Miracle Grow add - Chapter II: The Experiment

The potting soil used in this experiment is Garden Magic Potting Soil. According to it's label..."Garden Magic Potting Soil is blended to be used for indoor and outdoor planting, in containers and beds. Developed for the home gardener. Features a dark blend of reed sedge peat and other materials. Ready to use out of the bag." The ingredients listed are Reed Sedge Peat 80%, Sand, Perlite. It says on the front of the bag that it contains peat moss, this is written right under the words "Potting Soil" and I think is only written there to point out that it's peat based and not dirt based.

This stuff looks great out of the bag. It looks like the ideal soil you'd want in your garden. On further inspection you'll see that it has a LOT of sand in it. Then you put it in a pot and water it, and wait for it to drain. And wait...and wait...and wait.

We added 8 cups of perlite to a 20 lb bag of this stuff and somehow the drainage was actually worse. Go figure. Here's a pic. This was take approx. 5 minutes after watering this 4" pot.

All the perlite just separates from the soil. Since adding the perlite did somehow make the drainage worse I decided to add the other 20 lb bag of this soil I had. So, we ended up with 40 lbs of this soil w/ an extra 8 cups of perlite added to it. It won't drain. It turns to mud. The particles are too fine.

Since I couldn't add any peat to it...because it's being tested against peat!...I opted to put stones/pebbles in the bottom of all the pots that were being planted w/ the PS. This seemed to help. I didn't use stones/pebbles with any of the other mediums. I also used the lone terra cotta pot that I only have one of for planting w/ PS, since it has larger drainage holes.

Here's a pic of the PS straight from the bag.

Here's all 40 lbs of the PS w/ the extra perlite in it.

For the Org tests I'm using an Alfalfa Tea and Bunny Poo (Rabbit Manure).

The Poo was mixed in w/ the soil when they were planted. I used a mix I found on a site I can't even remember when doing a Google search on the subject. The poo I used was fresh and not composted. But it was allowed time to "air out" some in the weather in a container w/ drainage holes. While all of this happened it was not under my control, the farmer took care of all of this before I got it. The poo also has shredded newspaper bedding and fresh alfalfa hay bits mixed in w/ it. The recipe I used was 3 parts soil and 1 part poo.

My Alfalfa Tea is still brewing. It should only be a few days till it's done. I've decided to punch it up a bit w/ a recipe I found here on DG.
32 gallon trash can
10 cups alfalfa pellets
1 cup epsom salts
1 cup fish emulsion
(Look under garden terms for alfalfa tea for the directions.) I'm just hoping my neighbor folks don't end up hating me and the neighbor cats don't end up loving me! If anyone asks where the smell is coming from I'm planning on playing stupid.

Here's a pic of one of the $0.50 Impatiens I got from Wal-Mart.

I think that pretty much covers most things for now that need any explanation....other than if anyone out there is willing to help explain to me how to use this SuperThrive stuff. I read the directions a while ago and found them confusing. I'll have to look over them again. I remember thinking that a great way for a company to cover their butt and not have to honor a gurantee or warrantee is to make the directions of use confusing, then just tell the customer they used it wrong...no refund. Sorry to all the ST lovers out there.

If I have time later tonight I have individual pics of each plant and etc. that I plan on posting in my DG Diary. I will post a link when I have them up.

In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone would like to take a guess at which plant/soil mix/fert (however you'd like to say it) will do the best? I'd love to hear some responses on that! =^)

Heather

This is test plant #11 - SuperThrive + Poo + Base, taken today 6/18

You are very diligent. I'm betting on poo plus base, if only because it would give me a reason to get rid of the rabbit's pile of gunk.

I did not like the MG ready to use I got this year, for the same reasons of poor drainage that you describe. I ended up mixing it about 1 to 3 with nursery potting mix [soiless] for the larger part. The plants in that mix are much happier than the ones in just MG or the ones in MG plus perlite.

I am working on my indoor garden containers, but the poo part I can not for the life of me even consider adding, have enough trouble with the animal house I already have!!

New and updated pictures of newly "found" obsession with C&S, garden gone wild and deck. Tomaters have grown to nearly 5.5"...is that normal??

http://beckysobsession.spaces.msn.com/PersonalSpace.aspx

Ok, the Diary is in the works. http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/m/heathrjoy/

It's taking a lot of time to set up...make a collage of pics, type everything up, etc. I'll get it tho. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Steve, how's it going? Is everything ok there? I'm wondering about you...please let us know how you're doing when you have a chance.

Loretta, what were you testing and where are you w/ the results???

Becky, I'll check out that link when I have a minute...which isn't now...I'm already running late from trying to set up the Diary.

Sissy, are you trying any poo soon?

Hugs all,
Heather

Thanks Heather, thats so nice of you to ask! Things are about the same here, but everything hopefully should be able to be worked through in time. What happened, is(here goes), my sister has major depression and tried to commit suicide. And what makes it worse is her husband who she's newly married to isn't very bright and doesn't have much of a clue about it. Also she and her husband are blaming it completly on us, cause they say we hate him(husband). We don't hate him though and we've tried to support the union as best as possible. We have though, been advised by friends who've been through a similar situation, to just sit back and let them drive their own car as it were because they are their own family now. So that will be tough.

On a better note, I still want to do the tests, but it won't be till late next week.
I'm glad you've started yours up and I think mine should still show good result even though they're planted later.
If you don't mind, would take over the thread for a while? I would really appreciate it, if it's not too much. I just haven't been keeping up.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve, not a problem w/ the thread or anything else for that matter. You just take care of what you need to and remember that we're here for support anytime you need a shoulder or an ear to listen.

I'm very sorry to hear the news about your sister and I hope things are going well and continue to get even better. After something like this happens I know things can look and feel very hopeless...my sister attempted suicide when she was in high school. But things can, do and will change. She and her hubby may be off on their own path right now, but she will realize she needs your support and you'll hear from her. It's a matter of time and I pray it goes quickly and that she's safe in the meantime.

Thank so much Heather, that just what we're hoping. It's so nice to hear something positive :)
There has though been a slightly new turn to things and what we've noticed is that my BIL seems to be a bit of a control freak. My mother was talking about it with a woman she knows who used to be a social worker and she suspects that cause of his(my BIL) seeming need to be in control(our personal observations) that he may be trying to control my sister and what has happened is the result. And that could fall under emotional abuse. We can try to support and encourage once she talks to us again but if abuse is the case it's really up to her weather she stay's in the relationship or not.
Also, I used to be very close with my sister, untill my BIL came along when she dropped me like a brick. We haven't had much of a relationship since, so that makes it even more hard.
Again, thanks for listening :) I can't really talk about it with any of my offline friends here as we've been advised it should be kept pirvate, to prevent my sister from feeling worse and of course gossip. So it's great that I can talk about it with you guys here online!

Thanks,
Steve

I'm glad if we can help. Things can look very bad and turn out quite well in the end. My sis went from attempting suicide in high school to being pregnant in high school about a year a half later. She married the father and it was hellacious. What she did and went through sounds a lot like what your sis is going through. It took about 18 months of marriage and she left him. Unfortunaltey, her choices didn't get better very quickly. She went from bad to worse and ended up w/ a guy who beat her and was a drug addict...BUT...she learned the lesson there too and moved on. Now she's with a very wonderful man who loves and cares for her and her children. She graduated from nursing school last Dec. I'm so proud of her, not for just being a college grad, but for what she's gone through to get there.

I'm not trying to brag up my sis. My point is that your sis will learn the lesson too. We all do, in our own time and our own way. It just really sucks to be the family member who cares that has to sit by and watch...and bite your tongue. With my sis I'm talking about a 20 yr progression, not 2 yrs. But it does happen. Celebrate the little things, if you have to do it all by yourself!!

If you and your sis were close then she will miss that relationship too, and I'm sure she misses it now. Don't be surprised if you're the first one she reaches out to when she is ready for help. If you were close, then she trusts you, and that means so much in this world...she won't ever forget that.

All of you are in my prayers daily,
Heather

Steve,
What Heather said. You'll be added to my prayer list, too. And, regarding the ties with your sister. Even if you guys aren't on speaking terms, write short little letters and mail them to her where she can safely receive them. She may not respond, but at least she'll know that there is still a door open to her.

Pray for your sister and for her husband, too. God works on both sides of the street.

And, your probably already know that suicide attempts are acts of fleeing from some other root issue. Try to help her get in touch with the root issue, and resolve the problem there.

Steve: I can only add my good wishes to those of others, here. I hope it does not sound silly, but this may be the sort of life trial that gardening is made for: there is nothing so soothing as garden work, I think, and it often gives us time to slow down and let answers come to us when we are emotionally distressed.

Heather: On a much less dramatic note, I am eager to attack the rabbit pile. However, it has been raining endlessly for days. I am house trapped and everything outside is soaked [so is my basement, actually]. I am thinking I will put an old screen across a couple of tree stumps and spread the gunk out on it, to let it air out a bit and allow the pee to drain off. Really, I have to do something with the pile before it reaches the bottom of her cage!
Sissy

Sounds like a good plan to me Sissy. That ought to clean it up for you a lot quicker than putting it in a container w/ drainage holes. If you do have a break in the rain you may want to set it up now. I think all the rain would clean it up faster. I hope your basement survives w/ little damage. We had to put in a french drain last year on one side of the house and it's made a huge difference...now we get no water in the basement. We used to get a couple inches. I'll be thinking of you, I know how awful that can be!


Steve, how are you and your family doing? I don't want to pester you, I'm just wondering. Take care. Hugs.

Steve,
How about an update on your sister and her husband...

Heather hows your testing doing???...My are doing their thing and growing like weeds...I did all of mine with added MP and a few I Messengered...The pots in the cheap soil is doing about the same as the ones I potted in MG...All have their depends on too...Less wasted water that way...

The test plants are all doing great. It's been raining cats & dogs here for the last 2 weeks so it's been a bit tough w/ the ferts getting washed away. I'll see if I can get some pics soon. Those in the potting soil here don't seem to be doing as well.

Steve, if you're lurking, I'm hoping for an update as well.

Hugs all,
Heather

Have you tried using any with osmocote??

Yep! =^)

I have Osmocote being tested in Potting Soil and also in my Base. In my Base I'm calling it my MG mix, because basically that's what's in MG for a fert.

So far it looks as though the SuperBloom is doing the best, even in the Potting Soil. Then comes the Base mixes I did, they are all about even. Then MG. After that it gets hard to tell, except that the other Potting Soil ones aren't looking too great. Will try to get some pics today and post them in my DG Diary. Will also see if DH has the time to help me measure them, but if not I'll see if I can use something for comparison in the pics.

On a side note...I did read somewhere (maybe even here) that organic ferts take a bit longer to kick in than synthetic ferts do. All the recent rain may be a big factor also w/ the organic ferts. I'm going to do some question asking in the Organic Gardening Forum and see what they think...maybe I should reapply.


Oh, by the way...I just had a Master Gardener tell me that she applies Osmocote (or other time release ferts) every two weeks through the growing season!! How about that!? I'm not going to do that w/ the test plants because I didn't intend to from the beginning, but I'm going to try it w/ some other things, especially Brugs. I keep finding all kinds of new info about all kinds of ferts that I already have on hand thanks to this test. Alfalfa Pellets can be used as a fert on their own, just mix them into the soil or top/side dress w/ them...they are very high in Nitrogen...most folks say they just throw in/on a handful when raking back mulch in spring or whenever they are potting something up. I have a huge 50# bag, so I have to do something w/ it!! LOL


MIssing you Steve. (((((Steve)))))

HI Heatherjoy - I'm going to have to watch this thread, I just found it and havn't gone back to the original but I love doing tests like this. I bought Messenger and Mightyplant on a co-op this past spring and can hardly believe what they did to the scrawny tomato plants I bought. Fantastic is all I have to say. I also used Messenger on a dying variegated fig -which promptly turned around and came back and is nearly as full as it was last yr. The MightyPlant is 18-18-18 which is pretty heavy duty for me, but its working so,...

I bought the Messenger to use on some azaleas and rhodos that are diseased with azalea gall which weakens the plant over time and will kill it. The plants still have the disease but look healthier otherwise with lots of leaves.

I have a ton of MG in my garage that has turned into a blue lump from disuse. It seemed no matter what i did I would burn my plants - in the ground or in containers. I never could figure it out. I now use the Espoma products for most things, and my home made compost.

RE container mix. I used Promix this year and it is definitely mostly peat. But thats ok in a container as it holds water without crusting and is easily re-wetted. When I ran out I found an old bag of pine bark mulch - fine grade and mixed that with some various leftover bags of this and that, and topsoil, sand and leaf humus. The fines were to provide drainage. It seems to be working fine to tell the truth.
Thanks and I'll stay tuned
Andrea

Andrea, great info, thanks so much! Your mix sounds great and will probably be the best stuff you ever used. I've been mixing my own this year since seeing the immediate results of Impatiens and the good drainage it had. I do confess that I did just buy 2 bags of MG for potting up some Brugs and 'Maters, but you know how big the containers are for those plants...I got lazy.

More and more I'm finding that I just don't like the IDEA of MG. I guess I never even stopped to think about it until Steve brought the subject up, but all these years I've used MG and never questioned it. I always assumed it worked because they said it did, always assumed it was the best because they said it was...and showed the pics to prove it. Now I feel like I've been duped a bit...I just believed what they said because they said it. How silly.

For myself I'd love to be able to have an all organic garden. That may not be as far off as I thought it was a few months ago. Even if the organics don't do the best out of these tests I'm still considering trying for as close as 100% organic as I can get. I've been thinking lately that all my plants don't have to be fertilized to the point of forcing growth, but rather feeding the plant for it's normal growth. In my mind there's a difference, I hope you know what I mean.

What Epsoma products do you use?


Well, more rain today. The thunder woke me up this morning. I'll see if it quits if I can get those pics I promised.

Steve?? Are you lurking? Just wondering and thinking about you.
Heather

Ditto on the organic comments. Some gardeners believe that your perennials will be longer lived if they aren't 'forced' by using too much fertilizer. My prob is pests - each year there are new and different things and I'd like to zap them but have refrained and just decided Mother Nature figure it out. I am going to get after the Blister Beetles if they come back this year though. and Jap beetles - I thought I got all the BB's last year - they are vicious. I got web worms last yr too - ewwww yuck. Those I sprayed the s... out of. I can't let them in my garden. I've never had a problem with earwigs but they decided to go after a Sedum Matrona this year of all things - in a dry sunny spot. I would have thought they'd go for a dark damp spot. And this yr - no slugs to speak of but I've got gypsy moth cats for the first time, and a funny little yellow and black spotted beetle that looks kind of like what we used to call potato beetle. It is chewing the surfaces of a lot of plants - even lavenders and things you wouldn't think they'd prefer. Different weather, different problems. I'm glad for a sunny summer so far.

Espoma - I use a 50 lb bag of Hollytone almost every year among all the rhodos, azaleas, and evergreens. And another 25 lbs of Bulbtone. I don't buy Plant Tone because I make my own compost but it would be a cheaper alternative to Mighty Plant.

The bugs & pests are the thing that concerns me about organic gardening. I've read that once you start organic gardening the pests will come in force...but then the beneficial bugs come and wipe out the pests. I guess it's just having the patience to wait for the good bugs to come. I hope I can have the patience, I try, but I'm not always good at that. I try not to spray too much for bugs as it is, unless they are really destroying something.

Last year I read some articles about setting your garden up as a habitat for wildlife and I tried to follow the advice. I must have done something right because this year we have the caterpillars, butterflies, bugs I've never seen and even a snake. Not too happy about the snake, but I'm taking his presence as a compliment, LOL. We also had some Carpenter Bees, which are nasty little buggers. SooOO aggressive, they attack and buzz your head. I had to spray them, they wouldn't let me sit on my porch, plus they were eating (??) my porch.

Recently we've had a lot of rain, pretty much everyday for the last 2 1/2 weeks. That's not fun, but it has kept the bug population down, I haven't seen a Jap Beetle yet and I'm very thankful for that. However, I've also not seen many Ladybugs and that concerns me. I went out yesterday to dump some of the containers I had in the garden that had collected rain water and found one that contained tadpoles! Now I'll be checking them everyday to make sure they turn into nice bug eatin' froggies. I don't want that container to dry out.

tadpoles - how cool is that! Just think they're always telling us not to let water collect so mosquito larvae dont get started - and you have your own built in mosquito larvae eaters. Good luck on getting them to adulthood. I have seen leopard, tree, and green frogs in my garden, and 2 kinds of toads. Also, 4 types of salamanders. Thats why I hate sprays.

Did you get the Wildlife Habitat Certificate from the Natl Wildlife Federation? I thought about it and decided to just keep adding plants and shrubs that support the wildlife. I just added a Lindera benzoin - spicebush for butterflies, and I'm getting more species of milkweed for the Monarchs to choose from. Have many of the usual suspects for butterfly attracting flowers. I'm adding viburnums around the edges of our woods, and more and more dogwoods, washington hawthorn and crabapples. I need to find a cheap source for amelanchier starts. next year maybe. I've also added some larger evergreens - hemlocks and large yews, out in the woods for the birds to nest in.

That sounds wonderful. You should get your garden certified, just for your own enjoyment. If I went trying to do that my dh would have ME certified! LOL.

I just changed the way I did little things, like didn't clean up every little thing in the fall...left some things lie around for the critters to use as a refuge in the winter. I've been planting things this year that both the birds/butterflies and us will enjoy. We have hummers that visit and right now they can't even get to the feeder because it's hung to near our eaves...I keep forgetting to move it. I better do that tonight. They hang out here just for the flowers, which amazes me. Our front porch is covered w/ Petunias, Lantana, Hibiscus, Verbena and Fuschias. I'm trying to bring them all up to eye level so we can sit and watch them. I had one hummer buzz so close to my ear the other day I thought he was going to pierce it, scared the beJesus out of me!! There's been so much rain that I haven't really gotten to enjoy the butterflies yet. We do have lots of Eastern Tiger Swallowtails around though. I have a banana in the freezer just waiting for a nice hot, sunny day....someday I'll get to try it. I'll take pics and share when I get to.

Here's one for now, these were my first visitors this spring.

Rain, did someone say rain!!! I HATE rain, I used to like rain, not anymore!! I have SLLLLUUUUUGSSS! I so absolutely detest them things, and these guys are not picky, no, they eat everything!! We have had so much rain I found a frog outside my door the other day wanting IN!! Scared the heck out of me too, I nearly stepped on him!!
So, back to the slugs, I discovered them around 8 o'clock tonite so running out and getting radio active nuclear slug busters was not an option, I ran downstairs, jumped on DG and found the quick solution of salt, so here I was running around with a sea-salt grinder!! (All I had, didn't think seasoned salt was an option), I wear out my hands grinding the salt and what happens? We have another rain storm!!! It shook the house it was so bad! My containers are a swimmin!!! I had to rescue a Geranium the other day that was doing the back stroke!! I can go fishing in the back yard!! ( I hereby invite all to the International Carp Fishing festival) Arghhhhhhhhh!
BTW ~ can one get slugs in containers? And if so, then what do I do??

OK, I feel better now, I have vented!!

The rain however has made this container of home grown tropical plants grow like mad!!

LOL..You can put saucers out with beer in them they go in there party down and die...any kind of beer works..but mine prefer Bud...:o)))

Heathrjy - what a neat butterfly pic aren't they great?

Bec_No_Va - - - well all I can say is we had the same kind of spring and early summer for 3 years in a row. It was the pits - nothing ever dried out and the flowers stretched out too long and didn't bloom well and I was miserable with asthma. At least this year the dry spring got everything going well.

One spring we had 7 inches of rain in 30 hours and it came right through the basement wall. I had to take up all the plants and shrubs from the whole back of the house to let them re-waterproof the wall. Now 3 summers later everything has finally kind of settled back in. I still have plants from that out in my former veggie garden that need to be replanted. Its always something!

oooooooooooh Bec,
Lovely Perilla Magilla? next to your tropical plant (right?) Still learning to identify the flora!

Actually, I planted three of them yesterday in my sister's flowerbed!

Here's a pic of the original Perilla which is a Japanese salad herb - edible. I was told its called Shiso Perilla. Its the one with the dark purple leaves. It will grow to about 30" if let alone, or you can pinch it to make it fuller. They reseed readily and make a nice dark foliage plant that is easily removed.

Great pics everyone!! Hopefully today I can get the pics of the test plants. The sun is shining...at least for now!

I had a mini experiment of my own that was unintended. I planned to grow some morning glories this year and understood they did not like a lot of fertilizer. Instead of using my usual MG potting mix, I used Pro Mix. To use up all the Pro Mix I also potted up 3 mirabelis. I had a forth mirabelis that I potted up with MG. The plants potted in Pro Mix, including the morning glory, look awful. The leaves are a yellowish green and the mirabelis are half the size of the plant that was potted with MG. Last night, I added some granular MG fertilzer to those pots and tonight I'm giving them all a dose of Maxicrop with a dash of Super Thrive. I will never use anything but MG potting soil again.

Ah, yes - the rains. At least they have paused for us in PA.

Heather: I tried my plan with spreading the bunny poo on an old screen. Unfortunately, it then rained madly for two days; when I checked my poo spread, it had all been mushed into the screen. Yuck. However, I have more poo to work with and am hoping the drier weather will prove helpful. Also, the rabbit is happy because I spend so much time crawling around her cage. :-)

By the way, to all, I am going to post some pics of my painted pots under the 'Holeless Pots' thread I started.

I hear you Beaker! I proved that to myself five or six years ago. Only difference is I use the "garden soil' for my pots outside. it retains moisture longer. I can even re-use MG garden soil when I re-pot plants and add a little Osmocote and root stimulator. ...and all my Hostas stay in pots year round. I use a little Messenger on my mini hostas if they look tired, I guess it works, but I am not sure yet.

Sylvia

Sounds like the garden soil in pots has worked out well for your hostas, but I've heard many times that you should not use garden soil in containers, it does not have as good drainage as soil-less potting mix, so for many plants it could contribute to root rot, etc. For some plants it may turn out OK, but as a general rule potting mix is a better choice for containers.

This weekend I mixed MG garden soil and playsand in a 10:1 ratio. I sprinkled rooting hormone on top of this and mixed it in well, before potting up new Sago Palm puppies and coleus cuttings to root (I use a 3P rooting method: pinch, poke (a hole) and plant (what I pinched off!). The soil drainage was the best I have experienced yet! I hope that the water is saturating the soil adequately before it's running out. But it sure looks pretty good to me. I'll report more results as the week goes by.

Ecrane3, I did read that on that new organic garden soil mix. It terrified me so I just poured it in the beds. lol I dont remember reading that on the MG bag. I think maybe the reason is that it is so hot here ... and Hostas love water is probaly why I dont have problems with it. I dont have fertirlize either, just a little osmocote at the beggining of a season. I have been doing this for five or six now without any serious problems. When I got home from work this evening the plants in my bed were all drooping, but the plants in my pots looked fresh. I have to leave the soaker hose on all night sometimes with the plants in the ground ... this Texas heat is something else.

I can't imagine living with your kind of heat--I think I would wilt!

Hello everyone! I'm back, sorry it took so long, but I've just been hiding in my little hole :)

So time for the update....Things haven't gotten better they've actualy gotten worse, their still not speaking to us. My sister who has stopped talking to us has started talking to my other sister, who she never talked much to before. So, I had no idea what was going on(it's all been very confusing), untill a couple days ago when I called my other sister and asked her what was going on. She told me that she's noticed my BIL treats my sis much like a child, getting mad at her, picking her up and dropping her off, calling her all the time with "where are you what are you doing?" and also basicly emotionally abuses her. But one of the biggest things is that she loves him so much. He's convinced her that he's just so wonderful and that his family is wonderful and that us and our family is crap. My other sister also gave us a heads up that my sis and BIL are probably going to come by this weekend for a surprise visit(we're not supossed to know). Apparently they want to catch us off gaurd or something cause they're coming with a LIST of all our 'faults'. Thank goodness we'll be able to prepare ourselves! Talk to you all soon!

Steve