I have Penta but need to learn how to get the seeds. Karen
Butterfly Host Plant Seed Exchange? Anyone interested?!
Well, sounds like we have some posters actively looking for Host Plant Seeds (or cuttings?) and some new recruits to the BF gardening forum and learning more about BFs!
How 'bout we do the first trading round with exclusively Host Plant seeds/material then we follow up in a few weeks with a Trading thread just for BF Nectar Plant Seeds. I'll get the host thread started Monday.
Doing exlusively Larval Host Plants first we will keep the focus on learning which butterfly species like which particular plants for laying their eggs first.. And learn to differenciate between host plants and plants that are simply used for nectaring.
In stage two of our trading, we will learn favored nectar plants and trade those seeds.
Then we can do more trading threads in springtime when the season (for us up north, at least) really gets going!
EFG, I think that is a kind of swallowtail, but I don't know the bush. I think Azaleas are nectaring plants for BFs but I can stand corrected on that. Does anyone know for sure? In any case, it's a lovely picture!
Windy--Thanks. We shall see how the interest is in the passion flower. It is such a pretty vine and the frits are such a favored butterfly to have in the garden...But I don't know if it grows better from seed or cuttings. Anybody know that one?
Now I have to look through my seed box and see what I have!
There goes T, organizing again, just sneaks right outta her at prime organizational moments ;D
Sounds good T!
~Sunny
Johnny's seeds online sells the passiflora incarnata seed and says the germination is erratic.
I have never grown it from seed, but it probably has re-seeded itself over the years as I now have many more plants than the original one.
I did dig it once, but the roots are deep and hard to get all of them. I might be able to dig some roots, but not sure. Maybe I will try tomorrow. I tore all the vines down to get ready for winter and clean up the area. Then as luck would have it, I spotted a gulf Frit butterfly! ARGH! She will probably find a vine somewhere in the field across the street to lay eggs on.
I threw many green ones away, because I had so many fruits this year. I kept about a dozen or slightly more and am storing them for now in the garage.
I may experiment over the winter with germinating some. I have some liquid smoke which is supposed to help with germinating hard to germinate seeds.
what does liquid smoke do? I know what it is, but I have never heard of using it that way.
This is information from the JLhudson seed germination page.
SMOKE TREATMENT
Smoke treatment often helps germination of plants from fire-prone environments, particularly Mediterranean-climate plants such as many species from California, Chile, Australia, South Africa, and the Mediterranean region. For a list of genera that have responded to smoke treatment, click here: Smoke Genera.
Prepare a dilute smoke solution by adding one part commercial smoke flavoring to nine parts water. Either soak the seeds in this solution overnight (or until they swell), or by water the pot or flat once with this solution. Smoke flavoring is found in the spice and flavoring or barbecue section of the grocery store . It comes in small brown bottles of liquid, called "liquid smoke" or "hickory seasoning". Look for the "all natural" type that lists only water and natural smoke concentrate as ingredients. "Wright's" is the brand we find out here in California.
Smoke treatment is still experimental, and you may have to try different dilutions. Let us know your results! Another method is to burn a layer of straw or pine needles on top of the flat.
Edited to add a link to some good info.
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Germination.htm
This message was edited Oct 6, 2006 10:59 PM
liquid smoke...that's a new one on me! I sure learn something here every day. you'll have to let us know if it works. thanks for the link, windy
gram ~a girl~
Here's a good write up about Passionflowers/Maypops (which is the kind I have) culture and propagation .
Interestingly, Floridata says to plant the whole fruit fresh off the vine for best seed seed germinanation. (They must be pretty messy to de-seed!)
If you are using dried seeds which are known for erratic germination, one way to break the seed coat is to soak them in passionflower fruit juice dilution.
Also says Passionflower is easy to propagate by cuttings, which is good to know and it gives instructions.
Nice web page from Floridata http://www.floridata.com/ref/p/pass_cae.cfm
This message was edited Oct 7, 2006 9:07 AM
More on Host Vines--- Pipevine Swallowtails use this one---
DUTCHMAN'S PIPE 'grandiflora' for Southern Climates--easy to propagate from layering and can be grown from seed, too.
http://www.floridata.com/ref/A/aris_ele.cfm
The Dutchman's Pipe 'durrior', common in northern zones, can be propagated by cuttings or seeds according to
http://www.botany.wisc.edu/garden/db/speciesdetail.asp?genus=Aristolochia&species=durior
Also known as Aristolachia, Calico flower, Dutchman's pipe, pipe vine
Anyone have Dutchman's Pipe for trade? Karen
I'm working on PV cuttings. We'll see how it goes.
Maggie
I would also be interested in the Dutchman's Pipevine for trade or postage. ~Becky~
I'm still here T, Just been preparing for the swap RU mostly, and what I have from there will take a new inventory, hopefully by the first of this coming week.
I also expect to get a pipevine someone is bringing for trade to the RU, and I sure will start some cuttings (Becky), and if it works out like the passionvines did, we should be in bussiness. Passionvine takes very well to cuttings (Peggy)!!
T ~ I love the idea of planting the whole fruit on those, seems like it would work to me. Isn't that natures way? (From what I know you can't pick them, when the fruit is ripe it falls, and then the seeds and fruit meld into the ground and make a new plant.)
As for the other host plants (I have seeds for a few of them), we will see in the next week/s what I can make of them, and what I can offer.
Bflybo, I would like to try growing some rue from seed, save me some please. I have some you might want me to trade you back... really!
Gram~a~girl ;oD~ I am learning so many new things too, from here, and being provoked to research which I can be very tenatious at..lol.
So glad to see all the interrest in this, I will help out in any way I can!
:oDeb
A few days ago I saw this beauty on my Mexican sage. I'm pretty sure it's a Pipevine Swallowtail, so now I really, really want a Dutchman's Pipe vine. But I'm also wondering if it's something I should wait til spring to plant. Anyone have thoughts on this and other host plants? I have 60 or 70 milkweed plants that are a few inches high - most are cuttings I made that are sprouting, or re-sprouting plants I bought that the cats stripped of leaves. I'm wondering how I'll protect them from freezes (wishing for a greenhouse!).
Deb, thanks for the info on passionflower vine cuttings. I'm going to try some now to see how they do.
Peggy
I have quite a few host and nectar plants in my yard, but the weather here is still very warm, so I don't have many seeds yet. Perhaps seeds will start forming on most of them by the end of this month when it traditionally starts getting cooler at night. I have maypop and passion vines but no fruit yet. I grew the 10 Maypop vines from seeds this year and they may not bloom or produce fruit/seeds this first year. The GF have been using them as host plants the past 3 months! The seasons are different in Florida in my zone. We honestly don't usually get our first really cold snap until Dec. or Jan. We have short Falls and Winters, so I don't get seeds until much later.
Deb - I'd love a cutting from a Dutchman vine! I don't know much about doing cuttings from vines. I tried it once with a bleeding heart plant that was dying because I moved it twice and it just went into shock and died. 5 of the cuttings didn't work, but one did and it is just now starting to grow up my fence with some of the other vines. You'll have to tell me more here in this forum or in a d-mail or someone could direct me to a past forum about growing plants from cuttings. Perhaps I can do some cuttings from my own Passion and Maypop vines for a few folks. My vines are in their first season, so they aren't real big yet.
Well, let's see...some of the pipevines and maypops are hardy in northern zones. But some have to be taken in and 'wintered over' in the garage or basement (or green house for those lucky people!)
As you get further south I am not sure how to best handle the cuttings and seedlings. You may have to use a sunny windowsill as a houseplant or a protected micro-climate in your garden, depending on your zones and plant hardiness.. Just don't get too attached to them as the cats will gobble them up come spring!
It might be worth it to baby a few vines along through the winter to get an early start in springtime to attract the first butterflies in your area. (That's what I'm going to do.)
There are instructions in different threads on how best to 'winter over' vines and other perennials in the garage for those of us in, say, zone 6...if anyone has this info handy, let us know, or I'll see if I can google it...
This is really getting interesting!
t, that's exactly what I was wondering about. how to keep those tender vines going over the winter. the maypops are the only hardy passifloras, correct? I was looking at the Brushwood Nursery web site yesterday and they mentioned that the other passifloras make good houseplants, so I'm picturing this huge vine growing all over my sun room. or would you take cuttings and start over each year?
gram
I took a cutting from my cassia to see if I can root it, cause I would like to pot it up and put it in my new butterfly cage. We'll see if it roots. Karen
Dear TropicalKaren,
According to Butterflies through Binoculars: The West by Jeffrey Glassberg, cassias are a host plant that is used by a lot of butterflies in our area. I have never heard of the cassia before this. If you could point me in the right direction where I can get more information about the cassia, I would appreciate it. I have probably seen it and just didn't recognize it.
Thanks,
Chuck
Hi Karen,
I'd be interested to see if the cuttings will root on your cassia. I have a few of them. One has big seed pods that I'm waiting for them to pull. The other has blooms and the beginnings of seed pods. I planned on saving the seeds to put in the BF garden next year.
The ones I have were cut way back last year. They came right back up this spring. Of course, we only get 2-3 really cold days here.
I don't think we did anything special last year with the cassias, but don't remember for sure. We do have a small area that we put tarps on and cram as many plants as we can in there, but most of the bigs ones sstayed out because there just wasn't much room. I hope to use my deck area as a wintering place also this year.
Chuck, here is a photo of mine. I've always known them as candlestick plants, until this year.
As for the exchange, I'll be happy to participate. Someone's going to have to tell me what the seeds of the milkweed look like though because I can't say that I've seen any yet.
Janet
WTG Janet!
Cassia is one of my favorite plants of all. My sister and I have always called them Candletrees, and we have enjoyed them for many years here in North Texas. I have also learned that they can be overwintered here if they are cut back and covered well.
Sulphers find Cassia as their host plant, but ants and wasps continually patrol them for the eggs and any tiny larvae. The plant itself actually attracts those ants by secreting sugars which attract them. So it is a real challenge in many areas to see a multitude of yellow butterflies coming from them. Many people when, and if they find a sulpher cat on their Cassia probably need to take them off to a safe haven and clip off fresh Cassia leaves, (which grows new branches every day or two), to give the caged cats until they form a chrysalis...
:oDeb
Thanks Deb for that great info. I noticed the ants on the seeds and blooms.
I have quite a variety of BF's in the yard. I do see the yellow sulphurs on the cassias now and then, but they never sit still long enough for me to get their picture. Those plants are close to the back fence, which is right next to a drainage ditch. I see the sulphurs sneak over the fence, then dart back over. Just a peek is all I get of them. So I don't know if there will be any cats or not, but I'll start looking. I never thought to check for cats on them.
Some of the plants we "rescued" from Lowe's last night were different colors of lantana than I already have, pentas, and blue mist. At 50 cents to a dollar a piece for them, I thought I'd save some of my planting money for next year and get a bit of a head start on them now. Truth be told, I just can't pass up a withering plant and was pleasantly surprised that the ones on that rack of undesireables were the very plants I planned on buying anyhow.... just planned for NOT last night.
Janet
I have to tell you that I honestly believe the discounted plants can sometimes be the best because they are neglected and usually root-bound in the nursery pots. I think all that abuse makes many of them hardier! I have had some of the best luck with clearanced plants. They are usually my best performers in the garden after they become established. (Maybe they appreciate a good home more and reward me with excellent results?) Goodness... if music helps them grow, just imagine what a good home would do for them! LOL!
I hope I am not too late. I would love to be part of this exchange. Though as a newbie, I have no seeds to exchange I do have some rooted cuttings of the butterfly weed in my garden.
Stacey
Welcome aboard Stacey! You are not too late, since we've not really started. This thread was just to see if others were interested in trading, so we've really not started yet.
I've never had my Candletree's come back, even with our light winters. They do reseed but they don't come up until late. I've got one that's just now about 2' tall but it will take off this month. I will try and collect seeds this year and start some early next year. I'm wanting a Winter Cassia, Senna bicapsularis, now.
EFG, your butterfly is a Tiger Swallowtail. The left side looks like it has 2 tails but not the right. I've only seen one pic of a Two-tailed Tiger so I'm not sure of the exact differences. Take more pics if you see it again.
Many garden flowers, herbs and vegies attractive to butterflies can be aquired for from about .49 to .99 cents from an outlet for Thompson & Morgan: http://www.valueseeds.com/
Here's another butterfly plant link - it is redundant to what's already here, but I like the way the host/nectar icons make it easy to take in the information: http://www.gardencountry.com/pages/butterfly.html
Seed snatchin around here is a little like an Indiana Jones adventure - Maryland has hunting in the parks almost year round now (Our previous governor at least allowed "free Sundays", where hunting ceased just for that one day a week so everyone else could enjoy the parks). To take a walk away from the sharp shooters, entrance fees are now required for more tourist amenities and diminished natural habitats. I don't think DNR can even spell the word "habitat" grrr.
Amazing what you can learn from seed/plant swaps around DG. Tabasco, I haven't worked through your whole thread yet, but so far it's an enormous "motherlode" of knowledge - not to mention huge incentive to be kinder to the plant hosting Us.
Thank you.
karen
Something to try with Candletree, I am going to try it this winter myself:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/652500/ is a thread when I was asking about my Candletree, in essence here Patootie (Jackie) tells how her neighbor makes his come back. And there are some great pictures..
Y'all I have seeds for these for you to start in Jan of Feb indoors. I will send 5 seeds to everyone who dmails me with their address, until I run out of 'give away' stock. I think every garden should have one of these majestic plants. People here have been very generous with me, and I can only grow so many of them, they get huge!
Oh, and Paige~ when you find the Winter Cassia let me know I want a few seeds of that if they/you can spare them. THANK YOU soooo much for all the plants yesterday! I am so anxious to get the back-yard underway..and what you gave was just what I needed! tytytyty!
Becky~ I think you may have something there with the sale plants.. I bought my Buddelia 1/2 off and it thanks me every day with beautiful White Profussion blooms. Same with my Passionvines I bought at Wmart for 6.95 ea. That's a great tip Becky! I agree.. Dmail me Becky I need to put your address on my list for Hyacinth seeds..Thanks to Paige (KKB) I have WHITE TOO!! I will send you White and Purple. :oD!!
Awesome saves janet!
I am going over to Lowe's today to see what they have.. I need to get some different soil stuff to palnt what I got yesterday at the RU. My kids are out of school this week and I am going to recruit their help. Thanks for sharing your pic here, it is SO beautiful!!! Can't get enough of those! Please share more if you like. Keep looking for those cats:o). lol
(blue)Karen:o)~
Don't be too dissapointed if the cuttings don't take. Something tells me that is one plant that might not take to propagating that way. (I would love to be wrong, though). Seed seems to be the very best way to start them, and like I said I am going to try covering them like Jackie suggested in my Cassia thread. I think I will dmail everyone who responded in that thread and see if they can join us over here.. They were very generous and know a lot about Cassia. Thanks for sharing those links, I will study them in a bit.
Btw~ Cassia leaves have a phenominal medicinal value for different skin problems...and more.
Great sites Karen!! I saved them, and you weren't kidding about the prices! I will be ordering something from them as soon as i can..:oD I like the way they put together the second site you listed as well...good reference!
Thank you!!
Hello all
I am kinda new at the gardening thing but I am trying to get a butterfly and humming bird garden started I don't have any seeds yet except a lot of Texas star seed but I would love to get some for the butterflies. I am in south east Texas zone 10 and they say we so many differnt types of butterflys I like to have them all around my yard this spring!
Thank you in advance
Jesse
Welcome aboard Jesse!! We're very glad to know you! Your in the right place to start with. We will help you however we can!
The reason I am trying to root the cassia (which is still alive in water), is that my bush doesn't have pods or flowers yet. It is only 6-7 months in the ground. I noticed that the ants and other insects eat the eggs of the sulfurs and so I want a small cassia to put into my new butterfly house.
Frank, this is my cassia: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1328/index.html
Cool Karen, Keep us posted on how that goes. I'm sure whatever you learn will be helpful to many of us. (whose frank?)
Remember everyone to click the "Watch Thread" on this one so you can read entries as they come in.
Deb
TropicalKaren,
Thanks for the link. I had never seen a cassia before. It is a beautiful plant although a little too big for my yard. I am going to check at our local nursery of a cultivar that is smaller. If anyone knows of a cultivar like this, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Chuck (Frank...lol)
Chuck, (or whatever ;-) )
My cassia is easy to keep short just by hacking.
Would cuttings be useful for the Host Plant Exchange?
I am cutting back my PassionFlower Vine (the kind that grows in more northern climes) and will take cuttings if anyone is interested....
t, I would definitely be interested in the northern passiflora, if you want to save some for me for postage.
gram
Yes definatly T!
The cuttings taken from the tip back about 12" should be fine to ship. Leave at least 3 leaves and the tip tender. Just wrap the cut end with a paper towel, and put in plastic bag zipped to close in the wet. Then seal it in a bit larger bag, big enough to curl it around inside and seal it shut. Should probably be packed with a piece of cardboard too, to prevent breaking. The recipient can put emmediatly into a bottle of water near a well lit window, and watch it until roots form. Then plant it. Pretty sure that will work.
I can be a guinnea pig for you on the whole shipping and rooting bit. Also I am surely going to be sending you anything I can for sharing and for your own garden. I still need to find out what you need and what I have you could use.
Today I cleared out a lot of gruff from by back yard, and bought some various bags of peat, soil, compost, manure, and new top soil etc.. and a big roll of weed block to put under it all. I need to get it done because of all the new plants I got at the RU. Then I will have time to inventory all the new seeds. I will share all I possibly can.
Fennel seed from the spice section of the grovery store is about $4 a bottle, and it comes up very fast, suprisingly viable seed! This is something everyone can do. I have bronze Fennel in my garden now but it hasn't seeded yet. I have a few packs of tripple curl Parsley, and some Dill seeds. I have plenty of the Blue Crown PV cuttings I need to cut and root.
I also have a limited amount of Queen Anns Lace seed I can share with you T if you want some.
That's it for now, I'm bushed!
:oD