Fireants....I hate them!

I spend 90% of my garden time either weeding or mulching (usually mulching). I decided today I was going to take down an 8' section of 3' high wooden fence to open a little "vista" to better see my lovely tomato plants grow up their spirals (and not to mention alot of other plants-lol-mostly other plants) from my back patio. After all man does not live by mulching and weeding alone; not to mention the plants are pretty much "growing themselves" at this point in time and I've gotten caught up and only have about 20 pots now on the porch that need planting.

As you all know--I am the self-proclaimed mulch queen. Both sides of this fence are heavily mulched because there are garden beds on both sides. Luckily, I had those "Knee-high rubber boots that are on the back of everyone's pickup truck in Texas" on because (thank God) we had about 3 inches of rain down here earlier this week and I didn't want to "mash" the soil and mulch since it is wet. I look down and this "herd" (and I'm not exagerating here) of fireants is all over the thighs of my jeans. Next thing I feel them all over my hands and arms and stinging like you would not believe. I must have easily gotten 30 bites on my hands and arms. I have never been bitten by this many at one time!

While ya'll have not met me yet; some folks on the tomato forum have and they will tell you, I'm not that big a girl; but I threw that section of fence over the 10' bed (after all I was not going to ruin my prize clerondendrum shrub or my native columbines and fall-blooming asters--hey my priorities are in the right place) and ran for the back water spicket and started washing the "spawns of the devil" off my arms and hands. Yelling some words I didn't even realize I still remembered. Now the back spicket is about 5' from the back door and I knew these ants on my jeans were going to start biting me next. So here I am, 2:00 in the afternoon, tearing my jeans off in the back yard, still yelling at the top of my lungs. Now I have a wooden privacy fence but the houses on both sides of me are 2 stories. I finally am down to my cami top and underwear and look over at the house next door; who, unbeknownst to me because I was out back all day, were having an open house try to sell their house. I somehow get the feeling that they probably did not sell their house today..................

I hate fireants...they are the very spawn of the devil himself and should be banished from this planet.They are the one species nuclear weapons should have been designed to have been used against. I realize "northerners" have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm sure everyone from Texas here understands. Thank you for allowing me to rant about the garden pest of all garden pests down here in Texas!
Debbie




Dave's Garden

Ow.

I sympathize.

But I wish I'd been there with a camera....trained on the house next door!

I've had good luck mixing about an ounce of orange oil & a squirt of dish soap into a gallon of water & pouring the entire gallon over an undisturbed mound.

Best luck!

Oooh, Debbie! I'm so sorry, but you have to admit, the picture you painted is pretty funny, lol! I got into some ants today too, but not as bad as you.

Now that you found them, did you know you can kill them with agricultural orange oil and water? It won't poison anything, won't damage the soil - it will kill the worms in that area, but more will come back - and it kills them (doesn't just move them to another location.)

Fire ants are so aggravating ! Where do you get the orange oil yall mention?

Where do you buy this agricultural orange stuff? :)

Well I figured I may as well try to find the humor in the situation...thank goodness for benedryl pills...I was hoping I didn't go into anaphalytic shock..I am rather an "allergic-type" person and was hoping fireants weren't the sort of thing that you don't build a tolerance too. About now I look like I have "chicken pox" on my right forearm and my right hand is swollen.

I never did find the mound--they appeared to be "swarming" to me--thank goodness for the rain we had last week but its really brought them out of the woodwork! So beware all!

Debbie

I bought some orange oil at The Natural Gardener in Austin, but you can get it at other nurseries. I would call ahead to see if they have it. I need to buy some more (used the last of it yesrday), and I think that I have seen it at a feed store here in town, possible at Houston Garden World (the one with the umbrella), and at another feed store just outside of town. I'll have to check with Arbor Gate in Tomball.

Debbie, keep a close eye on that swelling, hope it doesn't get too bad.

I suspect its as bad as its going to get. I have to take off work tomorrow and take my daughter to the Dr. for pink eye....our first bought with that in 17 years--since he's a family doc I'll have him take a look at it.

I'll stop by the Houston Garden Center down the street--I never buy plants there but they might have the orange oil.

We've had very good look with Anti Fuego also. I think maybe Gardenville makes it, but lots of places sell it. It has orange oil in and lots of other things as well that are very good for the soil. I heard somebody on the radio discussing orange oil and they said you have to be sure to mix it to the right ratio or you can kill your grass. That got my attention because I need to dig another flower bed. But for the people who don't want dead grass, be careful. I don't know if it's true, but I think I read somewhere that fire ants prefer to make their nests in dirt that is stripped of nutrients. So they are more of a problem in yards where synthetic fertilizers and poisons have upset the balance of nature in the soil. I think I read that in one of Howard Garrett's newsletters.

I differ with you--this mound was in one of the richest flower beds I have.

Well, I guess it's not true then. We've been using organic stuff in our yard too. Never have used anything else and we still have fire ants once in a while. But they usually show up in the grass in the backyard where I don't use anything or at the edge of the path which is made of mulch. They don't seem to like the flower beds.

Thought you might find this interesting.
On my yahoo home page, I get a daily Farmer's Almanac Q+A. This was yesterday. I have no experience with this method or have ever heard of it before.

How do you kill ants in flower beds without harming plants or pets?

Sprinkle some hot pepper flakes where the ants are nesting.

Don't know if the above method would make the Texas fire ant devils flinch, but might be worth a try.

I have heard that works. I have also heard of using minced garlic. Never tried either one.
Mary Lee

I'm sorry but I'm ROFL, can't help it! You'll appreciate it more as soon as some time has passed. Fire ants aren't picky about soil...they are equal opportunity pests! I also had people tell me that only compost piles that are too dry will have fire ants, but used to have them in a moist pile too. I use a Spinosad bait, Green Light Fire Ant Control with Conserve. It take some time (because it's organic) but it works!

Debbie, If you find the orange oil, PLMK. I have a mound in the back near my hibiscus and always have a problem with them in my beds. Last year, I pulled out a huge clump of fountain grass only to find that the entire clump and all the soil around it was a huge mound. I'm with you....I HATE THEM!

Ok here is my 2 cents worth of organic ant killer. I haven't ever tried this
but seriously thinking about doing it. I read in a book, 1001 Garden Hints
that if sprinkle a mound of dry (uncooked) grits that the ants will take this
back into the mound and eat it and it will swell and make them explode.
I swear not an April Fools joke, I really did read this!!! (LOL)

Angela

Hey I am all for organic methods of getting rid of these guys. they took over some pots in my greenhouse and ate up my feet this weekend. And they seem to be all over the yard. However, I have a potbellied pig who likes to graze back there so I don't want to use any poisons. May give the grits a try.

Kim

Blue -eyes, there is a product made from natural organic materials called
Diatomaceous earth, or DE, this product works by injuring the soft body parts of insects, when they come in contact with it, and the die by dehadration.
It is not hamful to pets, humans, or plants.
It is sold under the name Perma- Guard, in specialty stores.
Or check out www.perma-guard.com and inquire about where to buy iy.

Josephine.

Bless your heart! I've been there, done that too, lol. The construction workers at the house next door saw me in my underware while I was running for the back gate.
We use Amdro sometimes. The part of the yard that has sprinklers doesn't get as many fireants as the part that never gets watered. Someone told me they don't like constant disturbance and the sprinklers bother them.
I need to check on orange oil, I'm so afraid my dog will eat the Amdro(or the birds will eat it).

I think my ants are immune to Amdro!!! I swear we have bought so much
of that stuff and they are still going strong. I have told my husband NO MORE
AMDRO, I feel like we are just throwing our money away with that stuff any
more.

Well I guess I'll be wearing long sleeves for a week--my right arm looks as if I hade a minor case of small pox. I went out there with some diatamaceous earth--hope that sends them back to their maker!

Now that I look at the view I opened up, I guess it was worth it!

Debbie

By the way, the bed in the front was only built last spring. My two "youngster" cypress trees came from the arbor day last year. The tecoma stans is also young (less than one year old), native asters and columbines. A clerondendrum and 3 hamelias in the back, which were froze back to the ground. Those hollyhocks you see should be blooming soon. You can also see a Tx star hibiscus in back of them and a redbud tree starting to leaf out (looking a little bald right now). And the guardian of the garden whom is not earning his keep.....at least as far as fire ants go!

This message was edited Apr 3, 2006 5:06 PM

This is silverfluter's DH. the DW only told part of the story as far as organic gardening getting rid of fire ants. First of all, our histoy in the yard, we did the amdro and the diatomacious earth. It worked on the mounds to some extent, but more always popped up somewhere else. We were still using a few chemicals at this time, mostly fertilizers. Then we went completely organic. Perhaps the driving force was two very old huge live oak trees in our side yard, and the presence of oak wilt decline about 1/4 mile away. We had heard from different sources, that if you keep your oaks healthy, that is the best defense against the oak wilt. So we hit the entire yard, heavier concentration around the oak trees, with compost, molassas, corn meal, texas green sand, lava sand, and organic 6-2-2 fertilizer. We did none of this for fire ant control, but we noticed the next spring, that we had no fireants, where we had at least 8 major mounds the year before and 30 or more minor mounds. We began to inquire as to just where did they go. What DW said about fire ants not liking rich healthy soils is only part of the story. They will in fact do well in rich soils, if the soil is not "active" with native critters, especially native ant species. We have been told, in particular, the little brown sugar ants, are like skunks to fire ants. We had noticed the little brown ants after we went organic. We have had fire ant mounds return, but they seem to spring up in fringe areas or where there has been some disturbance. Example... next to a limestone retaining wall, under a large photinia that we transplanted, in and next to the pavers under the arbor and next to the driveway. Large mounds of fireants in any neighborhood will produce thousands of queen ants that scatter to the four winds to establish new colonies. Going completely organic seems to be the best way to combat their ability to completely rule your yard as was the situation here. Results may vary because of so many variables, but you will be on the right track.

I think they move to higher ground when its really wet in the grass. Common sense tells you that.

I've usually noticed them in parts of the yard that are never disturbed.

This message was edited Apr 3, 2006 9:34 PM

Debbie, I am sorry to laugh,...LOL!.... but the comment about them not selling the house today, sent me over the top! ROFLOL!!!
I had injured myself while water skiing several years back at the lake. I was limping very badly, so someone drove me to the facilities. As we returned and parked, I stepped out on my good leg, barefooted, right into the middle of a fire ant bed in the dark. As I stood up and closed the door they began to do their thing. I started trying to lift my leg and brush them off, and then would have pain on the other and put it down. This went back and forth as I walked toward the fire to see better. My group that was sitting around the fire we rolling by this time watching me, not sure what I was hollering and jumping around for. Finally someone realized and drenched me with a water bottle to get them off. It was very painful, so I can sympatize with you, but also know you will tell your story for a long time and laugh too.

Sorry for the long post..
As for the ants, a exterminator told my husband and I a while back when he treated our roof for carpenter ants, that the tiny little ants we had outside, were Argentina ants and they are our best defense against fire ants. Not sure just what it was they do.

My yard is an equal opportunity employer for all types of ants! We try to do almost everything organic but no amount of organic fertilizer will work on our yard, we use Scott's for it. We do put out dried molasses a couple of times a year tho and I do think this helps with the fire ants. I am a Howard Garrett fan but have learned that he doesn't know everything. His answer to a lot of things is "it's because of poor soil".

After a heavy rain a mound or two will pop up. I have and still do use several things. They became immune or either stopped eating the Amdro, so I switched to just using the orange oil. It will kill the ants on contact and is great for dissolving those horrible mounds, but it won't kill the queen. The rest of them will just move or stay under for a while. We have 2 spots (corner of the house, by the curb) that no matter how much of anything I put on it, they come back. I'm using the Spinosad and Green Light now, along with a much cheaper version of the same ingredients as Amdro.

I never walk in the yard barefoot and always wear shoes that cover my feet when I'm going to be standing in the beds for more than a minute. I've only gotten bit twice so far but the 2nd one was strong! It had been saving all the venom up for months for just that moment. I use the Benadryl (generic) cream on them but can't take those pills. They start working on me about 12 hrs later. zzzz

I've found a lot of them around the roots of plants too. Last year they killed quite a few of my big cosmos. I'd start noticing the plant looked weak and sure enough, I'd pull it up and tons would come out. aaaahhhh!!!! I hate them too! I'm dealing with another kind for the 2nd year now. I think they are Acrobat ants. They come for the aphids, I think. They also come inside. I'm considering something more toxic around the house because I have this horrible image of this GIGANTIC MOUND OF ANTS UNDER MY HOUSE!!!

I'm sure this thread will become long this season as well all do our own version of "the Fire Ant dance". :(

edited to say that I've done the dry grits thing too and it didn't work.


This message was edited Apr 3, 2006 11:18 PM

Debbie,
You have my deepest sympathy - those fireant bites hurt like the dickens. Glad you didn't go into shock - my sister did years ago and still has to be really careful.

I've had trouble with them nesting around lantanas, so am going to try the orange oil. Hope it works because we have several mounds right now.

Sharon

I haven't heard if my neighbor sold her house or not, kinda scared to ask.

When I see a fire ant mound, I put my tea kettle on to boil. A really big mound will sometimes need a second kettleful, but they are quickly gone! Pour directly into the main opening. Non-toxic.

For relief from the terrible burning of the stings, household bleach helps. Takes a few minutes to work. Dilute about half with water if you can tolerate waiting long enough. I had a collection of tee shirts with white splotches when pain caused me to be hasty in applying it.

Yuska

Boiling water method works very well--unless you are close to a plant you want to save. It also kills weeds in sidewalk cracks well too.

LOL Debbie! I totally hear your plight!!! I'm from Michigan and we hadn't been invaded last time I was there but it's a matter of time. I'm happy to call myself a Texan now and since living in our own home about a year I can honestly say I can go barefoot just as I enjoyed up north and have never stepped on fireants in our yard. We treat with the ant granules as often as the bag recommends but recently bought the new Ortho one-year treatment, we'll see how long it really lasts, but is supposed to last through rains even so must be good. Don't their mounds always seem to pop up overnight after a rain!

I don't really look forward to a favorite pasttime of camping down here though!


This message was edited Jun 2, 2006 2:57 PM

Well, I couldn't find the orange oil at the feed store I was thinking about, haven't gotten to the other one or to Houston Gardens (I also don't buy plants there, but they do carry things like Medina soil activator, etc.) I did find out that The Arbor Gate in Tomball does carry it. They only had one left when I called today (minutes after I left there - I forgot it!), but had already re-ordered. It comes in a quart size, runs about $18.00. That's about what I paid for it at The Natural Gardener in Austin, but of course you get a number of uses from it.

I "discovered" orange oil for ants when I asked John Dromgoole (at the Austin nursery date last year) about a Mexican Mint marigold in one of my beds that was almost smothered by an ant mound. I wanted to get rid of the ants, but didn't want to damage the plant or the soil in the bed. That's when he told me about drenching the mound with the water and orange oil. The thing is, it actually KILLS the ants - and the eggs and the queen - right away. No waiting for days for it to work, no relocation of the mound, they are just finished.

And it leaves a nice, orange smell behind.
:-)

Just a tip for anyone else looking for orange oil, I found it at lowes on Monday. My local Feed Store also carries it.

We are having problems with fireants at the new house. I went ahead and bought some Amdro a few weeks ago, and have been adding it to the mounds. They were under a few stepping stones and there was one large mound. They are now all gone from under the stepping stones and such, but they keep moving and building a new large mound each time I add the Amdro. I don't like to use the poison anyway, so I am glad to find out about Orange Oil working for some people.

As far as the claims that they don't like to make homes in healthy dirt and such, I believe it. At the old house, we had them the first year, but once we stopped the previous owner's cycle of yearly pest treatments and used mostly organic fertilizers and such, we no longer had them. Hopefully we can get the yard and beds healthy and active again and get rid of the fireants.

More Farmer's Almanac ant advice (today's posted Q+A)

Are there plants that can repel ants?

Some herbs that will keep ants away are catnip, pennyroyal, peppermint, sage, and spearmint. Scattering the leaves of these plants in areas of your house where you've seen ants may keep them away. Tansy will work on sugar ants -- the ones you see in your kitchen

I'm off on a mission for orange oil Maggie--will let you know where I find some (trying the big boxes first)....I think they move to high ground after rain--I've been organic 12 years; I'll put my soil up against anyone's...fireants are everywhere down here.

I have lived in Houston and with the humidity and warm weather, you have all kinds of insects there. The most disgusting of all being the huge water bugs! I had a brick house and they lay their egg cases in the mortar between the bricks! Eeeeugh!!

Sheilah--I think there some sort of mutation of the petrochemical businesses....LOL

ROFLOL!!! I can believe that! I did love Houston because of the tall trees, other tropical vegatation, and no snow, but with the good comes the not so good. No better or worse, just different from one place to the other.

Great info on fire ants...

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/452021/

Howdy, and I'm new to the site.

I've never tried the orange oil, but if you use grits, make sure it's INSTANT grits. And give the little darlings PLENTY of it to eat. So they'll take it to the queen and she'll get some, too.

And in an emergency situation, wiping toothpaste on the bites will help.

I wish we could find out how they swarm and then all bite at once. Does one of the little buggers have a trumpet?

I last got orange oil at Lowe's, & before that it was from the Orange TKO booth at a garden show.

I *immediately* dab ammonia on ant bites.
(Ammonia neutralizes formic acid.)

I keep a bottle of it in the garden (along with rubber gloves, baking soda for wasp stings, plastic knives & Sharpies for labelling, twistie ties, plastic bags, newspaper...)