Container Advice Wanted

I just bought 3 pots – 11 inches in diameter and 14 inches high – the size being to keep in the scale with my garden and hopefully be big enough to keep my Brugs happy. I’m going to try my hand at over wintering them in my frost free garage with practically no light (a problem?).

First, any suggestions or tips?

Secondly and the reason I made this post - the pots “as is” will automatically drain to a depth where 2 inches of water is left in the bottom. My options are to fill the bottom 2 inches of each pot with river stones which might add some desirable stability OR drill three drain holes in the absolute bottom to be more certain no roots will ever just be soaking in water. Which might you do?

Thanks, in advance.

Although I don't have a lot of Brug experience, I think an 11 inch pot is too small for a blooming sized Brug. A pot of 25 inch diameter is more suitable. I think you can keep a Brug alive in a small pot, but blooming is much more difficult. Think small tree size.

As to the wintering, assuming your garage is truly frost-free, I think it will work, if the pot size is big enough, and you give a small amount of water every month. When I tried to winter a small plant, it died, but my big ones do OK in a similar mode.

Susan in Minneapolis

Hello dwdruley.

Like Susan, I don't have a lot of Brug experience. This is my first year and I have about a dozen out in my garden. Your pots seem a bit on the small side, although several of mine are in pots that size and seem to be doing very well. It can be more of a challenge to keep them watered, however.

I personally would be more concerned about the potential for your Brugs to sit in water, even two inches. Either option you have mentioned seems like a good fix to me.

As for the wintering, I successfully got three of four large Brugs through the winter in my basement with very little light. You just have to remember to water them a bit each week/month so they don't die.

There are many more Brug experts out there who can give better advice than I. Hopefully some of them will share their thoughts on your questions.

Erick

P.S. Susan, how exciting that there is another Brug fan in the Twin Cities! I have never ever seen a blooming Brugmansia here and was thinking that I might be one of the first. Hope your gardens are doing well.

Erick,

I am in a small indoor garden group, and several members from that group got me started on Brugs. One day a few years ago in the summer, I was walking down my street in Minneapolis, and there was a neighbor a few doors down who had two stunning Brugs in pots blooming on his front steps. I am thinking that before I knew what they were, that they wouldn't have registered with me; kind of like buying a new car, and then seeing that lots of people have that car also.

I am hoping to find a new home for an extra Brug, a versicolor, that even has buds. Are you interested in it? No charge, but you would have to pick it up.

Susan

ErickMN,

You said

.
Does this mean that my 11 inchers have at least some chance to bloom and possibly last a couple years or more? (with TLC, of course) Are yours in these smaller pots two years old or older?

If I have any good chance for this I want to stay that small if at all possible for a couple of important practical reasons.

Dave

Susan,

You make an interesting point about noticing Brugmansias. As recently as last year, I probably wouldn't have noticed them if I saw them, as I wasn't aware they even existed!
I will send you a Dmail about your kind offer on the B. versicolor.

Dave,

I see conflicting advice on pot sizes all the time. Several of mine are in 10" - 11" pots and they are growing beautifully. I expect to see buds soon. I get the impression that the only real problem with small pots is that it's more of a challenge to keep them watered. I've never seen anyone say that small pot size alone would keep a Brug from blooming. HOWEVER, that said, I am not overly experienced with Brugs and could be dead wrong. Some of the real experts on here should weigh in with their views soon, I hope!

Erick

Dave,

By the way, the Brugs I have in the smaller pots are cuttings, and only one year old. The will certainly need bigger pots in the future.

Erick

Flowers will depend on wether they are cuttings [ if they are and are from after the "Y" they will probaly bloom . [I see them in 2 and 5 gallon pots at nurseries with flowers all the time - single and double whites ]
I would drill hole [s] in the pot from inside .
It sounds like the pots have a saucer/tray on bottom . If you drill from inside , you can alway stick a cork in hole if you buy bigger pots and reuse pot for something else . [ watch for corks and save them ]

Thanks, tonyjr,

All will be “Y” cuts and I think I will feel better/safer drilling the holes.

These 3 are all intended for my deck – one reason I went small on the pots. The $64 question is after their first year what could I expect the summer after I over wintered them and kept them in those same small pots. I have a lot more time for the TLC to give them than I have space. Given this do you see any chance for them to be semi decent Brugs for two years or more in 11 inch pots?

If not, there’s no point in my over wintering them. Did I make that clear enough for you to follow?

Thanks,
Dave

I would think if you water as much as they need it and you fertilize a whole lot, you can maintain them for a good while in small pots. I have had them in 1 gallon bloom though they do look terrible but I do not take great care of them either.

When mine get to a 25 gallon pot, I root prune every spring and put in new dirt. They seem then to be happy. If I did not do that, I find they are too root bound and I have a hard time keeping them watered and fertilized. New dirt and they take off with lush new green growth.

So I woud think come spring you will need to cut your brug back some (though do it above the Y so you get flowers fast) and then root prune some and put it back in the same pot with new dirt. I would also keep it trained to one trunk for a small pot won't support a big bush easily. If you could get a brug that Ys at 3 ft you would do better I would think in a small pot. Mini standards!

So try it!! You never know!!!! There also were some small brugs that would be ideal for patio brugs. I think Susie had one that was adorable, Ever something. Anyone remember the name?

Good luck and let us know how you do!

Thanks Kell,

With that authoritative word and encouragement, I’ll plow ahead.

It would be neat if someone posts some info on those “patio brugs”.

Dave

Well I am no authority but I am full of encouragement. You never know what will work till you try it. It might make you nuts to water all the time but if you keep up with that and fertilizing, you can keep it healthy I bet for a long while.

I think maybe it was Eventide, http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53700/index.html

I know it says they grow 10 ft plus but I have the feeling they are really shorter.

One of my greatest loves of my life is to go out on my back deck early each morning to enjoy the action (and photo ops) my backyard wildlife habitat gives me. Taking a jug of water with me will be a piece of cake.

Regarding your authority, since anyone into brugs knows better, I find your modesty appealing.

Thanks for the link.

Thought I’d post a progress pic of my experimental trial brug starting it’s entire life in an 11 inch pot. Watcha think? Looks happier than anything I have in the ground.

It looks just great. I hope you succeed. My problem is I always forget a watering or 2 and they start looking raggedy. A big pot lets me skip more without dire consequences.

Is that a honeysuckle vine on your porch? I have been looking at some lately, they sure have some pretty new ones.

Yes, The honeysuckle vine just to the right of the pot is Gold Flame and around the corner is a Dropmore Scarlet - both great Hummingbird attractors. They’re both in a lull between blooms. They attract hummers to feeders I have elsewhere on my back 20 X 20 foot deck. My “test” brug is a little bushy but that’s the look I prefer.

Well your bushy brug looks great! LOL. You will have to keep up feeding too because it will become rootbound fast.

I have a lot of abutilons here just for the hummers. Well that is a lie, I have them for me and the extra bonus is hummers love them. I get such a kick being in my courtyard with a bunch of hummers humming all over!

If I had room I would try some of those honeysuckle vines. Though I remember as a child my father was always fighting honeysuckle on our property. He so hated it.

You said

My game plan is 6 days of enough water daily and feeding (of one tablespoon each per gal of MG and Epsom Salt ) on the 7th day.

I also put a tablespoon of Osmocote on top after potting which I will renew in 3-4 months?

Thoughts?

Hi Dave. Since you are watering everyday, you are really flushing out that pot. I would add fertilizer at maybe half strength or less with every watering. You will need one with minors too. You can play with the strength as you see how your plant reacts. I would add the Osmocote every month. I find it does not last as long as they say it does. I think too when it is hot, it breaks down even faster. I switch fertilizers around too so if one zigs the other may zag and therefore supply the plant with a more rounded diet.

I hope I have not steered you wrong! Some feel Epsom salt builds up in the soil if you use too much. I doubt that is a concern with all your watering but I am not sure I would dose with it every week.

That’s exactly the type of valued expert insight I was hoping for to give this goof ball experiment a fighting chance. Why am I even trying it? It’s in my nature to plow virgin ground wherever I see it and believe me I’ve hit more than my share of rocks.

Thanks. With your help maybe I’ll get lucky this time.

Well I do not know how expert it is, but I gave it my best shot. LOL.

If we had conquered the art of bonsai, we would know how to do it! LOL. In bonsai though they do not fertilize to get growth but to just maintain. They do not want the fast growth. When I did lots of bonsai I learned how plants love to have their roots trimmed and not to be afraid of doing it. I have been able to keep many plants in pots for years happily. I should have gone to more classes and learned more principles. What little I did pick up has really helped me in my gardening endeavors.

I don't mean to step in here but didn't want to make a separate topic. How many sink their pots? Next year I will be doing that unless I can find another way to keep them upright. It's been windy today and I must have stood those pots up at least six times! Any suggestions?

Funny you ask that, I took some pics yesterday down at the plots. I bury all my brugs in pots there so I can dig them out fast and easy when I do not want them anymore. The pot holds the main root ball. I also like how easy it is to water them, I fill to the top of the pot.

At home I bury the pots so you can't see.

I used to make holes on the side of the pots but I do not even bother doing that anymore. Here is one my husband dug out yesterday. It was about 10 ft tall and it took him about 5 minutes to get it out. He just pushed the shovel down the sides of the pot and cut off the protuding roots and out it pops.

Here is another big old tree he popped right out.

I also will pop them out to save them if they are really special brugs and I want to take them home with me. I then just repot them when I get home. They do fine even with all the roots cut off. I am amazed they do not even go into shock if I keep them in a cool, shady place. One year, I didn't even repot them, I left them just like that in my hoophouse over winter and they did fine.

I know people in the colder areas do this also to grow them big outside in the summer and then bring them in for the winter.

If you have hard and rocky soil like we had in Tennessee you can stake your pots to the ground with rebarr. We got real tired of walking thru our native tree nursery and having to upright hundreds of trees several times a week. Staking the pots was a life saver.

Kell and Vee8ch thank you! That is what I'll be doing. I would also imagine the pots would not dry out so quickly. I did put one in front and buried all but about three inches of the rim. Today it was the only one that didn't tip over. This is such a great place for advice, thanks!

americanwoman,

Truer words were never spoke.

Dave

Hey Dave,
Thanks for asking all these questions, things I have wanted to know also. Kell has so much knowledge and shares it freely. Your brug looks very healthy. congratulations. Mine have been eaten by earwigs but are hanging in there.
Marie

Just wanted you to know that TLC included AC during this heat wave.

Dave is that a spoiled brug or what?

Right you are but I learned that 48 hours of AC tho preventing wilting and curling can cost a few lower leaves (due to the sudden temp difference, I guess). I may wind up with a "tree" after all.

Live and learn…but that’s the fun of it.

I have a few brugs in pots (10 & 15 gal.), but they have not bloomed. Most of them have y'd, but no blooms. Any suggestions appreciated. The ones planted directly into the ground, bloom freely.

Thanks,
Chris

LOL Dave! I think it is great you look after your brug so well. I once brought my Maya inside and it dropped every leaf it had, most traumatic for me! I thought I was going to have a breakdown. It recovered just great once back outside.

Yours looks happy, Dave and Marie yours looks good too except for its bite marks. Don't you just hate hungry bugs.

Kell,

These are excepts from your posts:

Could you give me a widely available (e.g. Home Depot or Lowe’s) specific brand or two that I should be alternating with the MG for a more rounded diet including the “minors” you mentioned?

I’m 90% pleased but want to try for 95% to 100% (don’t all Bruggers?).

Finally, a down the road question or two – I plan to cut it back to 20 inches measured from the bottom of the pot in early November for over wintering in my frost free garage. That happens to preserve a great looking “Y” on one of the four main stems. Is that height cut ok? Also, should I pick a main stem or two to cut off completely to help my chances in ’07? I WILL be doing plenty of root trimming when I re pot it next Spring.

Epsom salt hasn’t been needed as the green color looks great.

Sorry for the rambling. Take your time. Pics to come – hopefully a full October flush. I may not respond to any post ‘til Monday ‘cause I’m a complete Notre Dame and Chicago Bear's football nut !!

Dave

Oh Dave I am on my way out to pick tomatoes and am on a time crunch for tonight is date night and we leave for San Francisco early. So I must scoot. But funny you bring this thread up.....I was going to look for you. Since I last talked to you I have been trying a small pot too just to see how it does.

Here is a 2 year old seedling that has never been repotted. I brought it home when I retired to give to someone. It is a seedling from a Susie French seed and gets quite dark. Since speaking to you I moved it behind my front gate so I would see it many times a day to make sure I would water it a lot. It worked. I have been fertilizing it a lot too. As you can see, it is doing great.

The flowers are past, but I left them on so you could see how it has flowered!

My gate is about 6 feet tall so you can see how big it is.

I will answer your questions when I get home from dinner. I can't wait to see yours bloom.

Here is the 5 gallon pot it is in.

I thought I’d make this Sunday PM post (with additional details) following my long and draining football weekend. The Notre Dame game Saturday was like you experienced Bruggers (which I am not) suddenly discovering a severe and widespread case of Stangelbrand. The Chicago Bear’s salvaged the weekend enough for me to make this post. I have the Indianapolis Colts game on DVR to watch later. Am I a football “nut” or what?

In order for Kell to better zero in on my situation I’m including a picture stack. The first of the three pics below is the reason I’m only 90% satisfied with my container brug. This was taken very early this morning. Tomorrow it will be pink (not orange which is being exaggerated by the dim morning light) but by now should have already more fully bloomed as is shown in my 2nd pic taken of my “showpiece” brug planted in the ground in my front yard. Both brugs gave me a bloom or two earlier (Aug 3 and Aug 31) and both previous times my container brug had difficulty giving birth.

The bottom pic is to show that I agree with Kell’s wisdom – if it’s out of sight, it’s out of mind. This is the view I have sitting in the kitchen for my early morning wake up coffee and again later for breakfast. One could say that I have this brug under scrutiny comparable to an intensive care unit.

Those of you in the know may have recognized these brugs as Day Dreams. What’s a part timer like me doing with a prize double pink like this which I frankly don’t deserve? The answer is that I am just one of the many anonymous folks who was the beneficiary of Brugie’s warm generosity. She sent me an emergency supply of cuttings in late ’04 after I systematically killed all the cuttings that Ronna had previously sent me To my surprise, Brugie’s 10 cutting package included one cutting of Day Dreams that she hacked off the mother plant that she certainly hadn’t planned to. Plus a cutting of Monika which I haven’t had much luck with. I rewarded Ronna with both double pink cuttings last September. Thanks Brugie, if you’re reading this. DD is the single brug that’s kept me brugging albeit on a small scale.

Also, to satisfy any curiosity about how such an obviously top heavy 11 inch pot keeps from falling over - the answer is I have it screwed to the deck. The corn cob in the background is a miscellaneous piece of my backyard wildlife habitat to which my brugs are a notable exception.

A belated question: Is proper daily watering when one later sees water coming out the drain holes? I’m used to watering only until my moisture meter is happy which works great on all my indoor potting. I may simply be under watering/feeding… (ugh, the life of a rookie !)

Kell, I thought this additional post might be of help and/or interest. Thanks, in advance, for any further advice.

Dave

Dave, you're brilliant!! You screwed your pots to the deck. Wow! If I had a deck, I'd have to copy your idea, but, unfortunately, my patio is the pebbly cement type stuff.

How are the Bears doing this year, anyway? I lived in Chicago for a bit, and always, always watched the games. Now, I just do not have the time, and no longer live in Chicago. The Colts are closer to me now. Sorry about Notre Dame!

It’s always great to hear from a fellow Hoosier. I was born in Indianapolis - a mere 68 years ago. The Bear’s look greater than anyone expected and won today to go 2 and 0. The reverse happened to the Irish who were ranked #2 but will likely fall to #10 to #15 after that “Stangelbrand” disaster. I just starting watching the delayed Colts on my DVR – they’re favored by 13 but will probably win by 20 or more. One of my fondest memories of Indy was caddying the 500 Speedway golf course and standing on the overpass and watching the Novi’s try to hit 140 mph. Another way I can realize how old I am.

Now back to my DVR ‘til 8 PM or so. Thanks for the post.

Dave