The tray load, who wants to count them?
The Dawning of... Part 2...
{uproarious applause!!!} (such as is possible with those sinuous pincers)
Well done!!
I would say about 1700 seeds :*)
This message was edited Jan 12, 2007 2:27 PM
Oh Goddess of Pollen, what feats you have accomplished!
I wonder . . . .
In Fox's new book on martagons, he talks about apomixis:
Quoting:
In some plants although pollination takes place, fertilization may not. Evidently, the presence of the pollen on the stigma releases a stimulus that causes the development of the embryo and the endosperm to start. That is apomixis. There has been no growth of the pollen tube down to the eggs in the ovary and hence no cross-pollination or no union of sperm or male gametes to the awaiting eggs or female gametes. . . . It is very difficult to detect apomixis. The flower behaves exactily as if real fertilization took place. . .
It has been documented in martagons and other lilies, but I don't know about this one. Short of a DNA test, I think the only way to know is to grow them on. Oh what a drudgery and unrewarding process! (Facetious? Yeah, and just a teensy bit of sarcasm too.)
Rick
Hmm Lefty, that is interesting! Could the plastering of so much pollen have got the plant turned on to produce?
Not a little tickle with a brush, but a whole anther load slapped on, now we know the secret!
Now I have so many seeds, it would be wonderful to pass some around, but just what if I got a hybrid??? This means I will have to set up a special growing bed, oh the drudgery of it all!! (says she smiling)
I tried to get a pic of the embryo against the window, I can just see the line so will see if it comes out here.
Wouldn't it be fun if it was a case of male apomixis?
"A unique example of male apomixis has recently been discovered in the Saharan Cypress, Cupressus dupreziana, where the seeds are derived entirely from the pollen with no genetic contribution from the female "parent" (Pichot, et al., 2000, 2001)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apomixis
intercessor, I'm saying 1427 seeds, not that I've counted or even measured the length, but I think 10 seeds to 1/4" x 6" =240 x 6 cavities = 1440 - 13 for good luck! Robert's pincers took the 13.
Here's a lengthy description, and a chart, if you can understand it!
http://www.apomixis.de/back.htm
Fox did go on to explain a bit more on apomixis and stressed its complexity, and that it is not well understood in its entirety. I wish I could say I really did understand that whole flow chart, but it seems I've forgotten what some of those words/processes are. And that chart must certainly be a simplistic version, too!
Once in middle school I guessed the number of jelly beans in a large jar (well I was closest). My entry was 24XX. I was within 3 beans. The runner up was within 10 beans. I got the jelly beans, he got $10. What a rip!
But I'll take a stab at it - 1534. What's my prize? (He says with unconcionably.)
------- Sherleft, whose deductions are elemtary - of course
Hosta ventricosa doesn't even need the touch of pollen to set its own seed. It won't accept any pollen at all, so is usless for hybridizing as a pod parent, but its pollen is good to go.
R.
Boy, talk about set in his ways! Who does this ventricosa guy think he is, that he can't be improved upon? Sounds to me like a big evolutionary no-no. Unless . . . . he is prone to mutations(The thought sends shivers up Sherleft's spine, as he recalls Janet's pincer prone creation.)
Hmm, the pod was 7" long if I recall correctly, but allowing for tid bits and pod at the ends, who knows! I hope I'm not expected to count them! No count, sorry no prizes! I did the same for my daughter at a school money raising night, it was a large jar of dried peas I think. I counted the no. of peas on the top layer as best I could, then multiplied by the no. of rows deep or what would appear to be rows, and it was 3 short! The prize was something the headmaser (who didn't like that I had a brain) dragged up for her, the cheapest nasty carded lot of plastic rubbish he could find. He did of course choose for himself the best prize for winning a game of bingo.
Nature seems to have sorted it's own rules where needs be, H ventricosa probably found it had the best set of genes to reproduce so shunned anything inferior. Just think if there is only one colony of a plant for miles, or only one at all, then to reproduce by seeds it would have to be self fertile, nature provides. Man doesn't yet understand much of it, but isn't nature clever?
Just imagine this lily, perhaps it is from a remote area such as L poilanei, it looks very much like it. No other populations to cross with, so nature provides. It may bypass the complicated process of acceptance of a foreign body, go straight to home base as it doesn't need to modify itself, it recognises it's own genes.
The second lily to open has a seed pod on it too, which is still OK but not as big and strong, I did use the pollen from #1 on it but really have no idea whether it was the pollinator, the pollen looked OK but it was at least 9 days old by then. The plant itself wasn't as strong as #1, so it will be interesting to see if it has made good seed, but probably better to stick with the strongest #1. Then again, #1 had brown pollen, #2 had yellow. So, I would be interested to see what #2's seed produced, brown/yellow pollen, strong/weak plants. But that is more work.
Sherleft, the pinchers of pincers may be the strongest, and other influences may just add defects. Consider this, IF nature has developed a strong survivor, then nature may also decide to stop weaker influences. Look at the people in Africa who have developed HIV but have strong 'T' cells and don't get aids. Nature makes survivors 'just in case'.
Points well taken, Wallaby. There is much we just don't understand, and the "ventricosa phenomenon" is not unique. Even so, self fertilization could still produce beneficial evolutionary traits.
The #2 pod of L. philippinense matured a week or so ago, nothing but chaff! I put pollen from #1 on #2.
Does this mean the Great Lilium Polygons, or UPO's, or UGO's have played a part, or even L gloriosoides, in the fetilisation of pod #1? Hmmm, hmmmmm, hmmmmmmmmmm.
Be sure to take a look at this!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/693148/
And I thought those "pirate" names were Pard originals. And we just missed the big day too: http://www.talklikeapirate.com/
Aww heck, I got excited and started last week. :)
Avast me hearties! Take heed! When ye speak to the pard wench ye speak to one deep in pirate country! We pirates are a jolly bunch as you can see. Sherleft!!! Did ye not believe that Cap'n Slappy and ol' Chumbucket were real? Aye, as real as the PRODOFFPARD they are! As real as my pirate crew here, they are! Sherleft, ye should walk the plank for disbelieving, as should Watson if he ever shows up. Just for being absent way too long. (Or on a mission, whatever...).
Ska-reeeeeeem!
Where the parrot?
R.
Watson, you are back. 'Bout time. I was kidding, you don't have to walk the plank after all. Mainly because real pirates always set the plank over shark infested waters which seem to be somewhere else at the moment...
Pilfering Polly was guarding the refreshments and missed the photo-op. Unfortunately, in spite of his presence, the Scurvy Dog Doo Doos, Jolly Roger Jellies, Double Rum Cake and Grog all disappeared during his watch...
I worry about you people. :) LOL
An' which one be the pard-wench?
The photographer, of course.
Oh, pard, you crack me up.
Oh, what a fun time you all must have had!
R.
Aye, it was fun time, it was... It was booked as the first annual "Talk Like a Pirate" square dance. We all be squares, ya know! Caller pirate guy (left rear) was very creative at adapting his repertoire to pirate talk lyrics And of course we all did as we were told!
pard looks like you all had a great time!!!!!!
Gloria
Wanted to see the pard-wench. Curses!
My Lilium philippinense which produced seeds last year (pollinated by L. gloriosoides??) has a very tall stem, over 6' but I haven't measured it, and 6 flowers on it! 3 are now open, and I had some L. gloriosoides pollen in the freezer, so.......we shall see what happens!
Interesting to note the flowers have a much darker purple on the outers, but it has been much colder than last year.
Great looking buds, wallaby! (I always shudder a little when this thread pops to the top, lol). I believe it is not at all unusual for cool weather to bring out more color in lilies. Lily time is over for me. The last petals on my latest, L. speciosum album, dropped last week. Not bad for October, though!
What a shame I didn't post a pic of the lilies when they opened, I lost them soon after in a crash! They were gorgeous!
The seed I grew from L. philippinense I sowed last March or thereabouts. I have two 8" pots of still green seedlings in the greenhouse where they get any sun available. The tallest one which is around 15-18" high has had a bud on for some time, it developed late in the year. It looks to be getting more bulbous at the base, keeping my fingers, toes and pincers crossed!
Snicker-snack!!
Is that a vorpal blade?
:-)
"vorpal" ~ weapon with a magically enhanced ability to behead enemies.
Hmm, I thought it looked like a large external pincer but I may have been wrong. The evolutionary process of self protection has been extremely quick in this case!
The bud shape is interesting, without hunting down a pic of a L. philippinense bud it looks to have the bulbous base of L. gloriosoides (from memory or maybe wishful thinking). L. philippinense I think was more bulbous towards the nub end when it was mature but time will tell.
No pincers though!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=2665956
No pincers . . . . too bad. But a vorpal blade doesn't need pincers.
Well, it's started to open! Green so far, and I just know that Sherleft will tell me I will have to wait until next flowering to get a better idea. BUT, green is interesting!
AND, I think I can see some tiny future pincers in the making for the next flowering!
You know me too well. But still, a good example of something gone awry.
The only lily that should open like that is Lilium lophophorum
http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/images/Lilium/lophophorum1.jpg
And I don't have that one! I should get flowers from some of the seedlings later this year, as I did with the original.
Oooohhhhhhh...
Shhhhh..... don't tell anyone that it is really the offspring of a very special UGO that was hidden in a very secret place in wallaby's messy greenhouse....
Gulp, U-GREEN-0...eeekkkk!!