak trees died in a neighbors yard. Had been there for over 30 years and died literally over night. The final diagnosis was....drum roll......weed & feed fertilizer. Because of the long drought and the residents had not watered deeply the trees were already stressed and the roots had uncharacteristically come too close to the surface. Everyone was freightened that we had an epidemic of oak wilt and almost every yard in DeSoto, TX has a red oak or two. Paige,
not thinking you did the same.....just wanted others who might read this thread to be very careful with any kind of weed killer. We are 98% organic and the grass is so thick we don't have weeds.
PS
Know I'm beginning to wear everyone out with ES. Have a live oak that has been struggling to grow for 3 years.....guess what......Since fed with ES only 6 weeks ago it has already doubled it's size. Forgot to mention...Lady Banksia has been here for 3 years and this is the first time for it to bloom. See why I feel like I have stumbled into the Twilight Zone?

Well, darn. Got the wrong picture again and when it is on preview I don't know how to delete it without the whole message with it. Try once again for roses.

The following is Rachel Reed's alfalfa tea recipe with epsom salts (from Daves Garden)
ALFALFA TEA

32 GALLON TRASH CAN
10 CUPS ALFALFA PELLETS (obtained from feed stores)
1 CUP EPSOM SALTS
1 CUP FISH EMULSION

here is the link
http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/2294/

This message was edited Apr 10, 2007 11:58 AM

Oh my gosh! What is that plant in the last picture? Roses? I've never seen a tree like that. It's absolutely spectacular!

I had read a few other posts about epsom salt, but after reading this one yesterday I decided to just jump right in and do it! I grabbed a carton of ES I had and sprinkled all over my roses and my oleanders which are not doing so well. I was thinking everything was suffering because the front of the house doesn't get too much sunlight. However, I've seen plants in very filtered sun still look nice. I'm hoping if I enrich the soil more since it is very clay-like, then they will do better! Thanks for sharing and giving me that push!

Becky

Oh no, no weed & feed here! My dh does use Scott's twice a year, no weed killer, because our new lawn(about 4 years ago) was not growing in this clay/subsoil and nearly died trying to use only organics. We use organic products everywhere else and other things in the yard like dry molasses and occassionally corn gluten meal. I have not specifically fertilized the trees, other than a dose of Garrett juice or so and some compost.

The tree couldn't have been suffering from wet feet either since we've suffered thru the drought too. The pic was taken last year. Funny thing is that I noticed the yellowing problem with a neighbor down the street's Red Oaks and then saw several in town like it. The neighbor across the street works for the city (parks dept) and said they were wondering why some of their trees were that color too.