Jiffy Mini-Greenhouse for starting seeds

the vinca are the summer annuals

Every year I buy flowers for my porch, but decided to start seeds this year instead. I was inspired after buying a pack of Forget-Me-Nots from Dollar Tree a few weeks ago. I'm in an apartment, so my space is somewhat limited, but here's my terrarium with two Jiffy greenhouses! I planted them on Friday, and just noticed the sprouts tonight. For those more experienced, how tall do they need to be before I remove the lids? Thank you!

I would pop the lid as soon as anything green emerges form the soil.

Especially inside a terrarium, you'll be fighting excess humidity, which encourages 'damping off' - what happens when the soil surface stays too moist, encouraging fungus that can attack seedling stems right at the surface of the soil.

Drier soil surface, drier air, moving air, watering less: all those help avoid damping off. Got a small fan ? Sprinkle something on top of the soil that will dry out faster, like grit, crushed rock, bark chunks or Perlite?

Brighter lights will encourage the seedlings to mature faster than the fungus can attack them.

Some people sprinkle cinnamon to discourage soil surface fungus. Or water only with chamomile tea. Or diluted hydrogen peroxide (one-three ounces of 3% drugstore peroxide per quart of water).

My two biggest sins are over-watering, and leaving seedlings in the starting container too long. Probably you could "prick them out" and "pot them up" as soon as they have 1-2 pairs of "real" leaves. The very first pair of simple, rounded, "seedling" leaves don't count.

These are the pictures of my seedlings that I sowed and use the baseboard heat as my heating mat .(laugh)

I have decided to go green and recycle as much as I could so I recycled Dunkin Doughnut coffee cups since my daughter buys on the weekends. I use them under my seedling cups to with water to water the seedlings

Great idea!

I am really concerned about not seeing any sprouts from any of the seeds that I planted in the 72 cell Jiffy greenhouse, nor the seed that I planted in my homemade newspaper pots. This is the first year that I have increased the number of plants that I'm trying to start. I did a test run over a month ago by planting some left over seed from Juliet cherry tomatoes that I grew last year, plus some seed that I saved from bell, cayenne, and jalapeno plants that I also grew last year. I had great success with starting those seed, so I ordered seed online from Park Seed and tomatofest.com. This is the first time that I ordered costlier seed from what I figure are quality seed suppliers. I started my seeds February 24th and as of today, March 10th, I do not see any sprouts yet. This is the first time that I am using a Hydrofarm heating mat, too, which by all accounts, should have accelerated the germination process. I set the seed per instructions in non-soil starting mix. Some of these seeds should have sprouted within days, especially with using the heating mat. An example of one of the things I'm trying to start for the first time ever is Organic Clemson Spineless 80 Okra Seeds. I soaked them for a day, then planted them as per instructions about an inch deep in starting mix in a homemade newspaper pot. I moistened the starting mix before putting it into the pots and tamped it down a little to remove any air pockets, as I had read that I should do. I placed each pot in a bowl. I have made sure that all of these has stayed moist, checking them each day. The heating mat is on the floor (floor is above a crawlspace, not concrete) and the bed flat and bowls are sitting on that. I have also started peppers in the same fashion, except without pre-soaking the seed. The house is kept very warm, about 72 degrees. In the 72 cells, I have set cucumber, squash, heirloom tomatoes, marigold, and lavender. I see only two possibilities here. Either I am doing something horribly wrong all of a sudden or the seed is faulty. I would think that I have provided ideal conditions for germination. I am perplexed.

Be patient...you might see something in a week or two...

Although on the whole I've been successful at starting many different kinds of seeds, every year there are some disappointments. I keep experimenting until I find just the right set of circumstances for those that fail. Here are a few things you might consider trying differently:

If your house is that warm, you probably don't need the heat mat. Also, do you have a thermostat on the mat? It may get too hot.

I usually plant my seeds 1/4" deep or less when starting indoors. I don't want them to work too hard to get to the light and start growing. However, I do mostly annual and perennial flowers, not so many vegetables, so that may not apply.

Are you using a plastic dome over the flat? This works as a humidifier, keeping the top layer of soil moist, and the seeds need moisture to germinate.

What mix are you using? I had trouble this year with Miracle Grow because it's too dense for some things that require good drainage- there's a fine line between enough moisture and too much.

Most likely you will get some sprouts soon, but some things may not show up. Tomatoes are usually not too fussy and fairly quick, so I'm surprised you haven't seen those yet.

If you're really worried you might try digging down carefully in a cell or two to see if you find any evidence of growth.

Good luck!

Pam

Thank you all for your input and encouragement. For the homemade newspaper pots, I'm using a starting mix by American Seed simply called Starting Mix. It's a mixture of sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, and other ingredients. It's not clear what those "other" ingredients are. I wet this before putting it into the pots. The Jiffy Greenhouse was purchased this year when Walmart first put garden stuff out. Yes, I am using the dome that came with the kit. I have successfully started some Burpee herb seed (basil and oregano) in some left over Jiffy pellets that I did not use in the previous couple of years. I also had good success with some cilantro grown from coriander seed that I saved from cilantro that I'd grown a couple of years ago.

I tried leaving the heating mat turned off for a few days, too. I do not have a thermostat on it. I may need to get one of those. It's a Hydrofarm heating mat. I just looked at the information printed on it and it indicated that it raises the temperature 10 to 20 degrees above the ambient temperature, so that would be between about 82 to 92 degrees. I've turned it off, because that might be too warm. It is laying on a couple of layers of towels directly on the floor though and room temperatures are going to be lower there as opposed to the rest of the room, I think.

I would think the tomatoes and peppers, which like really warm temperatures, would have done something.

The okra does require the inch depth on the instructions, most of the others I planted 1/4 inch deep and some 1/8 inch deep.

I have thought about digging down in a few of the cells to probe for signs of growth. I am going to call the horticulturist today at Park Seed, where I purchased most of the seed, except the heirloom tomato seed. I can post what the horticulturist instructs me to do.

I agree that the mat may have applied too much heat.

I also have a low opinion of Parks, BUT I only bought from them during my first year or two of seed starting, so the failures might have all been my fault.

Do you have enough seeds to start an extra tray as insurance?

Did you see water drops on the humidity dome, or only a little mist? I use that to gauge 'wetness'.

- I always think my soil is too wet if the dome collects big visible DROPS of water.

- Clear or "merely foggy" means the soil is too dry, or the dome is warmer than the soil (lights are warm & floor is cold).

- "Seattle weather", meaning "some mist almost all the time", suggests to me that my mix is close to the right wetness.

On the other hand, a heat mat that gets to 80-85 will drive water from the soil to the dome even if the soil is on the dry side (it's trying to escape!)

Better to be a little on the dry side than soggy, because too much water in the mix means too little air, and rotting seeds. Seeds and roots need to breath, or they die.

I really liked your idea of a "practice run" with extra seeds.

I agree that the mat may have applied too much heat.

I also have a low opinion of Parks, BUT I only bought from them during my first year or two of seed starting, so the failures might have all been my fault.

Do you have enough seeds to start an extra tray as insurance?

Did you see water drops on the humidity dome, or only a little mist? I use that to gauge 'wetness'.

- I always think my soil is too wet if the dome collects big visible DROPS of water.

- Clear or "merely foggy" means the soil is too dry, or the dome is warmer than the soil (lights are warm & floor is cold).

- "Seattle weather", meaning "some mist almost all the time", suggests to me that my mix is close to the right wetness.

On the other hand, a heat mat that gets to 80-85 will drive water from the soil to the dome even if the soil is on the dry side (it's trying to escape!)

Better to be a little on the dry side than soggy, because too much water in the mix means too little air, and rotting seeds. Seeds and roots need to breath, or they die.

I find Parks no better or worse than the other mainstream suppliers. It's unlikely that all their seeds would be NG. I'm inclined to think the heat may be the problem, nothing else seems out of the ordinary.

After a long hiatus from seed-starting, I started again in a different (colder) zone with less ambient indoor light. I lost 90% to damp-off. It was quite a shock, I can tell you! But since then I've added heat and lights, peroxide for fungus and cinnamon for gnats, and I have a terrific success rate. Still, as I mentioned before, there are always at least a couple of recalcitrants, and I keep learning more specialized techniques for those plants.

So don't be discouraged, just keep trying things until you find your own magic formula for your conditions. It's sooooooo rewarding!

Good luck,

Pam

Perhaps one big factor is how fast the seedlings are growing, and how vigorous they are, for the first few days or a week. They seem to be most vulnerable to soil fungus when very young. Maybe older stems have better defenses.

Maybe if they are growing fast, they are vulnerable for a shorter period.
Or, "vigor" lets them fight off fungus better.

I'm just speculating.

Thanks, all! I talked to Parks' horticulturist earlier today and he said that it didn't seem like I did anything extremely damaging to the seeds, but suggested either turning off the heat mat or getting a thermostat for it, because it was probably too much heat. The dome had mostly misty, small drops and some larger drops. Since turning off the heat mat, there are just misty droplets.

*I think RickCorey_WA is correct about too much heat probably driving the water out of the cells too fast. Hopefully, I have that in check now that the mat is off.* Thank you for your wetness monitoring suggestions, too, according to the kind of condensation on the dome.

After talking to the horticulturist, he said that the cucumbers, squash, and okra should have done something by now, so he referred me to customer service for replacement seeds. I did not get the tomato seeds from them, so I will have to deal with tomatofest.com if those don't do anything. Parks was nice about handling the problem, but I'll give some thought about ordering from them again. I wouldn't think that all of the seed that they sold me would be NG, either, so I'll chalk that up to a learning experience on my part.

I had used all of the squash seed from the pack, since it was a medley pack of four different kinds and I couldn't tell which seeds were which and I want to grow some of each kind. I don't think that I will buy medley packs again, since I don't want to plant a whole pack of seed. I don't need that many plants. The replacement pack will provide me with the insurance of another try at it. I still have some cucumber and okra seeds to try again. I'm going to give the current plantings, with the heat mat turned off, another 3 or 4 days to see if they still do something. The horticulturist told me to give the peppers another 3 or 4 days to see if any sprout. If they don't, he said I can get replacement seed for them.

Thanks Pfg for the encouragement! I learn something new each day. It is so very rewarding to learn to grow your own plants from seed and become successful at it!

Another thing that I'm doing now that I have learned here is using the peroxide water mixture. I had never heard of that before and it sounds like a good fungus preventative!

Thank you, HG2!

By the way, you can have variety without buying "mixes" or "medleys".

Buy a big pack of each thing you want, then save the unused seeds somewhere cool and dry and well-labelled. Most seed types will still germinate well 3-5 years later (not all species).

Then trade the extra seeds with people, and wind up with 4-5 times as much variety!

We have a seed trading forum, and there are periodic or ongoing swaps and round-robins where seed-savers are very generous.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/trading/all/

The only problems are finding the exact seeds you're looking for, and the cost of postage. Many postal centers use high-speed sortation machines with rollers that crush regular First Class Letter envelopes. Bubble wrap in the envelope may save your seeds, but if the envelope is too irregular, it MIGHT clog the crusher and tear up a bunch of envelopes.

My Post Office is very srious about the First Class letter rule "less than 1/4" thick and uniform thickness".

A bubble mailer is safe, but postage on those is now up to $2.07 for the first 3 ounces. Bubble mailers are First Class parcels unless they're acceptable as a "Flat" or "Large Envelope" (over 11.5" x 6.2" wide, and 1/4" to 3/4" thick. Those are $0.92, $1.12 or $1.32 for 1, 2 or 3 ounces. (But I didn't think to buy 7"x12" bubble mailers!

Thanks, Rick, for the seed saving/trading idea and invitation to that forum! So helpful! If I find myself with more seed than I can use, I'll check it out. I have had no problem using seed from a few years back.

I have some 6" x 9" bubble mailers that I bought from Walmart, Duck brand. Scotch also makes some that size. Those would probably be fine to mail seed. I just did a google search and found that 4" x 6" bubble mailers can also be purchased.

>> 6" x 9" bubble mailers ... probably be fine to mail seed

Totally!

I obsess on trying to pad an envelope less than 1/4" thick, with very uniform thickness and no floppiness, so it won't jam "the crusher". I would rather spend 46 cents than $1.12 or $2.07!

A friend worked on the original post office sortation automation, and the idea of high-speed jams made him flinch and go pale. He said the speeds were so high that even if the software and electronics detected the jam at time zero and immediately applied the brakes, the rollers could not be stopped before 100 or more envelopes were jammed tight into a big hard ball.

Rick, a high-speed jam does bring about a gruesome visual in my mind, too. I wonder if the post office processes bubble mailers on the same track as envelopes. Seems like it couldn't be accommodated the same way. The seed swap idea is great and we definitely would want to receive undamaged seed. I'm still watching and waiting for signs of sprouts in my jiffy greenhouse. I'll give it another couple of days before I start probing and digging into the cells.

>> I wonder if the post office processes bubble mailers on the same track as envelopes. Seems like it couldn't

You're right: "parcels" like bubble mailers have different processing. I thin k that "Flats" (large envelopes) also have their own set rollers.

Several different PO clerks all told me the same thing: it doesn't help to mark a regular envelope or anything else "HAND-CANCEL ONLY", not even if you pay the 20-cent "non-machinable surcharge". One clarified that the only way to keep something out of the rollers is for it to be OBVIOUSLY too big to fit, like a bubble mailer.

I was told: "If they CAN jam it into the 1/4" rollers, they will try to, because it's easier for them." So I assume the clerks who push things into the rollers, or load that hopper, or whatever, are NOT the same ones who have to un-jam the mess it causes.

Sometimes I receive a regular envelope with small seeds and a thin piece of bubble wrap. Usually some of the bubbles have been popped, and sometimes the whole piece of bubble wrap is squished flat. Small seeds are usually not visibly crushed, but I have seen the dents they made in the soft plastic Ziploc bag they were in.

I think the people who have had success sending seeds in regular thin envelopes ("First Class Letter") must live somewhere without a high-speed sortation/crusher in the outgoing path.

Rick, one thing that can be tried is to add several "peanuts" packing material or add a layer of bubble wrap around the seed, then put it in the bubble mailer. Maybe that would deter any mail handler from trying to run it through the 1/4" rollers and shouldn't make too much of a difference on the cost of postage. Just a thought. :)

>> add several "peanuts" packing material or add a layer of bubble wrap around the seed, then put it in the bubble mailer. Maybe that would deter any mail handler from trying to run it through the 1/4" rollers

I might try that next time I have a very thin mailer, but most of my bubble mailers are quite thick by PO standards. I think the horror stories about jamming rollers mostly come from things slightly over or under 1/4", but irregular or squishy.

Usually, once I'm sending out a mailer to some, I try to pack it with lots of spare seeds, especially those I've saved and have in excess. If I'm already paying the PO for three ounces, why just send one ounce? And then they would be UNABLE to force it into the rollers even if they ran over it with a forklift, first!

On the other hand, for a while I thought about going the other way : I bought some very thin bubble mailers (UNDER 1/4" thick), and thought I would try to get them accepted for 66 cents as a First Class Letter plus "non-machinable surcharge".

By their rules, they should theoretically have had to to accept it, but I'm thinking the clerks might be smart enough not to push it into The Crusher. "Might be smart enough" was the phrase that keeps me from trying it, because they would have be smart enough, and also not too lazy!

Probably better to just pay the $2.

>>And then they would be UNABLE to force it into the rollers even if they ran over it with a forklift, first!

Don't know why it did not post all of my reply, but I'll try again.......

LOLz, Rick. Extra seed in the pack is a nice bonus and a great way to bulk up the mailer!

Saving seed is an obsession, even more than the rest of gardening.

My neighbor like "neat and tidy" so I don't think she appreciates my leaving plants standing until they turn brown and dry and the seed pods start to open!

Of course, I don't appreciate the way she chopped down everything alive on her property, including flowering azaleas and two healthy trees and many bushes. It's neat and tidy now - and only slightly greener than her driveway!

Hi, I'm a newbie to the fourm and have a question about mini greenhouses. We bought two from Menards today but are worried they aren't heavy enough to hold up against spring winds here in Zone 5. Is it best to use them on a southern wall with protection from a house/building? They are 27"w x 19"d x 63"h with clear plastic covers that zip in the front for opening. Big Hubby Man is putting 4" posts in the ground behind our garden and wants to zip tie the frame to the posts for stability but that means we must poke small holes through the plastic cover. It also means there is less protection from the wind since there isn't a building behind them. What has been your experience with using these mini-greenhouses out it the open? Has anyone tried using tent stakes to stabilize the frames? Our seedlings aren't ready to move outside yet, but they will be before long! Thanks for any advice!

First time ever trying this. Just bought 72 plant Professional Greenhouse. Directions state: add warm water & when pellets are fully expanded pour off excess water, how long does it take for pellets to fully expand? Thanks

It takes no time at all, they puff up right away. But be careful the pellets don't fall sideways in the cell. The planting medium will expand into the sides of the cell and compact. It is then very difficult to to loosen so you can plant.

Good luck!

Pam