Large canopy tree

Hello All! This is my first post, although I've been reading the forum for a couple of weeks. I live and garden in southern Illinois, and have decided to plant a tree on the slope of a hill just to the south of my house. There are no trees there right now, and I've been developing a garden spot using a lot of native plants and drought resistant perennials, but now realize that I want a large canopy type deciduous tree to shield the house from the summer sun, but not keep out the winter sun. I like the form of trees that have sturdy single trunks and then branch out higher up to form a canopy, umbrella shape. That way I can still garden under the tree but it will shade the south side of my house. I imagine the tree should be able to grown to 60 or 70 fee. There are a number of silver maples in my neighborhood, and they have the form I like, but they have no fall foiliage interest and I understand they do not do well in wind. Because the hill is south, and I am on the crest, I get the southwest wind storms (including the possibility of tornados!) heading straight for the house. So it would be best if the tree could withstand occasional strong wind. I look forward to your suggestions!

Have you considered a northern variety of pecan? They make excellent shade trees. Northern red oak is another good choice. A Zelkova might have the shape you desire, however I prefer native trees instead.

I'd rule out Silver Maple. Its a soft Maple with weak wood. We have 2 large ones here and they fell apart real nice after an ice storm here in '02. A neighbor lost power for a week when a limb from his Silver Maple fell on the power line going into his house. Here, it was just a big mess, well, and a damaged fence, and a broken sideview mirror on my car.True, any tree can succumb to the weight of ice, but Silver Maples do readily. I'd say the only one that falls apart even worse is Bradford Pear.

My vote would be for American Sycamore or Bur Oak.

Will

Elms are a nice shaped tree, but I would think the Oak or Sycamore suggestions are better.

Bill

If you want a maple, sugar maple would be your best bet. They are very strong wooded but are a little slow growing. Excellent fall color.

I really love my buartnut (hybrid between butternut and Japanese walnut) tree. Large tropical looking leaves on a single trunk tree that develops very nice horizontal branching. This tree is disease resistant to a blight that is killing our native butternuts. Also the male flowers are very long catkin like characters that are of interest and of course the tree also has tasty nuts.

You might consider Amur Corktree. This tree is not a native and you should only consider the male cultivars. My tree has wonderful horizontal branching, compound leaves like the buartnut but with a wonderful yellow fall colour.

Thank you for all your suggestions and responses! I will look into each one. I do like to stay with native trees, but also want something fairly fast growing, or at least not slow.

You can do a lot with proper care to encourage your tree to grow quickly. Proper soil prep, correct planting, weed/turf control in the root zone, mulching, and watering will work wonders. It's much better to do that with a good tree than planting something weedy and doing nothing to encourage it -- the growth results will be about the same, except the weedy thing would be gone in a couple of decades.

Guy S.

Yes, thanks Guy S. I do want to plant a substantial tree. Since the site is a slope, is it better to build up the earth with a small retaining wall to make the site level, or will trees naturally right themselves when they grow on an incline? I am somewhat new to gardening (6 years) after living in NYC for 30 years! I have learned a lot, some by reading but much by planting in a haphazard fashion the first couple of years. Now I am willing to make educated mistakes, but I certainly don't want any with this major a decision!

Darby

If you plant a relatively small tree (say, ten feet tall or so) you shouldn't need to adjust the slope for it except to make a small, temporary levee on the downhill side around the rootball. Then baby it like your long-lost sweetheart and watch it take off.

Whereabouts in M'boro do you live? Is it on127 or 13 or another highway I might have travelled when I come that way? Bob and Sandy Catt are old friends down there whom I haven't seen in years -- if you know them please say hello for me!

Guy S.

Great. I will, for this one time, get some expert help digging up the soil and amending it correctly for the tree. I think the hill I live on is manmade since it is filled with debris, mostly old bricks, but who knows what else is down deep. Murphysboro was ravaged by an enormous tornado in 1925 and had to bury the demolished buildings and build (and plant) anew. I think most of the silver maples in my neighborhood are from that time.

Guy, I live in town, the sleepy little town, not on any of the two highways that lead here, 127 and 13. This part of Illinois is often a surprise to those who think of the flat plains in the center of the state. We got hills! Lots of them, and an absolutely gorgeous Shawnee National Forest. I love it here! I do not know your friends, sorry.

This message was edited Aug 16, 2006 6:54 AM

I'm a little late getting to the party, but couldn't resist adding my .02 in support of Northern Red Oak. I spent the earlier part of this week up in Bayfield, WI, and ran across this beauty. Lake Superior is in the background. They had a severe wind storm pass through the area about a month ago that did fairly extensive damage to a number of trees. The NRO didn't seem to suffer any significant damage.

White & Bur usually get the nod for hardy Oaks with most picturesque form, but I'd say this one is right there with them. Plus it has the advantage of being a faster grower than either and has better fall color than Bur Oak.

Maack:

Not sure about your area, but Red Oaks are dropping like flies around here. Oak wilt I guess. Here is a pic of the neighbor's tree that suddenly toppled into my yard. The large trunk you see still standing is another red oak that is now 90% dead. I'd go for something in the White Oak group, or Kentucky Coffeetree, Aesculus turbinata or A. chinensis, or Magnolia acuminata!

Wow! Thanks for this input. I had been seriously considering the Northern Red Oak. Maackia, your photo shows a beauty, but I certainly don't want a tree like that falling on my little house. I will look into these new suggestions from Kevin, but I should make up my mind soon so I'm ready for fall planting! Thanks again to all.

Kevin, I think its the deer getting revenge on you for locking them out. Those suburban Chicago deer are way more sophisticated in their ways than those found in the northwoods, and have most likely been listening to the protest song by Five Man Electical Band:

"To put up a fence to keep me out,
But to keep Mother Nature in?
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face,
'Man, you're some kind of sinner."

You might could consider the "Timburr" hybrid chestnut tree that Oikos sells. It's supposed to have the form of the American chestnut but also be blight resistant. I think Equilibrium is growing one.

Bob:

It more likely was that jealous guy who would rather knock over one of his precious oaks than see Kneevin successfully grow such a luscious collection of the 4, 5, and 6 season voluptuous wonders that are all things Viburnum.

And...he may have written those lyrics for FMEB:

"Guy, guy, everywhere a guy
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the Guy?"

Past the thread derailment...

darbyo:

Welcome aboard! You aren't but a throne's stow from SIU-Carbondate, eh? They should have some good (and free) literature on what does what especially well around you. And with the plethora of forests, state parks, and recreational areas in your neighborhood, you shouldn't have trouble taking a look around at great individual specimens to see what will hold up in the long run against the elements (droughts, floods, tornados, ice storms, heavy wet snows, Guy...).

If you are looking for longevity, interest, and growth rate.....I'd lean toward one of the many native oaks for your area (you can probably find 15 or 20 native; 4-5 perfectly suited for your conditions). Pick one that nobody else plants! Look and see, but I'd bet Quercus lyrata, Quercus michauxii, and even Quercus bicolor are well under-represented in Murphysboro landscapes. Those are also all members of the white oak group's team, so the dreaded oak wilt should be less concern.

Take the time to observe what other collections might be nearby, too, so that your future plant palette can be richer, like...

Anna, IL is just down the road, and home to a couple of the finest nursery people I've ever met: Bon and Ferry Hartline. Great plantsman and partial to hollies, Bon selected and named quite a few plants whose names and images are bandied about this and other forums. Somebody can correct me, but I think Ginkgo biloba 'Chase Manhattan' was his baby. I'm certain he introduced a number of Ilex, but I'd have to fish out the old records to resurrect what they are (Ilex opaca 'Southern Illinois University' comes to mind as one). The Great Rivers chapter of the Holly Society of America was founded by stalwart citizens such as Ferry and him, and their legacy lives on in their plants and individuals inspired to follow in their immense and impressive imprints.

Boy, some Kentucky hayseeds can't count or read a calendar! For viburnums, there's (1) autumn, when a few viburnums have nice fruit; (2) winter, when all the tender ones die; (3) spring, when they flower, and (4) summer droughts, when the rest of them die. That's four seasons, not six!!!

And I would never wish ill upon Kneevin -- I just hope to help him achieve a higher cosmic plane where wimpy little weeds like viburnums are relegated to the back 40 behind the superior oaks. And if I could duplicate his deer solution here I definitely would do it. It's the envy of gardeners everywhere.

Darby, all this stuff is said in good fun, in case you were wondering! I might admit, but not publicly, that John (Viburnum Vacuum from Kentucky) actually is a friend whom I admire. (On second thought, no, I wouldn't!)

I think you have several good suggestions here already. If you can find something like Quercus michauxii or Quercus lyrata at a nursery down there, either would make a magnificent and colorful tree once it adjusts to the hillside site. So would the others mentioned, and many more. See what you can find available locally and come back to us with a shopping list to critique.

Guy S.

I will second that on the Quercus michauxii, mine is doing very well. It has a fast growth rate, mine is only three years old and it is already about 8ft tall. Despite it common name "Swamp Chestnut Oak", it does not have to be in swampy soil. Mine has done wonderfully through the drought we have had this year. My only complaint is that bugs like to roll themselves up in the big fuzzy leaves. It hasn't affected the health of the tree though.

Guys (all of you), thanks so much for a lively and oh so knowledgable conversation. Your posts are all a delight. I will start in this week visiting the local nurseries to see what they carry, but I am curious about Bon and Ferry Hartline in Anna....do they have a nursery and is it the Anna Nursery? I've passed it many times but have never stopped in. I am very new to gardening and just beginning to appreciate how important it is to pay attention to specifics. In my life I have fallen in love with trees.....a larch in the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, gingkos all over the city, a weeping beech in the garden of Museum of Modern Art, but I never thought I would have the opportunity to plant trees I could love. The other night I was at the Missouri Botanic Garden to see the glass art of Dale Chihuly, but I only had eyes for the trees! I'll return here with a list of objects of my desire after I research what is available locally.

Darby

Go get 'em, Darby!

Bon and Ferry's business was Hartline Nursery (illustrated by a heart, followed by a line), but since they reached what I'd call grandparent-ly age, I don't know that they still actively run the nursery. I'd bet the folks at Anna Nursery knew them, though, and whether there are other opportunities in the area.

Your experiences of trees (punctuated by place and perspective) parallel many of us. Keep those, enrich them, and make some of your own.

I find it fascinating that material artists and sculptors are evermore seeking out landscapes to display their works; it wasn't always so. Chihuly has some incredible pieces, and he's not afraid to borrow from nature.

Viburnum Valley, have you seen the work of Andy Goldsworthy? He is worth a google if you haven't, and if you have you've seen the stunning work he does with nature. Because most of his work is transitory (like much of nature) the best way to see it is through the many books on his art. Most libraries will have them.

Yes, I've seen and read of Goldsworthy (many times he's made weaves of branches, etc.). I have had the pleasure of experiencing one of his works in NY's Hudson Valley, at Storm King, where he created a serpentine dry stone fence. http://www.stormking.org/AndyGoldsworthy.html

Quite permanent, fortunately, for all.

Oh! You've seen his best. This fence is in the film Rivers and Tides and looks glorious. I teach art at a community college and at least once a year I show this film and it always has a mesmerizing effect on some students. Then I give them a group project where they can only use natural materials found on campus, or brought in by them, and they construct it outside. They can't believe they are having such fun in college, but boy do they learn about the properties of the materials and how to perservere.

I've seen that film a couple times; never weary of it. The string of leaves; the stacks of rocks; the web of sticks; something with snow/ice? Can't remember all of them...

Thanks for being an inspiration to future generations.