Cattle Panel Hoophouse, Part 2

Hey Molly!!! Thought you had hybernated for the winter. Didn't expect to hear from you until May or June. Gosh 600+ is pretty darned good. and your temps seem to be holding good. You all seem to be getting our cold stream clear across the country. It is suppose to let up starting around Sunday or Monday into the 30s. So, I would think a couple of days after that for you guys.

We are running right around zero at night and daytime highs at 15. Have you decided how big you are going to make your next gh? You have done real well with this one. A lot of work but a good learning experience too. Are you finding that it is still a lot of work right now? I suppose with trying to keep up with watering, fertilizing etc. you probably are hopping.

Well, good to hear from you. Keep us posted. Jeanette

Hi Jeanette,

With plants there is always a lot of work :-) but I love it. The new one will probably be 16 x 20 (at least that's my current plan). Paul wants me to build it attached to this one! After all the fuss he raised about my building the first one he now doesn't want me to tear it down!!! MEN! Go Figure!
I want the new one to be of Solexx instead of the film. The film did a good job but I now want something more rigid. I also want a more geometric shape. Makes it easier to hang lights. I'm planning on putting up florescent lights over all the seedlings next year. I only have one 4 ft fixture up this year and it's over the remaining unsprouted seeds only. Paul has some 8 ft florescents stored in the barn that I can rewire for the GH . I'll hang those from chains so I can adjust them as the plants grow.
We're in single digits this morning and told we can slip even lower this week. GH is still at 55 in the mornings so it's holding up nicely. I may get a chance to post some photos later this week. I had a computer virus and after it was cleaned out my camera can't communicate with my computer so I'm having to borrow Paul's and wait for him to put the pictures on his computer, then I download them to mine and send them out.

MollyD

Okay here is the much promised photo of my little greenhouse on the outside.

Here's the inside on the left.

MollyD

and the right inside. As you can see it definitely was a learning experience! The barrels hold water for heat.

Molly D

Molly!! It is wonderful! I am so envious of you to be doing that this time of year. How nice. And for it to be keeping your temp at 55 in that weather is really a work of genious. LOL really tho that is well done.

Paul must be very proud of what you have done to feel that way. Just great.

Jeanette

Thanks Jeanette. It works beautifully. This first one is no beauty so I hope to make the second one far more attractive.

MollyD

I sure don't see a thing wrong with it Molly. And obviously Paul doesn't either. Jeanette

That's very nice of you to say Jeanette.
Coldest weather so far this year is enroute for Saturday night along with lake effect snows. Since the lakes hadn't frozen this could mean a significant amount of snow. I just picked up the new 20,000 btu heater this morning. We're hoping to install it tonight. I hope it's installed before the weather hits.

MollyD

Molly, I assume you are getting our weather and I don't know how many days behind us you are, but we got snow all day today, not bad, only a couple of inches, and I assume it is still snowing out there. So, it is suppose to be in the 30s for the highs by this time next week. That is unless they change it. We are looking at a couple nights in the low teens. Other than that, in the 20s for both highs and lows.

Gee your gh has been working so well, do you really think you need the extra heater? I always feel that if it snows, that means the cloud cover warms it up and the snow is insulation. But, you sure know your area better than I do.

Those little green things popping out of the soil look so cool. I enfy you watching them grow. I love planting seeds or anything like them.

Jeanette

The little green things are baby daylilies (LOL).
The heater is needed in order to keep the temperature at the right warmth. I was running both a propane heater (Big Buddy) and an electric heater at the same time to maintain that 55 at night. Electric is expensive here so I prefer to use it strictly as a backup in case the propane runs out. The problem with the Big Buddy is that it has no thermostat. It's either on or off. On those rare occassions when the sun shines and heats the greenhouse up the Big Buddy continues to run until it uses up the propane. Not a good thing. This new heater gives off more heat than the Big Buddy and will turn itself off and on as needed which means I won't overheat the greenhouse and I won't waste propane.
Snow won't keep the greenhouse warm since it can't cling to a curved (and heated) surface. It just slides right off. We get into negative double digits here so we probably need more heat than you do.
The weather we're getting now isn't coming from out your way. It's lake effect snow. We're on the Great Lakes and when they don't freeze and cold weather arrives they dump large amounts of snow on us.

MollyD

Mother Nature's a trip isn't she. We just got about 8 or 9 inches of snow today. I knew those little green things were day lilies. LOL Just wondered if you did. LOLOL

Guess maybe I don't have the patience for a greenhouse in the winter. Altho, my sister who lives about 5 miles from me has a very nice gh and she heats it from under the floor (radient) and I do believe for the coldest days she has an additional small heater up above but I'm not sure. I am going over there this weekend and I am really curious now. I will have to find out. But, she has no problems keeping her heat steady in the winter.

We might get down in the negative single, and once in a while double digits in February.

Jeanette

Jnette ~ I am interested, can you find out how the radiant heat is generated? Gas, electric? is it run thru the floor by water or electric tape? TIA pod

I will ask my sister. I believe it is water run thru with electric someway. But will ask to make sure. Jeanette

Hi all!

Just checking in to update you guys. Winter has hit my area like a sledgehammer and my little greenhouse is holding up like a trooper. We've hit -5 with windchills of -20 and the greenhouse has stayed at 50F. The only time I ran into trouble was when my propane ran out and the power went out so my electric backup couldn't run. A hasty trip to get a small tank filled solved the problem but not before the temp had drop to 38. I think I've solved the propane problem by purchasing a second 100# tank and a connector that automatically switches from the empty tank to the full one while putting up a flag to let me know the other tank is empty. That should stop those late night run outs.
I've debated about using a kerosene heater as a backup. What effects have others noted about the use of kerosene around plants?

MollyD

I have used a kero heater on the enclosed back porch. I have a large number of succulents and tender houseplants there. The porch is not insulated but it maintains a temp of 50+ degrees (I used this on nights that our temperature got into the low 20's). The only glitch I have had is, the heater I have has a small tank and can run out overnight. I noticed no problem with the fumes bothering the plants.

Thanks podster. May I ask how long you've been using the kerosene? I just got one for our house at Walmart. 10K btu's and runs for 12 hours on one gallon. Under $100.

MollyD

Using it for my plants?...just this year. And I might add I don't use it full time, only as temps dip. Our climate here is milder than yours. On the other hand, I have used Kero heat off and on for more years than I can remember. I have a newer heater as well as two old Aladdin heaters. I know the newer one needs the wick serviced to make it more efficient. I can smell it too strongly when it is lit. We do not use it as our sole source of heat but as a backup. We are remote and have lost utilities for extended periods of time with wind or ice storms. There was a time when it was financially efficient. The source for kero has changed and the cost also. In the 70s there was a business that sold it. They kept it in a 55 gal barrel out back of the store. They had a hand crank pump on it and would fill your container for pennies. Those days are history. Then a local service station actually kept a ground tank with it ~ but when the quality became poorer they dropped it also. Now, we are down to buying it commercially in jugs or cannisters. It has gotten pricey.

I can buy it either way. Refills or in plastic containers from Walmart. Walmart is expensive. This is a new heater I'm running in the house. We just got it yesterday and I'm finding that the odor is quite strong even though I've followed the instructions and have the flame looking like the recommended pictures. Not sure what else to do to make it stop smelling so much.

MollyD

It does have a stronger odor. DH was grumbling when I used it on the back porch. The odor would come in. If I am not mistaken, it is sensitive to the flame being set just right, the wick being maintained correctly and perhaps even the type of fuel used. I would be at a loss to give you any useful advice for the odor problem though, sorry.

You may try some different fuels. Fuel oils come in different grades, grade 1 is kerosene. Years ago we had a fuel oil furnace and bought grade 3 fuel oil which was cheaper. You need to use grade 1 which I am sure is what you are using. The one I am using that smells so strong came from a builders supply... K1 kerosene from Kleanstrip. I haven't tried it in my old heater to see if the odor is there too. Might be worth trying another brand of kerosene. pod

SOmeone told me about an additive they used that removed teh smell.. of course I can't remember what that additive was because, not having a kerosine heater at teh time, I was only politely listening

Pod,
The first fuel (K1) was from Walmart. This morning we have K1 in it from a different source and the smell isn't as strong. Maybe this is a better quality kerosene than what Walmart sells?
Glad to have it though as it's in a small back room that can't be closed off from the rest of the house. If it's not heated the main rooms get very cold from the direction of this room. Wish I'd been able to get the 20k btu but they had run out of them at that time and we needed extra heat in there badly. We had been using a Big Buddy from Mr. Heater and after one month it stopped working on high or medium. Would only run on low and kept snuffing out at odd times. No it wasn't a lack of air. This house isn't airtight!! We took it back and got our money back from Walmart. The Mr.Heater company is getting into our bad book after loosing that heater, two smaller Buddies and a vent free heater. The last was purchased for the greenhouse. Kept snuffing out and when it ran it wouldn't stop when it reach the set temp. It's fan would only run on manual too, not auto. Returned it and got a ProCom from Home Depot. Perfect! Funny thing is that a week or so ago I saw the same ProCom heater (same model) being sold in a greenhouse catalog for $60. more than what I paid at HD. I really like this ProCom. We're making a bigger greenhouse this year and I may get a 30K ProCom for it and move this 20K to the house unless Paul wins his argument and we run two greenhouses (I pay that fuel bill so I don't think so!)

MollyD

If you or anyone else hears about that additive Jazz I'd love to hear about it! As I said it's not as bad with this K1 today from a second source but still I'd rather not smell it at all if it can be helped.
Pod is the only person I've run into who has used it around plants and been successful. Has anyone else especially for daylilies? It's much cheaper than propane so far. Has to be filled twice a day but hey that's better than paying a lot of money. I'd like to use it as a backup heat source for those extra cold days (like today, it was -0.7 this morning). Electricity isn't dependable here as I found out this weekend.
My poor plants must be getting very confused. At night it's around 53 in the GH but during the day on sunny days (like yesterday) it went up to 96. That's quite a big jump up and down!! They look good though.

MollyD

the lamp oils you see in wal-mart & other big boxes are nothing but scented k-1 kerosene - if it is that important to you that your heater smells wonderful - you could purchase a bottle of "scent" from your local health food co-op and scent your own kerosene; but I imagine it will add about 1.25 a gallon to your cost. (1/2 oz of scented oil costs around 1.25) and I am not sure how well that will scent a gallon of kero: good luck

Gosh Molly, I thought that is what the internet is for. To research? How about google? That stock is worth enough it should do something for the rest of us. LOL

Jeanette

I would Jeanette but like the dictionary you often have to know what you're looking for in order to find it. People are still the best source of information out there.

Perry what I got at Walmart wasn't lamp oil. It was K-1 kerosene and it was really bad to the point it made your eyes burn and your throat felt raw. This isn't a matter of scent, it's a matter of feeling better around the stuff.

MollyD

MollyD ~ am not sure but what using scented oils may void any warranty or affect the wick. I have never tried that. I am like you though, I would rather ask than try to stumble thru acres of search engine fodder. One persons' experience is worth a lot of time and trouble. The plants I have kept warm are some of the following. Spiders, Tradescantia, Stapelias, Crassulas, Huernia, Hoyas, Scutellaria, Cuban Oregano, Jasmine, Sans and other succulents. No bad effects but it is not full time heat with kero and it does receive some ventilation. Do you find the DLs less hardy?

Molly, are you using this kerosene in your greenhouse or your home where you are actually breathing it? Either way I guess, but more so if you are in it a lot, the scent may mask a problem? Do you think? I would hate to think that just because it smelled good that you were inhaling something that was harmful.

Jeanette

Molly:
I just went back & reread your posts: I was not suggesting you buy lamp oil but that if it was important to improve the smell - that you make it: That said; as someone who grew up around kerosene heaters; until the 70's when these "kerosun" heaters came on the market; I never saw a kerosene heater that was not hooked to a chimney: Regardless of what the mfg might say, I would not use one of these things anyplace inside a modern 'tight' home - If I had to get something for supplemental heat, I would go with ventless propane: It is easy enough to see if you have a problem with a kerosene appliance - if it is the wick, you will make soot that is visable on the glass or the reflector of the appliance: Kerosene gets old in storage - hence another reason not to buy from wal-mart - I used to truck wine out of the Canandaigua region and there were convenience stores around that sold diesel (which is why I was there on occasion) and they also had pumps for kerosene; if you cannot find one of those, try locating someone who heats with a monitor; (fuel source kerosene) & see if you can buy from them - I hope a portion of this helps: perry

Pod,

Daylilies are very hardy but we're having temperatures in the negative numbers on a regular basis so it's essential to heat the greenhouse all the time. Just on Monday the actual temperature was -5 and the wind chill was -25. Schools closed because it was so cold. You can't not heat the greenhouse and expect to have live plants (not to mention these are all babies so not as hardy as adults who are in the ground).

Jeanetter, I'm using it to heat our house. It's been so cold here that extra heat has been needed. The heater is brand new so it's not a problem with the wick. I think the problem was the source of the fuel.
Perry,

I don't know how "old" the Walmart stuff is. They sell it in plastic containers. We don't want a propane heater because it's getting so expensive. We went with kerosene for that reason. There is no glass on this heater btw and no way to hook it up to a chimney. It's just like an electric heater but with a small tank that you pull out of the side to re-fill. Very different design from what was on the market years ago. No soot on the wick or the reflector either. This new kerosene came from one of the convenience stores. Much better results with this second batch. What is a "monitor" ? I'm assuming it's some type of heater?? I've never heard of it.

Thanks.

MollyD

Molly:
go to and you will probably find more info that you wanted - basically they are heaters capable of heating a whole home - directly vented thru the wall - fwiw: they work great, I have one in a rental unit as well at the instantaneous hot water heater here in my home: If you know what a toyostove is - they are basically the same thing:

I guess I could not put the website in so you could click on it - look for monitorproducts with the common www prefix and followed by the dot com

Thanks Perry, I'll take a look. We found another kerosene source today for $2.59/gal which is 40 cents cheaper than the first source (not Walmert!). Of course we'll keep looking to see if we can find it even cheaper.

Here's an updated photo of the inside of my greenhouse. I took it yesterday morning and already there are changes. The empty shelf space on the right is now full of more pots. I still have about 34 plants to move into 1 gallon pots and no space left for them!

MollyD

Molly!! What satisfaction. That is really nice. Look at those babies grow!! Looks great. Jeanette

They do indeed grow Jeanette! Everyday when I walk in there I can see the difference. If you go to my web page at http://www.frontiernet.net/~mollyd/Index.html you can see more on them and others. The section on greenhouse has a photo of a baby sending up a second fan!

Thanks!
MollyD

That's a very nice web page Molly. Beautiful flowers and your horse is very nice. Your one dog, the Malmute could be a twin to mine. Is he huge? Mine is, so must be a mix of some kind. Very long legs. Then I have a small one. Mutt & Jeff. Except they are females.

Lots of work you've got for yourself. Jeanette

Thanks Jeanette,

Nakoosah is a purebred Malamute. He weighs 147 pounds so yes he is very big! He looks even bigger in winter when his coat gets very full. Could your smaller dog be a Husky instead of a Malamute? They look very similar but Huskies are smaller.
The real work starts later when I have to move everything into the ground!

MollyD

Yeah Molly, that is about what my Malamute weighs and you could be right the little girl could be a Husky. I got her from a rescue and she is blind. She is a little stinker, but does very well. She certainly lets you know what she wants. A real talker.

I sure don't envy you all the work but they are looking so good right now, just imagine what they will be like when they are bigger. Very beautiful.

Jeanette

Here's photo of the first scape on a plant in the greenhouse. This plant is in it's second year of blooming.
The scape is where the flowers will bloom from.

MollyD

This is what it's flower last year looked like.

MollyD