Unknown pest

Something chewed my Cameo Elegance seedling overnight. It was all limp and floppy this morning. Can anyone fathom a guess at what this might be? I had the seedling indoors, and the only pest I have seen around are fugus knats.
Beth

Oh,sorry to see that. :(

Do you have a cat?

I have to put little wire cages around mine to keep out the feline "pests" but then I need the felines to catch the little rodent pests.

Another idea is a snail or slug? The eggs hatch in the dirt.

This message was edited Nov 30, 2006 4:02 PM

We don't have any cats, and anyway I had this one at the office. The chew is so tiny I think it must be an insect. Does anyone know if fungus knats can do this to a seedling stem?
Beth

I don`t think the fungus gnats bother plants but the larvae can eat on the roots and stems.

Beth, have you tried posting this one under bug forum.......... who dunnit? maybe they'll recognize the damage.

just a thought

Cutworms will girdle or cut off the stems. They are rarely reported being indoors...did you bring in plants from outdoors that they could have possibly hitchhiked in on?

Joseph

A mouse?? Seems like too delicate a bite for a cat, anyway - at least, where our couthless furballs are concerned.

It could be the larva of the fungus gnats doing the damage. The gnats lay eggs that hatch into tiny maggots and the maggots eat the roots and lower stems doing damage and making the leaves turn yellow.

I thought it resembled one of the mangled seedlings my kitty got into earlier this year. The cats tore some of my seedlings batting them with their paws. So I made little cages and protective barriers for the trellises and it worked pretty good.

I seem to recall a remedy for those fungus gnats - soak 1T of crumbled mosquito donut in a gallon of water overnight, and then drench the surface of the pot. Repeat in 6 weeks.

Gardener2005, many years ago a brilliant idea on how to outsmart my cats tried to smack my brain but missed. I suspended a 4' x 12" board from the kitchen ceiling loaded with seedlings, smugly reflecting on our cats' lack of wings. Well, what is it about 3:00 am in the morning? Seems like if something is going to go amiss, that's when the fertilizer is going to hit the fan - er, crash to the floor. grrr.

The lower stem damage may be from the fungus gnats...they may have started a hole or took advantage of a soft spot and progressively worked on that part until it finally toppled over...it may have taken a few days to chew through the stem to that degree...

I would replant in water and/or a different container...the lower portion of the stem below the cotyledons can often resprout roots...

TTY,...

Ron

I`m imagining the mess bluespiral`s cats made. How funny After the fact of course!!!!

I have found damaged seedlings like this and tied the stem to a small tiny little stick secured with sewing thread and temporarily put a little extra dirt to help support and it made it with no ill affects. Morning glories are tough!

I think Ron`s idea is better for this one since it is chewed so badly. Without the water it might wilt beyond help. I also suggest try dipping it in rooting hormone.






This message was edited Dec 1, 2006 10:33 AM

You could always start another seed in new soil in a different pot.

Gerris is right. This past year I took to planting seeds a few weeks apart in case stuff happened I got back ups and I avoid planting every one of my seeds before I have harvested seed of that particular vine.

I just wanted to say it was nice spending a little time here this morning. I`m scheming on setting up a plant room in a unused bedroom in the back of the house.

I have gardened outside for years. I`m also a newbie at morning glories and now suddenly I want indoor plants. It has to be the Glory inspiration of the year for me to finally start having indoor plants. What was I thinking before? I began with a lovely marbled ivy in my kitchen and now I`m about to fill an entire room. It is still in the planning stage though. I`m on the run now. bye/bye

Oh, but Gerris, some of us - such as moi - are no strangers to Murphy's Law (if something is going to go wrong, it will), and therefore sometimes find ourselves with only 1 or 2 seeds we cannot imagine living without. Baolvera might have oodles of Cameo Elegance seed, but for the sake of argument, supposing this was her only seed (if it is, Baolvera, I can send you a tad more - Ron's advice for ripening seed indoors worked for me).

So, Ron, in addition to gardener2005's idea about using rooting hormone, what do you also think about putting a tsp of hydrogen peroxide (H202) into a pint of water into which the cutting could be replanted or with which to drench the repotted cutting? If I understand the theory behind the efficacy of H202 correctly, since

H202 = H20 + 0,

the extra 0 (oxygen) leaves the H20 (water) and attaches itself to plants and various flora/fauna in their potting media and kills the pathogens (bad guys). So, bacteria that might be forming on a wound, such as on Baolvera's MG, would be set back quite a bit through this oxygenating process. Please correct me if I'm making any errors here.

Ron, I added the use of H202 to EmmaGrace's and my essay on MG germination for this forum. So, while we're on the subject, I'm emailing you a copy of the most recent draft I finished a couple days ago for your advice.

PS, rjuddharrison's excellent journal has very comprehensive links on H202 at: http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/rjuddharrison/1923/

Sorry, gardener2005, we crossed in cyberspace - what you said: ditto, especially spending part of this morning in our Morning Glory Haven. Gerris, you are fun to tease - hope you don't mind.

No worries, bluespiral, I see your point of view.

I watched one cultivar of JMG grow with a spurt then flop on 4 tries and I gave up last year. I will try it again this year.

@Bluespiral...what is mosquito donut? and if you have a few more cameo elegance seeds to share, I would appreciate it!

couple things...

1) it's a good idea to get experience helping seedlings to root...don't wait until you have some rare seedling that will croak without assistance...


2) the addition of alittle peroxide may help

3) I personally would not use alot of rooting hormone...the rooting hormone can 'burn' the tissues sometimes...and if I did use the rooting hormone I would use sand in a 'minigreenhouse' to insure hydration without washing the rooting hormone away...e.g.,. a large clear plastic/glass cup/container with some saranwrap over the top...

4) the best way to assist the root developement is to use an extremely fine airstone hooked up to a little airpump...like used for aerating the water in fishtanks...works wonders...

TTY'all...

Ron

I have personally not had good experience with rooting hormone. I have tested side by side, hormone and no hormone, and have found that sometimes the seedling or cutting dies after I use the powdered form. This seedling looked fine until it suddenly fell over from the chewed stem. I will try sprouting another one, and use a different pot of soil. Another question I want to throw out there....it appeared the leaves on this Cameo Elegance were not varigated, yet most of the photos I see of CE are varigated. Is anyone else growing this one, and how do your leaves look?
Beth

I probably should have left that out aboout the rooting hormone. I have had superb results using diluted in water root hormone but everyone`s mileage will vary and you do have to learn how to use it correctly.

Just because it worked for me doesn`t mean it will work for someone else and I sure wouldn`t want to give bad advice and have people mad at me. Dead plants teach us things and it isn`t always your fault.

When another year rolls around we come back smarter to try again. I have saved some very pathetic looking mangled plants but that could be my dumb luck and natures will to live and carry on the species to give credit to.

Thanks to everyone for your advice. This little sprout was only hanging by a thread to its roots, so its a goner. I will try sprouting one again and hope the same pest isn't around!

Baolvera, I will send you 5 seeds - sorry for pitifully small amount - the variegated JMGs seemed most susceptible to rust and least willing to produce a seed pod for us. The parent of these seeds came from EmmaGrace, and it was just as "awesome" as she said it would be, with liberal splashes of cream on green and small red flowers. Let me say that the variation was not so marked on the newly developing seedlings, but became more and more marked as the season went on. So, maybe yours might have "purtied up", too.

This is a morning glory that is easy to combine with other plants, because it seemed not to mind staying around the height of its 42" support. We loved it with ferny lemon southernwood and Critterologist's red-leaved canna. Rue edged the front.

We put mosquito donuts in our tiny pond and bird bath. It consists of Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. Israelensis and other "goodies". It's supposed to be an environmentally safe biological control for mosquito larva, but must not get into drinking water. The trade name is "MosquitoDunks" and we bought it at Home Depot. There was a thread in the Brug Forum where someone posted about their discovery that this could also be used to control fungus gnats.

Gerris, I'm curious about what made your MG seedling start off fine and then flop. Can we rule out damp-off fungus? Were they sprouting indoors or outdoors? Was the seed-starting medium sterile? Could ventilation have been improved? What cultivar wuzzit? I. 'Double Blackie' had poor germination and the seedlings looked so iffy for the longest time, while it's neighbors were all taking off like gangbusters. Were you working with a double? Are doubles known for balky starts?

Regarding rooting hormone - it was my understanding that this is a product only good until the "sell by" date. So, maybe that might have something to do with how well it works or not?

Ron, as always, thank you for your advice. There are some roots forming on a 'Double Blackie' cutting although the leaves at the tip seem to be in decline. I'm going to pot it up tonight and use a bread bag for the greenhouse roof. Keep it up, and we will all "come back smarter to try again" in the spring.

Beth, did you autopsy the soil it was growing in? You may still have the culprit captive. and not know it. It could be some kind of flying beatle that came in from cold weather. I always recommend seed starting media. There are never any insects in it. Fungus Gnats are the bane of Orchid growers because they feed on fungus, but track bateria all over the leaves.
If you go to an Orchid show, you can pick up a lovely little plant for $10, that is called
Pinguicula. It is classed as a carnivorous plant, because the leaves are like flypaper, real sticky, and it traps the fungus gnats, keeping them from spreading bacteria black leaf spot onto other plants. I have one in the kitchen windo with my orchids and it controls the fungus
gnats quite well. All you have to do to get rid of the dead gnats, is to hold the Pinguicula under the faucet and spray them off and it is recharged. Sorry for your loss. At least is was only one. Frank

I am dumping this soil in case there is still a pest in there. I will start fresh next time.

Here is my second try at cameo elegance (thanks, bluespiral). I am so excited because this one is starting to show the varigation in the leaves!
Beth

That is looking good. :)

We have been so spoiled by benign weather this December - nice to go into January's "bite" with the growth of this little seedling to look forward to. The splashes of white over the leaves were so large that this strain of 'Cameo Elegance' really "shone" in the moonlight last summer.

This is an update on how the seeds that bluespiral sent me are doing. I have two plants, one in the office and one in the greenhouse. They are both doing GREAT and I love the varigated leaves!
Beth

Beth, your seedling's leaves are much more variegated at that stage than their parents were. They grew within the drip line of a monster silver maple rooted just on the other side of the property line on an abandoned lot next door, so I'm thinking that might have caused the delay in leaf variegation. Perhaps Cameo Elegance flowered as well as it did under those circumstances because one of its ancestors was I. hederacea which takes quite a bit of shade around here? Am looking forward to seeing the flowers - thank you.

Here is the first bloom! Thanks again bluespiral, I will always have these on my "grow" list in the future.
Beth

A shot of the whole plant.

Ahh don't you love the leaf variegation? Wow nice healthy happy plant, Beth!

Joseph

Another bloom about to open.

Bluespiral, you gifted me with a pair of JMG seedlings last year... variegated foliage, hot pink blooms with a white picotee edge... were they 'Cameo Elegance'? I lost the name and have been calling them "Bluespiral's JMG, hot pink with white picotee" -- quite a mouthful, LOL.

Jill, unfortunately, it's my memory that tells me that the seeds from which your seedling came were from EmmaGrace in summer of 2005 labeled Maisugata. According to my records, due to space issues, I kept 3 vines from that batch for myself - one was like yours and the other two had a proportionally wide white picotee edge; beneath that, there was a background of a blue-pink-mauve field upon which a purple star occurred along the 5 main ribs, with smaller secondary rays of varying length in between and intermediate purple shadings circling where the 5 main spokes divided; then a fuchsia tube leading to white throat. I go into the range of offspring from that particular batch of seed, because I thought the last two were beyond gorgeously subtle in the shadings and patterns, and no seed matured from them.

Did yours have the 5 spokes? If not, were the variegations on the leaves large, distinct splashes of cream or were they less obvious? If yours did not have the spokes and if it had the large splashes of cream on the leaves and if the flowers were small, then it could have been 'Cameo Elegance'.

However, if it's from Emma's batch labeled Maisugata, I'd love to know what kind of vines you get this summer, because I'm hoping the other type of MG will show up.

Maybe we could call your vine Emma's Maisugata Y2?

In http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/106236/index.html , Ron puts Maisugata in Ipomoea yojiro. I adored the variations among the vines from this batch of Emma's seed last summer, and it was interesting to see the 5 white rays, so distinctive of the parent, disappear in some of the offspring whose patterns and colors were rearranged as described above.

To say differently what I just did in the foregoing post, let me refer to a list of flower color patterns on:

http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/Asagao/Yoneda_DB/E/species/flower_pattern.html

From the above batch of seed from Emma labeled Maisugata, which is pattern #6 "Ray White" in blue, came #6 again but in "hot pink" and pattern #8 "Rayed" with the colors and tonalities described above. In #8, the white rays became a very dark purple instead. Our version of #8 most looked like the second color photo beneath the diagrams called "Large flower, Rayed, retracted, dragonfly (Ry, re, dg)", except that the rays secondary to the dark purple star were of an intermediate shade between the star and overall color field of the flower.

Edited to change #7 to #8, because when the link below the diagrams that says "flower color patterns" is clicked, a clearer version of the diagrams comes up that shows the intermediate pattern between the star along the 5 main ribs and the general background.

This message was edited Mar 3, 2007 5:10 AM

I could've sworn I had a photo of mine, but of course I can't hunt it up now that I need it... However, mine were pink with a white edge, no rays, no purple star, no shading... but very striking all the same! The leaves (at least some of them) were variegated pretty obviously, splashes of cream as you said. The flowers weren't especially large, maybe 2 1/2 inches in diameter.

I thought it looked pretty similar to the photo of 'Minibar Rose' I saw on a seed site last fall... I ordered some seeds and will see if they grow out the same as the ones I saved from your plants. I looked up 'Minibar Rose' in PF just now, and I noticed a note saying somebody thought it looked similar to 'Cameo Elegance'. http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/51637/index.html

I'm guessing mine might be 'Cameo Elegance' after all. By any name, I just loved it, and I can't wait to have them flowering again this year! :-)

Alrighty - I think I gave both you and Beth Cameo Elegance - you got one from an original seed from Emma, and Beth got one descended from a vine from Emma's seed. Emma's label said "...'Cameo Elegance'...aka Minibar Rose'..." When I look at the webpage for each MG in PlantFiles, side by side, I can't see any difference.

However, I did take pictures last summer with my non-digital camera, so these are not sharp images (still, the local drug store says it can put them on a disk for $3 - I really should do it). And as I look at my picture from last summer's Cameo Elegance, I see a much wider picotee edge on the rim of the flower than I see in either of PlantFiles' pics or in Beth's. Perhaps this might have to do with the flowers being completely open in the PlantFiles' pics, whereas mine were open, but somewhat cupped, which might have caused the camera to pick up more of the white picotee on the rim.

But Beth's flower still has some folding, whereas the folds in mine had already unfolded, and still, I don't see as wide a picotee edge on hers as on mine.

I did get a sideways shot of CE, but it's too fuzzy to ascertain what the pedicels are up to.

But does anyone know if Cameo Elegance and Minibar Rose are the same or different? In http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=2841245 , Ron said "The MiniBar Rose is Ipomoea nil and Ipomoea hederacea...this should potentially cross with other Ipomoea nil and other Ipomoea hederacea..."

Might Cameo Elegance have the same genetic background? Or, could it have come from I. hederacea x I. nil (and what do those crosses look like?)? I once saw a bromeliad flower that looked just like a double daffodil, so very similar shapes can come from surprisingly different corners of the plant kingdom (and the animal kingdom has some interesting mimicry of plants, too).

(PS - In the same thread, there's a wonderful post - http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=2840807 - where Ron expounds on interspecific MG crosses. If y'all haven't saved that one to your favorites on your computer under "Interspecific Cross", I hope you do so now. I really need to go back and capture and index more of this information, myself. Anyone reading this who hasn't discovered favorites and how to save and index especially germaine posts, feel free to ask.)

Thanks, bluespiral!

You're welcome - would still be interested in any answers or musings to my questions