How many seeds/containers are you planning?

Thanks all for the follow-up on containers (watches the sky in anticipation of flying milk jugs ejecting from airliners...) I happen to be in the path of Atlanta's airport so...LOL!

Just the two of us don't consume much milk and my neighbors are all 2 people households as well, older, that don't drink milk at all I don't think.

Thanks for the tip on the 4-6 pots Shirley...hmmm, more alternate planning required.

We're off to Walmart for potting soil and seed packets and other nifty things :)

~Sunny

Hineni:

The plastic containers don't necessarily have to be milk. Do you drink juice or bottled water, etc? Don't forget to look at the Wintersown site for more container suggestions. http://www.wintersown.org

Sunny - I use the 4" transplant pots almost exclusively now. I fill them almost to the top with soil (they are about 3 1/4" tall), and pop them into a plastic bag, with cut up venetian blinds to hold the plastic off the soil and provide some headroom for when the seedlings start to appear.

Like this: http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2637324

No worries about moisture at all. Of course, 4" of soil would be better, but 3" ain't bad. 16 oz. plastic cups work well too.

You can still use your milk jugs, even if you cut the tops totally off. Put some kind of support in the four corners, for headroom, and slip a gallon-sized plastic bag over the top, taping it down to keep it from flying off, if necessary.

PV

I think, Sunny, that we newbies will all find how we like to do it ourselves, through trial and error. What somebody else does may seem like way too much trouble to me. (I'm looking for the lazywoman's guide to lots of cheap/free/healthy plants.) What I'm planning to do (benign neglect) may seem lazy, slipshod or, well, negligent. I don't think there is one answer.

xxx, Carrie

I agree with Carrie - everyone has their own way of doing things. Perhaps try a bit of several ideas and see which one works best for you? Then you will know exactly how to do it the next year.

Thanks PV and all,

I think I'll try a variety of methods and see which is most successful. So far I have the deep pan type containers, transplant pots (4" up to 8"), soda bottles, water bottles and milk jug or two, plus some other assorted containers. My biggest concern about some of the containers is head space for the emerging seedlings (mostly the carry out containers)

LOL, I don't have any spare venetian blinds lying around, so I'd have to use another type of support, maybe bamboo pieces, as I have a few of those to try your method PV. I think DH would weed-whack my plants if I stole the wooden blind extras we have and used them for baggie supports 0_0 haha.

This is going to be soooo fun this winter, I can't wait until we start the progress reports. Dang, I wish there were something I could plant today! Oh, wait, I'm at work. Scratch that.

:D

~Sunny

Hineni: Once it starts warming up in the spring, you will be venting the containers and then taking the lids off. You need a few inches of headroom, but by the time your seedlings are 2 or 3" tall you will have the covers off anyway.

- Brent

Hi all--

I made my first gallon jug wintersowing container today...I used a wood burning tool (pheee-yew!) to make the holes and a box cutter to make the little fly-open window. I made the window too low on the jug, and 4" of soil won't fit in without falling out the hole I made, so I am lucky I only made one prototype!

I read where someone said to take off the labels from the jugs. Is that for aesthetics or is there another reason? And is there any easy way to get the labels off? They were really hard to get off and I didn't really succeed.

All-in-all it was a very valuable day. I will probably have seeds to fill 200 jugs, but no way I have the time to make that many unless it goes a LOT faster as you go along. This one took more time than I care to admit to, and looked like it had been made by a Kindergardener. (My apologies to the 5 year olds!) LOL!

Suzy

Well, congratumalations! Like a kindergartener, you say? Hmmm, I can't let that happen to me! My DH has boxcutters lying all over the place. I'm planning to use those ..... somewhere where the blood won't stain. LOL

Carrie

Illoquin, I'm cutting gallon jugs on the three sides that don't have the label, and use the label side like a hinge. To answer the thread question, I think I'm going to draw the line at two trash bags full of 2-liter and gallon jugs. Oh yeah, I found some plastic- lidded foil pans at the dollar store...
Trash night last week, I saw one of those plastic pallettes or tray kind of things that the 2 liters are transported in by the soda distributors, but it was pouring rain, and I failed to snag it. I'm gonna keep my eye out for another one, but it's probably illegal, like owning milk crates. Maybe I can send some flowers... I'm also trying to come up with a couple kid's wagons or something I can move some seedlings with if I need to

It's illegal to own milk crates? Well, I never said I was 100% law-abiding, did I? Oh, duh, you probably mean the ones that say 'HOOD' on the side, not the ones you get at office supply stores to put files in.

People, the 'sowing' doesn't start until 'winter' starts, which has always been toward the end of December. Am I behind in the action by waiting a little while before I start accumulating huge quantaties of clear soda bottles? (At the rate my DH empties them, it will take me at least a day or two...) I want to follow the straight and narrow here, or maybe it's the wild and wooly.

xxx, Carrie

You know, that is a good idea - pre-cutting the containers. They will probably store more compactly that way. Another project for this weekend!

Now, now Carrie just as there are garden loving procrastinators...we also have the garden loving eager beavers... and I'm sure a blend of the two inbetween! :0)

Is there a better tool to cut the "window" than a box cutter? A tiny jig saw, maybe, or something like a soldering iron? I envision some very quick method for prepping these.

I just saw this ad for a soldering iron and hot knife set, which looks perfect. Has anyone tried anything like this? http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/X-ACTO-hobby_tools/BEU26

This message was edited Oct 6, 2006 1:12 PM

That tool does look useful...though I guess then you risk cuts AND burns. I found that a serrated steak knife (using a sawing action) cut plastic better than a utility knife/box cutter.

- Brent

I just make sure the blade is sharp and my fingers are not in the way

It looks perfect, although I wouldn't know, I'm busy procrastinating. Doesn't that sawing wear out your knives? How about a pruning saw, or a jig saw, meant for sawing?

xxx, Carrie
Chair of Procrastinators Club
Winter Sowing Forum
Daves Garden
www

Electric knife maybe?

I've used the box cutter and it's not very easy and dangerous to boot. Michael's has two different wood burning kits and they both come with a cutting tip. I'm going to give that a try

Can't remember who was saying that they cut the window too low, but that's why there is duct tape.

I use a box cutter and/or scissors. Pretty dangerous. I think I wore out my dedicated kitchen knife.

Can you actually cut a container with a soldering iron? or only burn holes?

Karen

The tool on the link I listed above claims to be perfect for cutting plastic. I've never tried anything like it. I'm going to try it -- I'll see if I can find something similar at a craft store and I'll report back.

happy_maccomb: Please let us know if you find it, and where. It looks pretty cool. I'm not a very "crafty" person, so I know nothing of this stuff. See, I would have gone to Home Depot to look for one. I guess they wouldn't carry such a thing?

Karen

I am going to add some advice about burning plastic. Do it outside, the fumes are toxic. As an artist I have learned the hard way about materials that are hard on the lungs and burning/melting plastic is one of them.

That tool looks cool though, I will probably stay with a box cutter my lungs don't need any more plastic fumes.

I found an Xacto brand soldering iron and "hot knife" (just a regular xacto knife that heats up) at a craft store for $15.99, I think it was. I'll try it soon -- but probably not this weekend because we have guests. It is intended for cutting plastic, so my guess is that it will work like a charm.

Sunny, I am in your zone and we're neighbors. I was the queen of overzealous wintersowing this past year, I should give you some pointers.. First of all.. while it was lots and lots of fun to see all the seeds coming up, I don't have a full time staff to plant all this stuff and I still have plants in pots and thats after I gave all kind of stuff away.. However, now I know what seeds worked for me and which did not. From memory... No, excell spreadsheet!!

This picture is of all the pots and I just put the seeds in there. For me personally, I probably will not do it like this again.. if I direct seed like this, I will do it in a fertile place where I would like them to grow.. right in the garden.. It was wayyy toooo much to plant and now I know that. The next time I do it, I will try try try to collect as many small plastic coke containers as possible or half gallon milk jugs and give each 2-3 seeds depending on germination rates... Now it is a quandry to decided to do this as some seeds just plain did not germinate for me at all and it certainly is more work up front to put soil in each container and then patiently place the seed... as opposed to just filling up one container with seed and then seeing which do and which dont grow.. However, on the back side, once the seeds grow, if you are going to wintersow as much as I did, there was no way in tarnation I could plant as much as I sowed, and it would have been much more helpful for me to have had the plants in their individual containers so as to not have ripped them away at the roots from their brothers and sisters in the same pots.... This is only because I have 3 & 5 year olds and I am not assured the chance to get out there and plant before the plants start getting too large for the containers. This way, I could let things such as perenials get a little larger without the angst of knowing I was going to have to rip them away from each other and have them stressed, as I waitied too long to plant them out.

Onto the next picture..

Susan

Now, here is the greenhouse effect I gave them... Now for the truth of wintersowing in our zone.......... chances are you will fry your plants more than they will need to be covered... I learned this the hard way too.. it just doesn't get cold enough here in our zone to warrant a set up where you take great care to cover everything through the winter.. They just need to be covered the very few times that temps will reach freezing and you will be fine.. When I kept them covered at first I noticed they were too hot and dried out too fast. Also, if this looks like a method someone may want to use... you must make sure that your plants do not touch the plastic when and if it freezes, as they will be toast...

Susan

This message was edited Oct 8, 2006 9:22 AM

Can you say full throttle woman??

Here is a wintersown zinnia.. :)

Susan

See what I mean.. and this is just a few pots... There were plants everywhere!!!!!!!!

Susan

This message was edited Oct 8, 2006 9:34 AM

Another tip... pay a little more for the better seed and the plant you will want to have in your garden.. Do the homework if there is info about the plant. recognize that even if you can only afford the smallest packet of seed, if you grow it yourself, you will eventually have all the seed you can handle once it starts to produce. For example.. I have the regular gallardia and it bloomed this past year after having been wintersown the winter before last.. Now, it's been a great plant, but now I know about gallarida goblin and it stays a little more compact and the stems don't look leggy after bloom and such.. so now I'm going to grow the goblin seeds which I deadheaded for free! :)

Susan

Wow neighbor Susan, that's an awesome set up but yes, you'd have to be wonder woman to get all that transplanted out...LOL (although I've read some of your posts and you sound close to that status in organization!) Especially with the little toddler punkins you've got :)

I've been toying with WS in ground, but DH still hasn't cleared all the new space (read: currently uncultivated AT ALL) I want to scape next year and I'm not sure he'll get it done before it's time to WS as he's training for some new things at work. So I'm wrestling with trying to design garden space that isn't actually garden space yet in my mind (and on paper). I have four small areas in the front yard to work with, and then the untamed madness in the back, plus the south side of the house (also wild space), in addition to the veggie plot he tilled up for me recently.

I'll have to pick your brain (if you don't mind) about what WS'd well for you here in our zone. I do use a spreadsheet because I can remember things just fine for work, but I don't trust my memory for gardening as I'm so new to it (right at 6 months) and I get things swapped around, like what does good where and when I can expect to try to transplant it. I hope it will become like work and get embedded in my brain as I continue to learn and do! I'll send you a D-mail later, but right now weeds are calling my name and I have been putting off weeding for two weekends :(

What are those containers that you used? They are huge! I've actually been saving all of our bread bags and other stuff to actually sit the containers in, open, and saving all the twist ties and things in a little box so that I can just go out and close them up when I need to. I figure the hardest part of all of this will come when we're in February and we get that swinging weather from warm to cold, to cool to nearly hot and back to cold and by March I'm hoping to get started on getting things in the ground (well, I CAN dream right?)

Thanks for the pointers and the zinnia is beautiful, you full-throttle woman...(grin)

~Sunny

Thanks Sunny.. Okay, When I joined Daves, I was absolutely new to gardening, and while I may have a few plants now, I'm still learning..

Okay, heres a tip for you.. This is a departure from the tried and true wintersowing methods used and described here.. however, I'm doing it..

You say that you have uncultivated land around your home?? Okay, if you can cut down the grass/weeds/whatever and put down a sheet of clear plastic from HD.. The kind they sell on rolls for $40 or so... Lay down as much of of the plastic as you want to create in bed space and if you have neighborhood covenants or don't like the looks, do this in the back yard. It's called Soil Solarization and It will kill off all the stuff growing underneath, as well as all weed seeds present on top of the soil and keep it laying in wait for the seeds of your choice.. You must hold down the plastic with rocks/small terra cotta pots and such or else the wind will take it. Also, overextend the plastic at least 6 inches+ past the point where you want your bed, as the grass/weeds somehow survive on the edge.. Wait until it is time to wintersow the seeds you want with the plastic in place and whalla... A perfect weedless bed for your seeds.. I'll go take pictures of the beds I'm creating for spring and show you what I'm doing. :)

The pots were cut down 40 gallon black plastic pots I found for free at large nursery's that had them by the dumpster.

Article on soil solarization (I have never watered first, (maybe I should??) dug a trench or pulled weeds before plastic.. just mowed them down and covered. They will die!)

http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniques/solarization.htm
Soil Solarization

If there were one sure way to destroy virtually every kind of harmful insect egg and larvae in your garden soil, would you be interested? How about if the process were easy, cheap, and carried a host of other benefits along with it? Solarization is a simple, five-step process that kills insects, plant diseases, nematodes, harmful fungi, and weed seeds. At the same time, helpful microorganisms within the soil apparently benefit, possibly form the lack of competition. Soil that has been solarized allows plants to draw on the nutrients, especially nitrogen, calcium, and magnesium more readily. Seeds germinate more quickly. Plants grow faster and stronger, often maturing earlier with substantially higher yields than in unsolarized soil.

Solarization works in the same way as a greenhouse, where a transparent covering, in this case 3 or 6 mm plastic sheeting, traps the sun's heat. After several days of sunshine, soil temperatures rise to as high as 140 degrees at the surface and well offer 100 degrees as far down as 18 inches. It takes four to six weeks of sunny weather to pasteurize the soil. For most of the USA, that means planning to spread plastic somewhere between the end of June and the first of September.

Any size plot, down to a 3-foot wide bed, will retain enough heat to do the job, although the larger the area, the more heat is generated and maintained, and the longer lasting the effects. It's easier to lay plastic down in a narrow strip than a wide patch. so that is a major consideration. And therein lies the solitary expense in using the sun's energy to improve your soil: a strip or roll of clear plastic large enough to cover your area and overlap on all sides by at least a foot.

Five Steps to Healthier Soil

Prepare the Soil. Pull any weeds or old crops. Turn in any soil amendments and then rake the surface smooth. It's important to remove any stones or clumps that might raise the plastic and create air pockets that could cause uneven heating.

Water thoroughly. Leave a sprinkler on for several hours or overnight to soak the soil. This creates 100 percent humidity under the plastic, which acts with the heat to kill all those unwanted critters.

Dig a trench all around the bed or plot 6-8 inches deep.

Lay a clear plastic sheet, 3-6 mm thick, over the area, overlapping the trench on all sides. Fill in the trench, weighing down the plastic while pulling it as tight as possible.

Sit back, relax, and wait. Although cloudy weather will slow things down by cooling the soil under the tarp, a few weeks of sunshine will improve your soil dramatically, easily, and inexpensively. If you live in an area with cool or cloudy summers, or if you just don't want to wait all season, you can speed up the process by adding a second sheet of plastic. Using the hoops commonly used to elevate row covers or bird netting, raise the second sheet of plastic over the ground-level sheet. The airspace between acts as a temperature buffer zone during cloudy weather and the combination of the two sheets of plastic serves to raise the soil temperature an additional 6 degrees.


Susan

This is the hot knife set I got: http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000BRBZUG/104-1795951-6892704?SubscriptionId=0GKY5T9AP29X0E3X4XG2 -- it is eligible for free shipping, and at a much better price than I got locally. Here is a picture in the package: http://www.megahobby.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=XAC7378.

I do the same thing with scraps of roofing membrane, used on flat roofs. It's black and gets very hot.
Just so people know, sheet plastic is measured in mils, or thousandths of an inch. Six millimeters is almost a quarter of an inch, that would be awfully thick. Even the home deepo has it wrong on their site.

Okay.. I didn't notice.. I but I use the regular stuff that HD sells and it does work.. Maybe it takes longer to heat up?? I have no idea, but the concept of putting down the rolled plastic works!!
:)

Susan

happy-macomb: thanks. Let us know how it works!

Karen

Soulgardenlove~ that is indeed an easy and convenient concept. Thanks for sharing the tidbits with us. Hmm, another concept to consider and incorporate in the garden, LOL!. ;0)

Wow Susan, that would work!!! Oh my, I know where the rest of my budget is going for this month - PLASTIC! I really, really appreciate that reference. Woohoo!

~Sunny

Your welcome... I've just been around the block and I've wintersown so much in pots and not been able to plant it all out, that my mind started searching out ways to make it easier. :)

Susan

Susan,
Do you think it's too late to do it this fall? (The article says between June and September.) Can I leave the plastic down all winter? I mean, if I have a new, grass-free weed-free bed in December, I would want it to stay that way until March or April. Do you have pix? I've been bugging my DH for literally years to cover the hill that's too steep to mow since he hurt his back. My plan was newspaper and mulch and newspapers and compost and peat moss - I guess my plan was sort of a lasagna bed that would kill by its very bulk and presence. But it was going to be a lot of work for my aching DH. This way sounds much easier. Then I can WS a lot of something, and we'll have a mass planting. I'm also wondering about my zone. I bet you get more sunny days in GA than we do in MA. Still, it sounds fantastic! Thanks very much for the article, Susan.
xxxxx, Carrie

I also have a steep overgrown slope and would love more info as well. I planned to cover it in cardboard then layer straw/hay (left overs from autumn decorating), shredded leaves and grass clippings we saved over the summer. The plastic sounds much easier although the soil wouldn't have the benefit of the organic stuff mixed in. I'm all ears!

Joanne