do seedlings get transplanted up to their first true leaves?

Hi critter...I think we just said the same thing. My book recommended "starter mix" not potting "soil".
I have Ferry Morse Seed Starter Mix and I have Garden Expert Perfect Mix. Which should I use?
And which should I use for cuttings?
Thanks critter for your advice!

Sorry, your confusion "???" seemed to be about the use of the term "potting soil" as opposed to a soil-less mix. It seems likely that "starter medium" would refer to a peat type mix, but I'm not sure, so I just referenced DeBaggio instead. He's my guru, especially when it comes to growing herbs!

I'm not familiar with either of those mixes, but any well-draining mix should work fine... most have perlite and/or vemiculite added to improve drainage, and I often add extra perlite depending on what I'm doing. I like finer mixes for starting seeds, but coarser mixes (which Miracle Gro seems to be in the last couple of years) are great for larger containers and probably fine for rooting cuttings also.

c- I love Pro Mix too, but have also tried Miracle Gro and now Bayer. I think all these would be fine for seedlings. or for starting seeds.

Ok...now I get it. So, I 'm going to use the Ferry Morse Seed Starter Mix for my germination because it's a finer mix than the Garden Expert Perfect Mix, which I will use for the transfer of seedlings to a pot, as well as my cuttings.

You guys are awesome...always here when I need you!
Ping

This is a great thread for a newbie like myself, thanks so much everyone. I have a question that is similar to some of the above. I cheated a little and placed my seeds with a moist paper towel in a plastic baggie. Then I placed the baggie on a heating pad and covered with a towel. This allowed me to see what seeds germinated. I then transplanted into a flat with seed starting mix. There are 72 spaces per flat. Sorry I can't rememebr the size. I am assuming that I need to transplant to a larger pot. But what size?

Germinated and growing:
tomatoes
bell peppers
hot peppers
snow-in-summer
gaillardia
marigold

Also you recommend starting some slower growing perrenials now and then planting out in the fall for my zone 5?

Sounds like a great start. I would put one or two of your sprouted seeds in each compartment. (two, if you want to help ensure that you have at least one nice plant per cell, but one's fine , not too likely it wouldn't do well.) Your listed plants, I would expect to be fine there until time for the gasrden, no need to pot up from there.
Picture shows some of my seeds started en masse in small pot, and some have been divided into six packs.

I'll defer to someone else on the perennial question.

I transplant tomato and pepper seedlings when they get their first true leaves, and I put them into deep cell packs (36 to a flat) that are about the same as a 2 inch pot. Peppers get an 8-10 week head start, and tomatoes get a 6-8 week start... There's a great thread on Carolyn's method of starting tomatoes from seed, look for a link in the resource sticky thread at the top of the tomato forum.

Your marigolds etc. might be OK in the 72 cell flats, although they'll be a bit rootbound by planting-out time, and you might end up needing to up-pot them. I generally start flowers 6-8 weeks ahead and put them into 48 cell flats... but I know some folks who use the 72 cell ones to save space, and it seems to work out fine for them.

Sally, Your cells look like 36s -- nice size, BTW, where'd you get them? and Cabriamos says s/he has 72s -- those are the really little ones. 72 cells per 10" x 20" flat.

Cabriamos, So much depends on when you put them out and how big they are now, but I would put them all into something bigger as soon as they outgrow the cells, unless the Marigold is a little dwarf variety, in which case it could probably stay in the little cells. I would say you recognize them outgrowing their cells when the foliage of one plant is rubbing against another and when the cells just look too little for the plants. Just gently squeeze the bottom of the cell and remove a plant to see what those roots are doing...if you see roots all up and down the plug, then you decide if it's time to replant into something bigger or put them outside.

Tomatoes would appreciate being planted way deep when you transplant. They make a 4" pot that is about 6" deep, and fits a flat-size tray, but I'm not real sure where you'd buy one flat/set. I have one from somewhere, so I know they are available, I just can't recall where it came from.

The only Snow in Summer I know is this one: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/728. As soon as it fills the cell, it can get planted out and I don't think you need to move it to another pot unless you want to baby it.

In general, you want to keep those roots growing, letting them just hit the pot walls, and then upgrade them to more deluxe accomodations. Keep in mind that you do not want to do more damage to them while checking them for root development than they'd have being squeezed into a teny tiny cell. ! LOL!

On the Perennials -- it depends, mostly on what kinds they are. If you want to list them, I'm sure somebody on here will have grown them before and can assist, because there are a lot of variables. As a general rule, yes, start them now, but only if you are prepared to water them June-Aug or even Sept. Please remember that smaller pots dry out much, much faster than bigger ones, and get them moved into bigger pots as soon as feasible. Daily watering when temps are in the high 80s and 90s and there hasn't been rain for a week will definitely be required, and you'll need a nice spray wand. If you are in town with some trees and shelter they won't need an overhead screen or sun shade, but if you are in a very open situation, they might need some overhead shade, too.

I did a boatload of perennials by Wintersowing this year. I had never done it before but I kept getting seeds in swaps, so I planted them. I will either have so many plants I won't know what to do with them or I will barely eek by with one of everything -- not sure, but the rainy forecast is making me wonder if it will work!

HTH,
Suzy
edited - Criter I was writing this when you wrote & sent your reply and didn't see it until I posted.

This message was edited Mar 23, 2007 12:05 PM

Suzy, I think you're probably right about the 72 cell inserts being too cramped... I've only used them to start little plugs of lettuce or chard, not for anything I was going to grow on for more than 2-4 weeks.

Everyone has different ways of doing things, but Carolyn's methods work great for me... and she recommends only transplanting tomato seedlings once before planting them out... she uses 2 inch pots for them, which is good to know if space under lights is limited.

Suzy is more experienced/knowledgeable than me, I can tell. Listen to her! I wasn't paying attention to the size of cells- 72 would be pretty small. Mine are 48's, I believe; each section is 1 1/2 by2 1/2 and eight packs fit in a tray. I got them from my shed : ^) where they were left after I planted fall pansies, and I did disinfect them.
I have two things, nicotiana and tithonia, which are growing like MAD and overlapping their edges, but pansies are OK so far. It does come down to if it fits, likeSuzy said.

I new here, and my first language is danish. Right now I'm translating a report to english, but don't know the right word for when a seed is sprouting. I need to know if you know what I mean when I write 'root sprout', and shat do you call the sprout that goes upward and break the soil-surface? In danish we do say the upward going sprout has a neck. Do you use that term?

Ornans

Hello Ornans, a very warm welcome to you.

similar to the Danish word spire perhaps?

seed is sprouting = germinating
seed has sprouted = germinated

ger·mi·nate
verb, -nat·ed, -nat·ing.
–verb (used without object)
1. to begin to grow or develop.
2. Botany.
a. to develop into a plant or individual, as a seed, spore, or bulb.
b. to put forth shoots; sprout; pullulate.
3. to come into existence; begin.
–verb (used with object)
4. to cause to develop; produce.
5. to cause to come into existence; create.

But ornans makes an interesting point: is there a different word for when the new root appears, as to when the new leaves appear?

Nice page with good illustrations

http://www.seedbiology.de/germination.asp#germination1

To the best of my knowledge, germination begins with the emergence of the first root for most plants. The appearance of cotyledon is generally after germination has occurred.

The word sprouting is a synonym for germinating. To sprout does not necessarily mean the seed has generated vegetative growth in addition to generating a root but the two can occur concurrently.

I would say that the upward sprouting part is often called the "shoot'

I planted my seeds in miracle grow potting soil. Did I really mess up or do you think it will be okay?
I swear, I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have you guys. I know you get sick of seeing my name. "There she is again!!)
I just have so many questions, I really want to grow everything and not buy plants. I will be so proud if it works.
That is , if the Miracle Grow doesn't ruin them

Lorraine...I too am new at growing from seed..Although MG is good, after some issues I had last year I thought I would try with a true "starter" mix because it's lighter. My seeds are germinating much faster this year, the bag I bought at Lowes for the starter mix is made by Ferris Morse and was about $3.50 a bag, each bag started two full trays (72 plants each) I have 8 trays started now and the first 3 I did on 1-11 I have pics up on my blog if you click on my name you can find them and within the first few days I had several germinating, now 10 days later I am going to have to get ready to pot up my cardinal vines, zinnias, asters, centaurea and others...One thing I have done differently this year is misting the plants instead of watering them and this seemed to really do the trick with helping me not to over hydrate...my hand is about as heavy as my lead foot! LOL Today was the first day I truly watered them since starting them and like I said earlier I am going to pot up 3 trays tomorrow...I hope this info helps, I might not know much but what I do know I would love to share so feel free to dmail if you have any other questions!

Deanna