Straw bale gardening: no weeding, no hoeing, no tilling

Let it stay--we all need to vent! I vented about fireants on the Tx and tomato forum--he they are the spawns of the devil in my opinion.
Debbie

Love the round bale idea. That just sounds like so much fun. Gotta think about that.

Kent,

Speaking of ants. Are they good for the compost part? I have just noticed that those little black ants have taken up residence at the bottom of my bales. Should I get out the ant dust or let them be?

The tempature is about 125 degrees for about a week. What was the best temp. to plant in? I got the bales from 2 different places, the one had fresh bales with the synthetic string and the other place had old bales that were a little darker in color. The old ones have only gotten to 80 degrees but have started sprouting the wheat. The fresh ones are hotter and have not shown signs of sprouting. Thanks for all of your help. This is great to talk to people with the same goal of gardening.
Melinda

Melinda, I'm not sure about the ants; I didn't notice any nesting in my bales last year. Before using the ant dust, keep your bales watered good and they'll probably vacate since the ground will be wet undeneath the bales. Otherwise, use your best judgement since you're the "Commander" in the field. The only creatures I had were fishing worms under the bales.

I didn't really follow a temperature guide last year; I used the 10 day prep and on day 11, transplanted everything into the bales. If you're using a different source of nitrogen to prep the bales, then you may have to add a day or so b4 transplanting.

I'm being redundant, but water the new bales well and you should be fine. You just don't want the tender roots to get dryed out.

Melinda - if you decide to get rid of the ants try sprinkling cinnamon on them so you don't have to use insecticide near your veggies. Costco has 1 lb containers for about $4 - way more than enough to get them to take off.

Lilypon: I need to ask my neighbor, who bales these "monster" bales, how much 1 costs. Now I'm envisioning some regular bales on TOP of the monster bale, kind of like a pyramid/cascading effect.

Yeah, that's it, a living cucumber waterfall.

I must have too much time on my hand! LOL

LOLOL and spare cash! ;)

Kent hopefully he will also deliver it for you. ;)

Large round bales will weigh 500 to 3,000 pounds with dimensions varying with the baler manufacturer and model. Usually the bales are 5 to 7 feet long and 5 to 7 feet in diameter. Bale weight depends not only on dimensions but also on the type and quality of hay baled.

The round hay bales we feed our cows are 20.00 each and weigh about 1800 pounds. Straw should be priced a lot less.

Wheat straw bales are $4.00 each here. No quantity discounts. With tax, $29.59 for 7 bales.

Ouch, roseone. At Lowe's here they were more like $2.75.

But I traded someone fresh butter and eggs for some bales instead of buying them. :)

Got my 60 bales delivered this morning b4 I had to go on shift; 50 for me and 10 for my bride to play around some with her flowers; $3/bale; $2.50 if you get 100 or more

Now I've got to watch for the plants to come in at my local nursery.

I feel your pain Roseone33 - I paid $4 also for wheat straw and I called around to 5-6 places. Now that I know what I want I'll find a better situation next year. Zeppy - oooh yum - fresh butter -haven't had that in ages. I buy Auracana eggs from a friend and they are great. But I cannot imagine dealing with the outcomes of 50 bales of straw gardening. Oh my ! Somebody likes their spaghetti sauce.

Alyrics: I love my bride's spaghetti sauce! Yum! Giving away lots of veggies at work, neighbors, family, etc is my little ministry. I grow Habanero peppers to give especially to a Korean woman who has a snack shop next to Sheriff's office so she can spice up her stir fry. Her "Double Spicy" stir fry will bring tears to your eyes.

I'm still trying to track down someone with the rectangular bales. Last time I asked how much one rectangular one would be they quoted $5.00 CDN or $4.30 U.S. It was during a dry year tho so hopefully I can find some cheaper now.

It is the round bales possible price that I was referring to above (esp if you are paying for delivery as well ;) Mind you if it's your next door neighbour doing the delivery the price *should* be very reasonable.

around here, the bales go for $4.65 to $6.oo each

My goodness. Are we talking hay or straw? But, you have to figure the time of year. I would imagine it is almost gone now. It's like buying 50# of potatoes or onions. It's the end of them in bulk so really high.

It's no secret, that through experience we've all learned, that there is no such thing as something for nothing. I always kick myself when I'm awakened by my own euphamisms that say "that only a person who sells for less knows it's true value" and that "usually you pay for what you get". Now, I say all that to say this about purchasing straw bales. From having no experience, to having a little experience, with no research, afore mentioned, when we bought our bales we looked 3 different places, found 2 different prices, found 3 different quality of product and relized that "all straw bales are not equal"!! First, we looked at Lowes where we found bales for $4 each that were very loosely tied and lightweight. Second, we found a good quality, tightly bound, heavier bale, that appeared to be freshly harvested wheat bales for $4 that looked really good. We bought 18 of those our first load. Then, we found another feed and seed store that gave a price of $3 each and decided to save money with 9 bales that proved to be an older straw loosely tied and had to retie. Having gone through all of this we went back to the second place and bought 15 more at the higher price. Now the main difference between the 2 is that the fresher bales heated up to 125-130 degrees and are taking longer to compost but because we did not have to retie them we've saved time and energy and believe they will last an extra year. The older straw did not heat up as much and is already decomposing a lot faster. So, please fill us in when you have the time, of those who know the difference, out of curiosity, about the different types of straw. Maybe a research project for next fall or winter.

I am trying to think about the older ones heating up and decomposing faster. Which is what Kent was trying to accomplish with the amonium nitrate. So, you saved the time and the money of not buying that. But, it is not going to last an extra year like the fresher bales that took longer to get to the same point that the older bales did. Plus you paid a dollar more for the fresher bales.

And you don't know they will last a year longer.

I love crossword puzzles but this one has me stumped. AND, I still don't know what your answer was.

I'm approaching this as an experiment. Kent has us all fired up that's for sure! I went and got a few books on vegetable gardening from the library and one sentence stuck out in my mind.. The author said - 'Start small, don't burn yourself out the first year. A few plants of each vegetable can give you fresh produce for your family and a few to share. You will see how much you can, and are willing to take care of by the end of the summer when its no fun to weed and water anymore.'

Good advice I think whenever you are starting a new garden endeavor. This from someone with 20 containers of Wintersown seedlings on the deck and precious little room in the borders.
So I figured 12 bales plus whatever I plant in a big raised bed ought to help me figure out what works. The thing I like the best about this straw gardening idea is NO WEEDING. I hate weeding. Actually I don't mind weeding per se - its kind of relaxing, its the fact that it has to be kept up with.

Anyway we are all going to be thinking of what the group reports about old straw when its time for the neighbors to toss their Halloween decorations. I for one have old wheat and oat straw, and new wheat. America will be decorated with lumpy tarps in the back yard covering next years garden. I promise to scientifically sample the outcomes from each of my experimental bales and report back on which tomatoes tasted better on which kind of bread and with what kind of mayo. DH is supposed to be watching his cholesterol so we might be using turkey bacon on the BLT's but I'll try not to let this skew my results.

What tomatoes are you growing, alyrics?

I'm taking on a row of these bales as a lark. I really like the idea, but until reasons of health or land intervene, I will keep my traditional soil garden. I just love playing in the dirt.

What I'm most excited to find is whether this method will help me confuse and thwart the evil squash vine borer. If it does, then I'll have a straw bale row of curcubits for the rest of my gardening life. :)

I love it that you veggie gardeners call them curbubits - I don't know why that word makes me laugh. Now every morning 'm looking at my un-germinated wintersown pot of bush-curcubits and talking to myself about curcubits instead of cucumbers. Tomatoes. I have Sweet 100 because its a family requirement and then I'm stumped. I tried Early Girl and some other early varieties in containers at my house the past 2 years and I thought they were tasteless but that might be my lack of sun. The Burpee catalog is promoting new Brandy Boy hybrid that supposedly is the best tasting. I want red or pink sandwich tomatoes first of all, my kids will like the cherries, and I want italians for sauce. I will know more after next Monday, I'm meeting a friend to trade seeds and she has 6 or 8 kinds of tomato seeds. I also suspect that every area is going to grow a different tomato better so I'm looking for someone locally to tell me what to grow. I thought I had a little time but I better get going. I had already bought Burpees 'Picklebush' bush curcubit for containers before I started reading this forum so I'm going to try that.

Well, you dmail me if you want any seeds b/c I've got over 30 cultivars this year.

Curcubit curcubit curcubit curcubit

...And Oh, by the way, I figured that we'd save about 75 percent of the cost for raised bed gardening plus the physical work for moving approx. 10 yards of compost. In comparaison, just to give you an idea of how much 10cu yards is those pallets wrapped in plastic wrap at the stores of 60 forty pound bags of manure or compost, are approx. 2cu yards each. Not only that, but you have to build frames out of cedar, cypress, or red wood, which if you haven't priced lately is almost as expensive as silver. OK, in reply to Jnette as to what I was trying to say, is that fresh is better for us.

Oh Zepster - watch your D-mail ! I'll send you a list of what I have also.

Kent - I love habaneros - have you ever had Melinda's Hot Sauce or Marie Sharp's Pepper Sauce - both from Belize? They mix the habaneros with carrot juice and vinegar. The carrot sweetness cuts the bite out of the habaneros so you can actually taste them not just feel the heat. I used to work for the botany dept at school - and did some work for Dr. Hardy Eshbaugh, a botanical geneticist who at the time was the worlds recognized expert in hot peppers, I'm sure he's long retired now. He went all over the world gathering seed of hot peppers and we grew them. You better not wipe your eyes after working there.

Good morning all!

alyrics: I haven't tried those sauces but I'll check them out. And you're right, I pick habaneros bare handed but NEVER cut them up w/out gloves. A co-worker gave some to her mother and her mother said, "Tell that man that if hell is any hotter, I don't want no part of it."

I, too, have chuckled every time I see "curcubit". I don't know why. Never heard the word until this forum got started. Sounds like something Spock would say while giving the Vulcan hand sign.



This message was edited Apr 6, 2006 2:00 PM

Live long and curcube

Or, I can even hear Kojak saying, "Who curcubes you, Baby!"

I picked up some Sta-Green 29-2-5 2 month release lawn fertilizer. I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem?

It doesn't seem to be watering in too well. Should I try something else, or will the sun melt this stuff up a little after a while?

Mine's taking a while to get soaked too, and I'm using a soaker hose.

Well, folks, our wheat straw bales, having to come all the way up and over/across the Peninsula from Half Moon Bay to here in Redwood City, cost $9.50 each with free delivery at a count of 20 bales - and counting up the costs of things plus distance here, I think we're doing all right (ow ow okay).

Pastorino Hay called middayish, to let me know the truck was on its way with a few stops in between, and that I should expect them some time after 2pm.
Raindrops have just spattered the windows.
The clock would ring three if we had a clock with bells on, and no straw yet (*bounce!*).
Unless that was them just driving by...

...yes indeed it was! That WAS just them, going by as I happened to glance up and see the reflection in the back window through the front window - they were just down the block wondering if someone was going to do a little straw-bale construction at the new house going up down on the corner. (cool - everybody's excited about that! and the clay soil here would make someone the perfect cob).

So - the hay arrived and got offloaded - our 16 bales to the back (stacked) and 8 bales for our neighbor pals who got excited and joined in the delivery-load, are stacked up between the front walk and the curb, and I found a couple of tarps and tied them on the top half of theirs (as low as what I've got'll dangle), and swept up the spare half-a-compost-binful of loose straw that landed on the drive just as the rain started pelting down.

Now that's timing.

Photo out the rain-bespattered back window (sorry for the autofocus going for the raindrops but I'm just out of camera battery, so take your glasses off before you look at this one); 'ware the monster borage, that pale green white-flowery beast - a curcubit or two in and of itself! - in front of the haybales was in a 4" pot five months ago. The bees adore it.

Alright Ru! Zeppy! Keep those pics coming! I'm thinking of a few bales in my suburban back yard for the fall garden---I'll find space somewhere! LOL I'm thinking that little added distance off the ground might give me some frost protection on really lite frost nights (which most of ours are). Any thoughts on that folks?
Debbie

Get the bale police! Mine are only half size and they were $4 each! If you stack them together they look like one bale I only got two thank goodness - from Southern States. I better go find a farmer with real size bales! I did order amonium nitrate and will get it this week.

Debbie - I would think less protection in the bale from frost. Sorta like a container plant would freeze before a ground plant. YMMV

-Kim

Kim, I thought maybe you should send those bale police to me too. I paid $5 for them. They are big though, so maybe they could just get a warning ticket? LOL

Jeanette

Ok, I don't think the Sta-Green 29-2-5 lawn fertilizer is breaking down fast enough. I'm on Day 7, and not much heat on the bales. My bales were already 2-3 months old according to the seller.

I did pick up some ammonium SULFATE, 21-0-0 and tried it out. It dissolved FAST when water was applied so I'm going to finish with it instead of the lawn fertilizer. I got the sulfate from Lowes.

Here's our 30 bales. $2.50 each for us to pick-up. We're doing a garden for my in-laws at their retirement community and feel this will be a real hit with the octogenarian gardeners out there :)

Can't wait !!!

Dea

Ok you chemists - what would stop us from pouring a gallon of household ammonia over each bale?Besides the daily cost?
Do you think the FBI would object to us starting an Ammonium Nitrate co-op ? I can see it now

Headline above the fold:

Wake County, NC law enforcement officer apprehended with 2 tons of Ammonium Nitrate.
Claims he's sending it to gardeners all over America 10 cupfuls at a time. "Likely story" says bomb squad - "Who could possibly know that many gardeners?"

You know this post is probably being read even before I type it by a Cray supercomputer.

alyrics: I just came in from adding another 5' section to my arch trellis and busted out laughing when I read your post!!

Follow up headlines:

Sleeper Cells of Bale Gardeners Across USA Surprises Homeland Security - Al Gore claims heat from bales adding to Global Warming

Bob Woodward to ink new book - cited confidential source named "Deep Straw" who will expose Bale Gardeners as "just a bunch of folks who love gardening".

So everyone who googled ammonium nitrate, is more than likely on some list now. Great.