I hope I don't have mites ;-(

I just took a pic of a few of my a/v's that just haven't been doing anything for a while now (maybe 1 1/2 months). The more I read and look at them I think it may be mites.

I'm used to "spider mites" - which I can see with my eyes easily. Since I didn't see any spider web things and didn't see any mites crawling around I didn't think I had mites. But after reading up, I see that the mites that usually affect a/v's are not the spider mites you can see with the naked eye.

Seems the new growth is stunted, on some it is dying. The leaves on some appear to be curling. Overall reduced vigor -- seems they are not doing anything. I'm too new to a/v's to get be sure, pls let me know what you think.

This is the only pic I could take, ran out of disc space. If you need a more close up pic let me know and I will find another disc.

Thanks

http://www.steverd.com/violets/mites.htm

Maureen...hard to see your plants real well but the centers cetainly have problems. Explore this site a bit and it may be helpful to you.

HI Snowrose -- thanks for helping me. The site you listed is one of the ones I found, and after looking at the pics and reading the site I thought I may have these bugs.....yuck
And after all the TLC I've been giving these babies.

I am sorry to hear that. Do you have a powerful magnifier? Isn't this all just so disgusting? Oh well, as bad as it seems, most violets can be replaced. How about a new fresh start? A new plant stand and some new healthy violets might just be a good way to start the New Year.

As hard as it is to hear, fighting the problem is really hard and usually doesn't work. Hopefully you found it soon enough before your whole collection disappears. I had a problem last year. Appeared to be mites. I ended up throwing away many plants. Everyone that had disappearing centers. They looked the same as yours. The plants that looked "normal" I treated with insecticidal soap with neem. The next week I repotted everything and used a systemic. I managed to save a few plants. That was my first experience in loosing full grown, beautiful plants and it was very hard. Since then I have replaced a few and remember fondly the ones I lost.

It's important to wash everything down with lysol. Now, when I see a plant that looks suspicious I chuck it. I isolate new plants for two months at least before putting them on my shelf and I only keep the plants that grow well for me.

So sorry you are experiencing this. I felt bad for a long time. I don't get so attached to individual plants anymore but I still love growing them.

Snowrose - thanks for your support. And yes I agree it's disgusting---i Hate bugs!! I don't have a magnifier, but we do have one at work. Maybe I will borrow it and check tonight. Maybe I don't want to see these things magnified (lol) . The only good thing is that I may be forced to get new plants. I'm so glad I have a bunch of them at the office so they didn't get infected.

Nannanavarro - thank you for this information. Now I won't go crazy trying to get rid of these mites. I'm going to throw out all the ones that look bad and clean the trays I was using. I moved the bad ones into the kitchen windowsill hoping they would like the conditions in there better, now I'm hoping that they didn't infect my 3 full growing beauties that were the 1st a/v's I got. Also,I hope it didn't infect 2 of my orchids that I had near them----what do you think? Will they eat orchids too? ;-(

I don't have experience with orchids. I would just watch everything carefully. It probablly wouldn't hurt to treat your 3 full growing beauties with a systemic or insecticidal soap. I think I would disbud-and-bloom everything. That's also a hard thing to do. BUT it lessens the possiblity of infestation. Good luck!

Hi Nanna, thanks for this helpful into. So where do I get insecticidal soap or a systemic? Any specific names I should look for? Maybe they have it at HD? And I didn't know that disbudding and blooming would lessen infestation. I will definitely do that tonight when I get home from work.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/environment/inerts96.html

Pesticides -

Scroll down to see the adverse health affects even from so called 'inert' ingredients.

Chemical pesticides are no joke. Personally, I wouldn't dream of using them myself. Many can be very harmful to the nervous system as they are neurotoxins as well as many other health hazards. Products such as Neem oil or various soaps are considered safe....natural.... but not all that effective against mites. The key to prevent the spreading of infestation is isolation and the immediate removal of any suspicious plant.

Also, the widespread use of pesticides creates resistant bugs similar to what has happened with the indiscriminate use of antibiotics.

Sorry to be so blunt, maureen, but I have never met a violet worth nerve damage or cancer. The best 'cure' for mites in my opinion is the trash can. You can always check to be sure with a high powered magnifier or have your local county extension agent check for you to confirm. If the answer is yes on mites, then wave bye bye....

Hugs....
Snow

Oh No! Some of my plants look like this!! Can I pick off some leaves,clean them up w/ Safer Soap and strike them in leaf starting mix w/systemic? I hate to just toss them as a whole.

P

Sorry to see your having problems with your plants :((
Where did you get them all the same place ??
Very important when getting new plants and leaves to isolate them for 2-3 months, even then Mealies bugs, mites and other pest can appear and show up even a year later on very healthy looking plants.
You may be having this problem becasue of cold . Are they in a cold windowsill ? Are you watering with cold water ? Are they too wet and cold feet. Take out of their pots and check. Room temperture water will not do as it can be cold.
I water with hot/warm water during the winter and luke warm in warmer months.
Also over fertilizing can cause this problem . People will be surprised that they are over feeding their plants when they think they are not.
When you buy new pots, trays ... soak them in hot water and bleach. Wipe everything down . Soak any tools used in bleach now and after each use going from plant to plant.
Wash hand well after working with outside plants, new plants , infected plants. They can even be under finger nails, and on clothes, pets so on.
Do you have a live Christmas tree ? Pest, mites can be on them.
The worst pest that bother our plants can not be seen with the eye without 30x .
Optimara and Rob has good info about this also !
I have always thrown away any baby or plant that does not look or grow right. Mant times my Hubby plants them outside and they have grown to out largest pretties plants , Av's. Go figure.
Good luck !

I use Bonide "Bon-Neem" Insecicidal Soap. Says it is good for aphids, whitefly, mites, thrips, mealy bugs and powdery mildew. Apply when first notice symptom. Reaply in 3 to 5 days. I got it a Behnki's Garden Center. Bonide is the brand name. They make several products including a systemic.

I use plastic gloves when I use it and wash up good afterward. I think it is more of a preventive when I see a problem. I throw away plants that look suspicious and treat all other plants.

Please DO NOT Panic and throw away all your plants yet... This happens to many people mostly when it gets cold . This can happen for many reasons other than mites.
One Rob has a few answers for you :))
The leaves of my violets are curling downward and center growth appears very crowded. There is no evidence of mite, and I suspect it may be the cold temperature in my growing area
PLEASE READ HIS ANSWER>>
http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_5.htm#temperature

Yes, to repeat, your county extension agent can confirm the presence of mites, the type or the lack thereof if you are unable to see them for yourself with 30x mag.

Yes, to repeat, your county extension agent can confirm the presence of mites Ditto important !
I have known many people did this to find they had no mites or pest, bugs :))
Please do not panic isolate them, take them out of the pot see if they are damp, wet and cold, They hate cold feet. Run hot water threw them flushing any old fertilizer, salts..let them dry on paper towels. Spray if you want. then re-pot in clean bleach pots , isolate . Don't feed plants under stress. And read so much help out there !
I know Critter went threw this last winter and turned out no mites and many others did. There are great threads and inks here to help ! I will find as many as I can !

Maureen, I think I recognize a couple of those plants as ones that I sent you in October. :-) I've found that plants that I get from other people often go into shock when they try to adapt to a different environment (especially plants from FL, where the growing conditions are just very different than what I'm able to provide), and some of them end up with damaged crowns. Sometimes they will grow out of it on their own (without suckering), and sometimes you have to start a new plant from a leaf or a sucker. Remember that 'Child's Play' and 'Smitten Kitten' were suckering when I sent them... I figured you could use them for leaves or let a sucker grow big enough to remove and root.

I can reassure you at least that non of the plantlets that were on the trays with your AVs have shown any troublesome signs. I actually have a tray or two of crown-damaged plants that are isolated from the others "just in case," but I've never seen a mite (with a magnifying glass). The fact that a plant will grow out of the damage from time to time reinforces my belief that mites aren't the problem... But I do put down leaves from these plants for "insurance," in case the original plant never comes around.

So, go ahead and have them checked out under magnification, and PLMK what you find! Needless to say, I would be beside myself if it turned out I sent mites to anyone, but I really do think my shelves are clear of them.

For anyone who does discover a problem with mites and decides to treat with pesticides, please Dmail me... Avid seems to be the treatment of choice, but it only comes in a large and expensive bottle (or in a larger and very expensive bottle), and you only need maybe a teaspoon or two to treat your plants numerous times... I panicked and bought some last winter, so I've got some to spare. :-)

Yes Jill is so correct any stress can casue this also. Environmental changes cause stress. Environmental changes can happen even if the plant is not new . many change in our weather, potting soil, food and more.

One tip I got from Nannanavarro after her experience was to use dechlorinated water... I've started watering my AVs with filtered water (I have a filter that I use for fish tank water), and I do think that helped several of them.

I don't think that cyclamen mites would attack your orchids, but you might check over in the orchid forum.

Hopefully the problem will turn out to be something other than bugs... I think mites are unlikely, especially if these are all newer plants that could still be adjusting.

Oh the many joys and pitfalls for growing and loving avs

BTW, you might also check to see if they seem rootbound.... when I sent them to you, I thought several were about ready for the next pot size up, but I don't like to up-pot just before shipping because too much moist potting mix around a smaller rootball can be trouble.

http://www.rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page9.html

Quote from above website selling pesticides -

Quote "CUSTOMERS NOTE!!! In all cases, we DO NOT recommend spraying fungicides, pesticides, or miticides without proper protective gear. This includes a respirator, goggles and chemical resistant gloves at a minimum. You should also take proper precaution to cover your arms and legs with either long pants and long sleeve shirt, or with a chemical resistant suit such as Tyvek."

******************************************************************************************************************************

Good information if considering using Avid (miticide). Instructions include wearing a respirator, goggles. rubber gloves, etc. and also what emergency measures you can take if poisoned.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:1jgwVA6DY04J:www.horizononline.com/MSDS_Sheets/pdf/avid%2520MSDS.pdf+Avid+pesticide&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6

Very True Snow people please be careful. I always worked hard on isolating as with my health could never use any of these items.
Rob says ;
We've had good success with Avid, which seems to be the miticide of choice among larger commercial growers. Unfortunately, it is costly ($70 or more for 8 oz.) and comes in quantities that most small growers won't be able to use. Given its cost, we wouldn't advise the small, hobby, grower to expose themselves to toxins for the sake of a few violets.
Also more information about this and what they do from this question
Question: Several of my violets have tight centers and hairy leaves. I may have overfertilized when I switched fertilizers. But when I read my magazine, the description of tight centers and hairy leaves seems to come up when describing cyclamen mites. How do I tell the difference? I do have misshapen blossoms on some plants, but thought maybe condensation was taking place
Answer ; http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_12.htm#mites

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ldGoQlLS7mAJ:msds.plantprod.com/document/84+Avid+pesticide+precautions&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8


I hope this works....

If you do find out your have mites after testing Rob suggest;
In any event, we'd suggest that you separate your problem plants from your healthy ones. Investigate one possibility at at time. If the problem is bad (i.e. more like mites), root some healthy leaves and throw out the plants. Wash the leaves in a mild soap (like Ivory) and room-temperature water before rooting, and segregate the resulting plantlets until you are sure that they, too, haven't inherited the problem. If you must use a chemical, follow all instructions and take every precaution for safety. Since their life cycle is about 14 days, repeated treatments will be necessary to eradicate them--say, at least 3 applications at weekly intervals.

http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_12.htm#mites

Whew! Maybe it's because I have a tendancy to play the Jewish momma(Here,eat baby,eat)and have forgotten to bump the heater up a few times before I went to bed . Couple of times,hub's has turned off the heater...Yes,that's it...blame the hub's.

I never water with cold water.

P

That could do it.

BTW, I do take all appropriate precautions when using AVID (actually used it only on amaryllis bulbs thus far), and I further limit my exposure by not applying it as a spray... I dip, or I use a foam brush to apply the liquid. It's definitely not a chemical to treat casually.

Oh boy, I'm not sure what to do. I was so convinced they were mites that I threw them all in the garbage. They are all still in my kitchen garbage from this morning. I think I may garbage pick and pull out a few that actually looked ok.

My house is warm -- 68 at night and 70+ during the day. They are not in a drafty cold area, but actually in the warmest part of the house.

I think I may just pick out the few plants that actually looked ok and see if I can save them. The ones with the bad bad centers I'm going to leave in the trash.

Violet_treasure -thank you so much for your help here. I really appreciate your time and help. The water I'm using may be too cold. I usually use room temp water or on medium out of the faucet. I will start using warmer water. I fertilize every few weeks with optimara. I haven't fertilized in about 3 wks because I want to use Elenoar's and wanted all the fertilizer out. I read Rob's site but I'm still a little confused. The leaves in the centers were actually dying - not just tight. Could that be from stress? I just have a real bad feeling about the ones I took the pics of. I don't have a strong magnifier....let me go check in my son's bedroom.

Critter - hi, how are you? I'm going to go through the garbage now and see if any of them are rootbound -- I'm not sure if they are. I want to see if they are wet also, maybe I've been watering too much? Thanks for all of your help.

Snowrose - thank you too for your help here. I decided no way to the miticides. If that's what I have, the plants will not stay. I don't have time for rubber gloves and goggles, etc :-)

bigred - hope your plants are ok.

Oh boy, off to the garbage can. Be back with an update later.

Thanks to everyone of you for helping me. You guys are the best!!

Hugs
maureen

Oh, no! I'm so sorry I didn't see this thread last night, so I could respond before the plants got tossed. The ones in your photo mostly (all maybe) look like ones I sent you, and I'll bet the problem is change in environment and/or needing repotting. I did a little spot checking with a magnifying glass this afternoon, and I'm not finding any mites here. I would suggest just isolating the ones with the bad centers, especially if you look under magnification or take them to get checked and don't find any mites. (And if you do find mites, please don't hesitate to LMK!!) I have some plantlets that look lush and lovely again now, but they looked pretty bad this summer... some new plants didn't adjust well (half looked great a month after arrival and half had crown issues and started suckering), and some of my upstairs plants got crown damage at the beginning of summer (too much light from the new T-8 florescent fixtures)... not only did I never find any mites, most of the plants are now growing out of the problem, so I really think environmental factors were the cause.

The center leaves are dying ?? Maybe crown rot . Which can be caused from cold water and over watering and other reasons. Did you get water on the crowns ?
Take the plants out of the pots and see if the roots are wet and cold. Sometimes, many times I have thought a pot was dry and light and needed watering when it did not.
Also a windowsill will be 10 degrees colder than room. I always ket therometers right on my stands next to the plants.

I had a few dead centers that I think were due to light issues early this summer and uneven watering. Plants are looking better now. And some varieties just seem prone to crown problems.... 'Allegro Appalachian Trail' and 'Winnie the Pooh' seem to have a lot of crown and suckering issues for me, and I know others have noted the same thing.

BTW, and this is not just directed at Maureen... I know it can be hard to think about Dmailing somebody and saying you think there might be a serious issue with the plants they sent.... but I would *always* rather know about problems than not! That's why I keep saying to PLMK if it really does turn out to be mites... I need to know! I also always want to know if plants don't arrive in good shape, especially if there might be something I could improve in my packing & shipping methods. And if you lose a plant from me for whatever reason, if you LMK then I can put the plant on your "wish list" in my trade tracker, and I'll know to start another one for you.

So please.... everyone.... If I send you plants, and you think there's a problem, or if the plants don't survive.... PLMK! I feel bad to think that anyone would hesitate to contact me. I am really quite hard to offend, and I want people to be happy with my trades!

Couple things about your crown are they dying , disapearing , do you have new growth ?
Oh what Jill mentioned above has happened to me and friends many times.
When things look like Mites I like to think ' NO" as so mant things can make your plants give signs of Mites and they don't have them :))
Question: Recently, I have experienced a problem with the center growth on some of my violets. On some otherwise healthy plants, the center growth has disappeared. The plant would remain healthy, then eventually sprout suckers from the center.
Answer; http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_2.htm#no%20center
SLOW GrowthAlso PH can cause damgeAAl
Question: Do African violets go dormant?
Answer;http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_10.htm#dormancy
ALSO if PH is off can cause damage to new growth and more


Question: My violets have seen to suddenly stopped growing. The centers are tight and the new leaves seem to be deformed.
Answer; http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_4.htm#water%20pH

OK I'm lost lol What does BTW , PLMK mean ??

Sorry, but I am lost here. Why all the guessing games? One either has mites or they don't.

Critter - your plants looks beautiful when they arrived here. Not only was the packaging outstanding, but the plants all looked great. It's just been the last month or so they have declined -- so this lead me to believe they arrived here healthy. They adjusted fine for a month or 2, then went down. So I didn't want to email you because I thought the problem somehow came off of another of my indoor house plants.

But to stop all the guessing, I've gone to the website for my local county extension. I'm sending 2 of the plants to have them checked - then I will know for sure if they are mites or not.

In the meantime, I have taken all the plants carefully out of the garbage. (they look quite good:-)

I'm filling out the questionairre now and will mail with the 2 sample plants tomorrow.

Violet_treasure - BTW means by the way. The centers on some have completely dried up and disappeared?? The others are looking like they may dry up soon (they look dry and like they are on their way out) or are just small and stunted looking.

Snowrose - I think all of the guessing is because I don't know for sure if these are or aren't mites since I can't see any bugs (they are too tiny).

I'll let you all know the outcome for the 2 samples I send tomorrow.

Maureen

So true Maureen when you can get your plants check by 30x power or best way county extension agent :)) I'm sure they will let you mail to them ! Then you will know for sure !
Me I'm not guesing I just talking from experience of many friends who have grown AV's with this problem.
Also many books, and links from long time growers like Rob and Optimara and other people out there to help us with symptoms and solving the problems ! So glad their help is there for us before we panic and throw away our plants as soon as we see something wrong.
JUst like when Rob from Violet barn was asked if these syptoms were mites he answered with a " Probably not. It's more likely that these were the symptoms of too much light and, to a lesser degree, too much fertilizer" Some type of environmental issue .
From my plants , reading and study, many friend's plants I have learned when I see plants that look like the picture here in forum of Maureen's most likly it is not MItes. And don't guess Mites until checked properly for them !

Awesome Maureen ! Please let us know what they say !
In the mean time take each plant out of their pot check for cold damp feet/roots :))
Leach, I'd re-pot in proper size pots that have been soaked in bleach and hot water, and isolate.
Praying NO Mites and your plants grow out real pretty and give you lots of blooms !

I didn't mean you, maureen, as you were just asking advice and didn't know or what to do. I was talking about the guessing games all day long. The issue is, do you have mites...yes or no. Now, you will know for sure after your plants are analyzed professionaly. If you don't, then we can play guessing games about what cultural practices may be causing the missing or distorted centers.

Maureen glad you could get so much helpful advice today :))
There is so many growers and help and books out there to help us.

OH yes like I mentioned >>. then check your plants might need re-potting like JJIll mentioned. Use clean bleach pots . I like even washing and cleaning my plants with warm/hot soap and water. I leach too and let air dry on paper towels before potting have helped me.
Keep warm and not too much light check some of Rob's reccomendations won't hurt with your isolated plants until you get your answer back from your county extension agent can confirm :)) the only way you will really find out without a 30x or strong loupe.
These are not guesing , all is good information from long time growers to please nt panic and throw all your plants away until you know for sure if you have mites yes or no and sorry known of us can tell you this answer.
But I will be looking forward to hearing what the county extension agent can confirm !
In the mean time does not hurt to help them while in isolation :))