It sometimes takes a few weeks for adjustment problems to show up with new plants... I'll bet that's what has happened... I know when I get plants from Allison, they look gorgeous for a couple of weeks and then some of them just can't take life in Maryland and have problems for a while... but they generally become resigned to no longer living in Florida and start looking better again! I've got a little mini I was looking at this morning -- very healthy, but suckering like it's a trailer (and it's not LOL) -- I think it's nearly ready to have me strip a few suckers from it and repot it...
Good luck and PLMK (please let me know) what happens!
I hope I don't have mites ;-(
Yes this is so true Jill. Plus I fount every season my plants grew different. They did like to bloom more when it was cooler :)) Watering everything changed from Spring, Summer, Winter and so on !
Everyone's growing is different.
I think on AVSA one of the sights talks about how you buy a beautiful plant all in bloom from a Nursery and when it stops blooming why you can't get it to bloom anymore and why it just might look plain ole sick yuk :((
The article goes into much detail but it all boils down to growing differences .
Yes you don't need to look for DON'T continue to look for cultural problems to fix :))( If this is not what you want to do) But sense you are shipping plants out tomorrow to your local local county extension there is no reason you can not help your babies in isolation ! And there is so much help on line from Vendors and long time growers
books and more to help us does not hurt to give your babies in isolation a little tender loving care while you are waiting !
I just realized you said you were sending "sample plants" not "plant samples".... I'm thinking that they probably just need a leaf or two from the crown to check, not the whole plant, so you might call them and ask about that. The plants I sent you were 9 to 12 months old, so I'd hate to see them trashed if it's not necessary. I would at least suggest taking some outer leaves from the plants if you're sending the whole plant... that way, you'll be able to put the leaves down and eventually have another plant.
Oh, and if 'Biscayne Trail' is one with a dead looking center, don't worry about the crown damage, as this will just encourage suckering, which is what you want with a trailer anyway. Crown damage has the same effect as pinching out the crown, which is something that folks do to encourage trailers to start branching.
I know when I've sent plants in I had to send soil not just foliage and it is good to send the whole plants for them to check. So yes if you can save a leaf or two. I really feel and understand what Jill is saying if you can help your babies in isolation and give them speical care like you are and save them (and praying you don't have mites) I know your babies will grow out so nice and you'll have pretty flowers soon !
And trailers yes take the crown off and you get more crowns and a nice trailing plant ! Oh their fun !
Crowns can be lost beacasue of damage and beacasue of varieity and can grow back healthy !
We are all thinking positive and hoping for the best for your plants ! Good Luck !
Hi guys, just putting an update here. I mailed 2 suspect plants yesterday to my county extension (5.00 ea plant -- what happened to free? Not in NY). Anyway, Critter - they prefer entire plants if possible because then they can check the soil, roots, stems, everything. I didn't want to send the whole plants but I picked 2 that looked the worsed and send those. I kept a few leaves of them so if they are clean I will hopefully have more of them again.
I'll let you all know when I hear back.
Thanks again for all the help, suggestions and support.
Maureen
Good Luck ! And I am surprised they are charging ?? Only in NY. Even on Steve's and other sights mention how they do it free. I am happy you can do this .
Good maureen....why guess and wonder when you can know for sure so easily. All the best to you however it turns out.
Just a few things we can do to help prevent our plants being bothered by pest and fungus, virus.
Better safe practices than sorry .
Good To do when ever getting new plants is to isolate .
Interesting information :)
The Importance of Isolation
http://groups.msn.com/TheVioletVoiceTestSite/isolation.msnw
I always learned thru life and at local Av group meetings and reading :))
Most improtant cleanliness of the plant room, Pots, tools, trays ,shelves and the plants themselves will help to prevent these insects
Isolation always ! Careful inspect all plant material new and old
I always wash and Disinfect all areas of plants stands, tools, pots, stands, trays
Insects are also spread by our hands , equipment .
I'm glad you're having them checked, and I will sure be keeping my fingers crossed! It'll probably have to wait until the new year, but I think I'll be sending in some samples myself, just for peace of mind and to keep me from checking and re-checking my plants! Needless to say, it would be my worst plant trading nightmare to discover that I'd sent somebody mites (eeek!!!), but if there are mites on those plants, please do let me know right away!
All my new plants from spring trades & purchases have been on downstairs shelves, and Maureen's plantlets were propagated upstairs... so even if a problem was introduced, it's unlikely to have migrated upstairs, but of course anything is possible with pests! I don't mean to sound overly defensive or like I'm in total denial, but I've thought through this again and again, trying to figure out what was up with my plants this summer, and I just don't think it's mites. I sure hope I'm not wrong! LOL
I'm praying your wrong too Jill :)) And for Maureen also. They check for everything too ! Not just mites. A friend they even told her when PH was off. Everything will work out OK wither way so don't feel bad or worry . :))
Bad news everyone. Just got the report mailed to me, the found cyclamen mites on the 2 samples I sent. I have to go home and throw my babies out.
Thanks for everyones support and help.
Maureen sorry. Best throw all away to be safe :(( Anything tool, trays, anything soak in extra strong bleach and hot water for hours.
I am so sorry.
Very important everyone when ever getting a new plant no mater where you get it from " leaves too " Please isoale 3 months or more/
Oh Maureen that is truly heartbreaking news : ( My heart goes out to you. I am sure you are not looking forward to the gutwrenching task of throwing them all out. I am almost in tears just thinking about it. I will be happy to do whatever I can to help you replace some in the spring.Just let me know.
Thanks Allison for bringing home the point once again how terribly important isolation of new plants is.I feel that is THE most important thing to remember.
Oh, Marueen, I am so very sorry! Needless to say, I'll be checking my plants again -- and having them checked "professionally" over the holidays also. Would you mind letting me know which ones you had sent? I'll want to pay particular attention to getting samples from the tray/shelf that those came from. Also, please let me know what variety of mites they found if they mentioned it. I am just horrified at the idea that I might have sent them to you... I promise, I do check my plants regularly (with a magnifier), but maybe they just hid themselves too well.
HI Allison and Cedar. I was really upset when I opened the email from the cooperative extension. I was at the office so couldn't type a long message. At least now I know for sure so I can take precautions with my other plants (I have 4 a/v's in another area -- I just hope I didn't contaminate them because I did move a few of the sickly plants near the good ones one week because I thought it was the lighting. Anyway, I will watch the 4 remaining plants here and keep them away from any new ones I may get (of all times of the year -- I can't even get more now because the weather is too iffy for shipping). Also, I have a bunch of babies in baggies that I'm sure didn't get infected so I have those to keep my happy...plus I just remembered I have some plantlets and leaves in the office which should also be clean. Cedar, that was very nice of you to offer to help me come spring. If come spring you have some to share, that would be so great.
The good news is that I got my plant stand today.....Yippee...
Hi Critter. They believe it was cyclamen mites. They found mites in the crevices of the dead leaves in the center. I sent them what I think was winnie the pooh -- and a pretty trailer. Let me look at the pic I posted, I think the trailer is in the pic. BRB.
OK, I sent them the plants in the pic - one on the top and the bottom left. - Maybe not winnite the pooh after all. I just remember what they looked like more than the names.
Please don't worry, they may have been on some of the house plants that I have already. I know for sure the plants you sent me were healthy and thriving when I got them from you. When we deal with living plants this can happen anytime.
Oh, I'm worried! I just posted a new thread to make sure people continue to isolate any plants or leaves they got from me, until I can get my plants checked professionally... I know mites can come from many sources, and that's why any of us can end up with them despite all our precautions. I wish I could say, "oh, you definitely didn't get them from me!" but that's not a claim any of us can make unless we and our plants live in a bubble!
And yep, I think that's 'Winnie the Pooh' and 'Biscayne Trail' in the photo on the left.
Needless to say, I'll help you with replacements also if/when mine get a clean bill of health!
I feel so sad for you Maureen. It has happen to many of the big growers. David Senk wrote about he had Mites . He tried fighting them the natural way but this did not work so he had to turn to Avid.
Gosh a think it was a few years ago Joyce violets had Mites and a person from our local group post on on line group that I could get Avid for her. At the time our local group sold two OZ. for little less than $18.00. So I did and sent it to her. Then everyone wanted it. lol I tried to get some for others but I was told I was not allowed to . Joyce was glad I was able to get it for her.
It can happen to anyone . It's so easy. Hek they hide under your finger nails come in from outside a screen , pet, clorhes , outdoor plants , tools you use...everywhere.
You can have plants for a long time before you notice damage enough to suspect Mites. That's one reason it's important to Isolate for at least 3 months. ven Isolate leaves . Many people have written articles of having very healthy looking plants for a year and not knowing it had some type of pest. I've read cyclamen mites can be the worst and though many people have not easy to destroy enough to get rid of that it's better to throw the plants away :(( Even plants that are not Av's will have to go into isolation as easy as mites can be carried around with you. So very sorry. :((
Other plants I've seen infected with the mite are Episcia, Brugmansia, Columnea, and, of course, Cyclamen. I've read that Hedera can get it, too.
A pity for you, Maureen. At least they are just plants- but best of all- plants that are easily propagated and replaced. Good luck,
Kenton
I did a little search
The life time of Mites.
http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/inter/inmine/Mitesc.html
Out of a several articles I read African violets are damged the most by cyclamen mites
but like Kenton mentioned kill other plants also;
African violets, cyclamen, dahlia, gloxinia, snapdragon, geranium, chrysanthemum, larkspur, begonia, fuchsia, petunia, and New Guinea impatiens are highly susceptible to cyclamen mites, however, cyclamen is injured more than any other plant. This mite is also a pest of strawberry, out-of-doors. This is an introduced species that was first recorded in New York in 1898. It is now generally distributed in greenhouses throughout the country.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Entomology/entfacts/trees/ef422.htm
An other Article all informative
African violets, cyclamen, dahlia, gloxinia, snapdragon, geranium, chrysanthemum, larkspur, begonia, fuchsia, petunia, and New Guinea impatiens are highly susceptible to cyclamen mites, however, cyclamen is injured more than any other plant. This mite is also a pest of strawberry, out-of-doors. This is an introduced species that was first recorded in New York in 1898. It is now generally distributed in greenhouses throughout the country.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Entomology/entfacts/trees/ef422.htm
African violets are most often damaged by cyclamen mites. They also have been found on ivy, snapdragon, chrysanthemum, larkspur, geranium, fuchsia, begonia, petunia, daisy, and azalea. These mites cause tuberous begonia and cyclamen flowers to be discolored or to shrivel or wilt. Infested flowers may not open properly or may not open at all. The mites also cause puckering, crinkling, and curling of leaves; infested leaves become brittle. Infested cyclamen buds fail to open or the flowers are distorted. Broad mites infest African violet, ageratum, azalea, begonia, dahlia, gerbera, gloxinia, ivy, jasmine, impatiens, lantana, marigold, peperomia, snapdragon, verbena, and zinnia. Broad mites damage flowers and foliage of begonia and cyclamen, and bronze the lower leaf surfaces. Their toxic saliva causes twisted, hardened and distorted growth in the terminal of the plant.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/O&T/flowers/note28/note28.html
Critter - thank you for your concern and being so generous.
Violet_treasure - yes, you are correct -- the cooperative extension does NOT recommend trying pesticides on cyclamen mites. They say it is very difficult to get rid of them, and best to dispose of plants. Thanks for all of the nfo on the mite. Such a pesty annoying thing these mites! I hate bugs!!
Kenton - thanks for your support. Yes, plants can be replaced :-)
Maureen
Hey, a ray of sunshine... the orchids that you mentioned are not on the list of plants potentially affected by cyclamin mites!
Yes but it also says all plants can be affected these are just a list of plants most likly. Mites have a long life cycle and female mites may semi-hibernate in the soil until a male host becomes available. There are more females than males and they live longer also.
Their hard to get rid of. You can try to control and get rid of them.
They are harder to get rid of in winter months than warm.
Each female deposits about 90 eggs, of which 80 percent may develop into females. The mites develop through a six-legged larval stage and a dormant nymphal stage with eight legs. All stages of the mite are found on infested plants. Out-of-doors, the adult female overwinters in protected
Mites can easily be moved from infested to noninfested plants on hands and clothing, so always examine infested benches and other hot spots for symptoms of mite infestation
The best treatment is Avid . It's best two treat at least 3-4 times not counting the first treament . Even then plants need to be carefuly checked and watched.
It's not easy to treat them and can be dangerous to health and environment . Must diseases are 50 percent environment and 50 percent inherited. It amazes me a female baby is born with all her eggs.
Everything around us and what we breath, eat not only affects our health now and in the future but affects our children and grand kids too.
Many Pesticides used when I was a kid are no longer safe or legal or sold. I have learned to stay away from them as much as possible .
Precautions can be taken in handling these different PESTICIDE but known of these precautions are 100 percent fool proof ( how do they say it lol )
Life is short materials things don't mater you can't take them with you !
Kenton you did do an excellent job !
Number one thing Isolate !!
maureen how are your plants doing sense your planted test do you think you threw away all affected plants and got rid of them ? Could your plants not seeing a difference be beacause of pest ?
Maureen, I am sorry about your plants. I can send you leaves/plants when it warms up a little. We have been stuck in the house for the weekend with ice on the roads....
Maureen I am so sorry to hear about your plants. I also had plants looking just like yours and I took them to the county extension office and I received the sad news I had cyclamen mites. I treated with Avid(thank you JILL!!) and they seem to be looking alot better,but what a performance....it was cold outside and I took then out one by one and set them in the driveway. I had a febreeze bottle with a good sprayer so I washed that out and added the Avid to it. I wore goggles(that kept fogging up) gloves,long sleeve shirt with saran wrap around the sleeves and a bandana around my face. I took all the flowers and buds off the plants and discarded them before spraying.I sprayed the violets soaking wet and payed attention to soaking the centers. I left them in the sun for until they were almost dry. While they were outside I washed down the plant stand with hot water with 10% bleach solution and wiped the walls around the stand. I then hauled them back in. They are looking better and I think I might have got them. But what a long 4 hour procedure to do. I just didnt want to give them up to the trash bin. Would I do it again.....yeah....LOL
This message was edited Jan 16, 2007 12:41 AM
VG how many times did you treat your plants ? Mite run a cycle in their lives and you will need to treat You will need to spray three times, once every fourth day after the initial treatment. Be sure to that the spray reaches the crown and along the folds of any quilted or scalloped leaves. These are the areas where Cyclamen Mites tend to concentrate.
This message was edited Jan 16, 2007 7:54 AM
I did more reading on Avid. I recall back to David Senk telling me he treated 3,4 times for 4 months before plants were safe to come out of isolation and to be shared and sold worry free. I had paid over $100.00 for two of his plants next day he told me he had mites I did not ask for a refund but waited over 4 months for plants.
A tank mix of Avid and M-Pede(Safer Soap) will need
be applied twice at a three week interval. An established mite infestation
will always have a few females in diapause somewhere in the growth room.
Cyclamen mites can easily be transferred from one location to another by hands, finger nails,clothes,pets,tools ,trays bees, birds,( for outside plants) and equipment, including trays. It may be worthwhile to dip trays in a hot water bath to prevent infestation. Infested nursery plants are the major source of this pest in annual plantings; be sure to use uninfested nursery stock. Isolate all new Nursery plants and plants coming from outside. Treat them first even.
Violet, I remember Kenton (JamesCO) had a thread on his experience treating for mites (successfully!) with Avid, and it did involve multiple treatments.... I'm glad your plants are looking better already, and I hope you can get rid of them entirely!
Here's Kenton's thread, http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/642179/ Looks like he treated weekly for 3 weeks...
And for the curious, no I haven't been the extension office yet... The last of our holiday guests went home just a few days ago! I have a couple of other priorities, and then I'll attend to it... Right now, it's too cold to treat my plants if I get bad news anyway (I don't want to use Avid in the house if I don't have to), so I'm just continuing to be meticulous about isolation etc... As I've said, the plants that looked questionable (but which had no mites that I could find) are looking better rather than worse, so I'm still inclined to believe it was a light/watering issue last year... We'll see how it all works out! If I do have a problem, I'll set up a treatment program with the Avid, and I'll certainly post to let folks know.
Meanwhile -- everybody! -- isolate your new plants, and check plants periodically for problems (with a loupe or other magnifier)... Mites can come from anywhere.
Jill and others :))
Did you read Nancy's story on Kenton's link ?
sarahclarinda
Madison, WI
(Zone 4b)
Aug 22, 2006
11:59 AM
Also an excellent story. Thanks, Nancy and Kenton.
She Sprayed three weeks in a row too and threw a lot away.
I don't know how to do the quate thing but she did say this :" I am so careful to segregate everything new coming in and I keep the shelves very clean. They get cloraxed every couple of months which might have kept the mites down to a dull roar! I also use Marathon in the soil and Physan 20 in the wicking containers. Mites are not affected by either of those."
It's good Nancy had her plants checked.
I do know mealies are hard to get rid of they even hide in wicks when plant is drenched. Yuk
Me I'm scared of bugs I yell for for Hubby if I see an ant. lol
All you treated are brave. Mine would go into the trash. Any plants that come into the home that don't look healthy get trashed before even going near in . All plants isolated even if they go in big plastic box and in a window room along. If they do not grow well I throw them out.
It's been months now sense your treatment Kenton how are your plants ? And more trouble ? Do you have healthy new pictures of plants you treated ?
This message was edited Jan 16, 2007 11:17 AM
ACK!!!!!!!!! I have to do it AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UGHHHHH I thought this was a one time thing....................I guess im going to have to spray again tomorrow . I thought it was once and the residue from the spray would keep killing them.
I think Avid does have a continuing action, but I think the repeated applications might still be necessary.... now you've got me going off to check that labeling info I sent you!
I think the recommended treatment is THREE times. Can't remember if it is every 3 weeks. Should be on the label.
But that is not with AVid. That was the recommended with the systemic I used.
Here's the manufacturer's info for Avid: http://www.syngentaprofessionalproducts.com/to/prod/avid/index.asp?nav=overview
Unfortunately, it just says "repeat as necessary" for controlling mites... but it does say to repeat every 7 days for leaf miners...
And don't forget that this all assumes that your mites haven't developed a resistance to Avid....
Btw, one of the plants I got from you (critter) totally melted from the center. It was funny to see.
I did read where Avid did need three separate doses . I also read where tank mix of Avid and M-Pede(Safer Soap
with 100 degree water plants were totaly dipped twice in three week intervals. An established mite infestation
will always have a few females in diapause somewhere in the growth room.
Trays were also soaked in solution for 1/2 hour of the 100 degree water too.
Oh yes I did not think about this mites haven't developed a resistance to Avid
So this can happen also ?
Keyring what do you mean melted in the center ?
Cyclamen mites,,and are entirely different.(and to treat ptoperly you must find out what type you have. which a few of you sent yours to be tested great choise) Mites have 4 stages: egg, larvae, nymph, and adult Beacause of the different stages more tha one spraying or dipping is needed. Because mites have 4 stages, a miticide can potentially kill mites at any or all of these stages. Some miticides, such as Avid or Floramite, kill adults Few products kill or neutralize eggs (and sometimes make adults sterile even if they do not kill them). The most effective and longest-lasting control would kill both eggs, adults, and larvae or nymph stages. Combining an ovicide (which kills the eggs) with a product that kills adults greatly enhances the effectiveness of any spraying program. If the spray program does not control all stages, re-spray on a schedule that takes into account the timing of the stages in the mite life cycle. Avid does not kill all stages.Make sure to spray back of folae where theyhide a dipping meho is good .I also recommended to use Avid with an ovicide killer ( eggs)
And like Keyring said I went and looked up a few places Mites do build up a resitance to Avid or and other pesticides.
. Unfortunately, because of over use, many mites are developing resistance to Abamectin (Avid). Avid has been most effective against broad mites or cyclamen mites. This experience makes sense, because these types of mites tend to attack the youngest foliage, and Avid penetrates the young foliage
Beacause Mites develpoe resistance good idea to use different sprays for each interval. Avid is good for first one as it kills adults. Neem oil will smother the other stages but will not kill the adults. There is loads of info out there for any violet warrior .
But yes more than one spraying or dipping is needed . And yes nothing is 100 percent full proof .
Best to keep everything isolate for 3-4 months after treatments and have some plants checked again.