Question about an ebayer I'm having trouble with

Just putting in my two cents.

I had a bad experience with a bulb purchase last year, and by the time they bloomed the deadlines for PayPal and eBay were done. I had just for some strange reason used my Visa card for that purchase, and they went after the guy. I received a full refund where he had been ignoring me and my problem.

I learned a lot from that one and have now begun using my Visa card through PayPal with anyone I've not dealt with before or anything more than a few dollars. That practice got me a refund for baby clothes that were never sent, also last summer.

Once a seller gets into trouble with eBay, you can kiss any refunds goodbye, another lesson learned by personal experience. I purchased a LOT of iris in April of last year (before I found out about DG, of course) from one seller--to be shipped in September. She shorted me on three, kept saying if I would let her know which ones she would send them, but she never did and now she's been kicked out of eBay--and I'm out about $20 or so.

So.....in one summer I had three bad deals, two of which I was able to get refunds on. I have found with some of these volume sellers that even if the feedback is showing all positives, they may be saying negative things, but trying to avoid retaliation by the seller. I just about don't buy from eBay anymore unless it's someone I can check out or have dealt with before. It's just about not worth it.

Someone above asked about plantranch. Whatever you do, stay away from him. His products are not very good and he is NASTY when you say so. He goes on a vendetta. I complained about a dead shipment, he sent a second dead shipment--and then I left feedback. In all my dealings on eBay, he's the only one I ever received a negative comment from and he was lying by saying we had discussed his guarantee when we had not. That company is bad news and that's when I noticed that positive comments do not have to say positive things.

There are too many honest people out there to waste time on a jerk. The problem is finding them. Go over their feedback with a fine toothed comb and then keep copies of everything you do. My pictures of the wrong bulbs in bloom got my money back from THAT guy, so take pictures if you can.

I'm sorry, Gardenwife, I didn't watch this thread and didn't see your question til now. There are apparently two kinds of these Visa cards. The ones I use are not "reloadaDble" but the other type is. There are more fees associated with it, so I haven't tried it. And no, you can't consolidate the small amounts onto one card. However when I end up with three or four cards with a few dollars each on them, I just use them to pay online for a bill, usually my internet access. Also, I can use them at the grocery store.

Dom

Feedback at eBay is worthless, absolutely worthless for reasons stated above.

1gardengram hit in on the head, remit via PayPal and make sure to select the option for credit card not your bank. Anyone notice how they default to drafting electronically from your bank account? That's because you will have no final recourse as you would with your credit card company.

I typed this earlier on in this thread-

I stand by this. With a US Postal Money Order, you have the option of contacting the US Postal authority and submitting a fraud report and those people are nothing to mess with. When using your PayPal account and selecting the option to pay by credit card, you can contest the charge with your credit card company.

With what I have learned, I will never tender payment for any eBay purchase any way other than via US Postal Money Order or a Credit Card. eBay's Safe Harbor is a flaming joke and their system of feedback is an even bigger joke. They could fix it by dictating that the total number of transactions for a seller/buyer be shown and they could fix it by dictating that the seller must first leave feedback as once they are paid, the buyer has fulfilled their end of the deal but eBay chooses to leave their current feedback system as is for obvious reasons. Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

I enjoy buying from eBay now only because I've learned my lesson. Papertrail, papertrail, papertrail AND tender payment by a means that protects me... not the seller.

I hate my good feedback being held for ransom. I pay instantly and that should immediately generate good feedback, as I have done what I was supposed to do, but more and more sellers are waiting to see what you say about them first. That is so unfair that I about can't even deal with ebay anymore.

I just concluded three separate deals with sellers that are not leaving me feedback yet. I have rec'd an email from one telling me that she shipped my package yesterday, one came in yesterday's mail, and the third has not said anything since my several auctions have been completed but was very nice during the auctions themselves so I think I am OK on the deal.

It just makes me so mad that every seller now seems to be waiting for buyer feedback. It's not supposed to happen that way. Ebay could fix the problem as was mentioned above by not allowing buyer feedback until the seller has done their portion. But it'll be a very cold day you know where before ebay takes any action. They protect the sellers at all cost. I don't know why I even go to ebay anymore. Somebody stop me!!!!!

I have found some wonderful items on ebay and I can't say that I haven't. That's not the problem. It's the attitude of the sellers that is giving me grief.

As a buyer, I don't mind leaving feedback first. It's up to me to let the seller know when the transaction is completed to my satisfaction and we're done.

Sellers are not holding your feedback for ransom. Feedback is to rate the ENTIRE transaction, from start to finish. Your payment is not the end of the transaction. It's just part of the process. Generally, the transaction is complete when you've received your product and are happy with it. By leaving feedback, you let the seller know he has completed his obligation. Then he too can consider the transaction complete and leave you feedback.

Some buyers will leave negative feedback rather than contact the seller if there is a problem. If there is a problem, obviously the transaction is not complete. The seller should be given the opportunity to correct the problem, but often buyers just get mad and impulsively leave negative feedback. And to me, that's worse than bidding and not paying.

Wouldn't you want to know that altho a buyer paid, he also cussed me out because the box was too big for his mailbox and he was inconvenienced by having to go pick it up at the P.O.? If I leave him positive feedback for the payment, then you are only getting half the story, which is probably why you think Ebay feedback is bologna. There are too many loose cannons out there. So some of us are cautious.

Ebay is no different from trading here or buying locally. There's always a bad apple out there, no matter where you go. But I think most of us can say that we've seen more good than bad. I've done many transactions on Ebay, buying and selling, and 99% have been wonderful.

I have done a lot on ebay, also, and I still resent the fact that my part of the transaction is not rated until the seller decides my feedback was complimentary enough. When I have been a seller, I gave quick feedback for quick payment. The feedback can be followed up on if necessary.

What about the seller who delays sending well beyond the ship date and doesn't answer questions about where the product is? If the product is finally delivered and lives up to the billing, should the seller still get some negative feedback for less than satisfactory service? Wouldn't this help future buyers? It seems like eBay should have a better feedback system than 3 grades anyway - maybe 5 grades and a few more questions. I find the feedback a big farce as well.

Buyers are leaving positive feedback on eBay so they don't offend the seller and then vent in these kinds of forums without exposing the seller. Some sellers might correct any problems if contacted, but a lot shrug it off ("It was fine when it left here so now it's your problem") so the buyer uses this experience to not even bother with feedback or contacting any seller in future transactions.

Gardengram, as I stated, "your part of the transaction" isn't over until you've received the item and are pleased with it. If you have a problem with the shipment, how you react is part of "your part of the transaction." Just because you quickly paid doesn't make you a great buyer. It goes beyond that. When a crisis arises, how do you handle it? Do you automatically jump to vindictive negative feedback to get even, as some buyers do? Or do you give the seller an opportunity to work it out? Your reaction to a crisis is part of what a seller's feedback should evaluate.


HC, what do you call "late shipping?" I had a friend who hadn't received her auction winnings after ten days and she was mad. Well, the auction clearly stated that shipping could take two to three weeks. She wanted to leave negative feedback even though she got her items within two weeks of her payment and they were beautiful. She just didn't think it should take that long. Well, ebay sellers have a life too. Many of them have full time jobs and families and real life, just like the rest of us.

As for not answering emails, please remember that many email accounts now have spam blockers. Your emails may be automatically being blocked by the spam blockers and the sellers may never even see your emails. The internet is not perfect.

Honestly, how many real problems have y'all had with ebay buyers or sellers? How many total transactions have you done? I've done about 1000 transactions there and have had about 6 bad experiences. Three of those were from non-paying bidders.

Unless someone makes the feedback system less open to major abuse from nefarious sellers and buyers alike, many from both parties are going to be cautious. Most aren't holding anyone to ransom by withholding feedback, they are just concerned about protecting the reputation they have already.

It's a pity people feel they can't make an honest comment in a system designed for such things. I remember an Ebayer who had 100% long term good rep and had it thoroughly ruined because a hacker had got into his account and ordered from a lot of people. The Ebayer emailed us all within two days to explain what had happened, it was clear that Ebay was dealing with a problem from his member status for a few days. I was astounded to see that a lot of people still left foul and vicious comments despite the fact they had all been informed of the problem and that their fees were all fully refunded, OK it was a bit of inconvenience but a relist is only a couple of clicks, no one had really lost out other than the member who had been hacked. I was very disappointed for him.

Trouble is Ebay is open to everyone, not just retailers and even many of the businesses are startups. There are a lot of things that annoy me about it but I've also had some good sales and buys from there, I could say the same about our local 'in the flesh' auctions too and they are definitely sold as seen items from there!

ButterflyChaser

I agree with all you said there. I've had some buyers email me wanting to know where their stuff was even though the postman had tried to deliver the items and had posted a card through the door to ask them to arrange another delivery or collect the parcel.

Why would someone's inability to read a card the postman left, let alone being unable to receive the item despite knowing it won't fit through the letterbox or they have to sign for the item, be any of my fault? Then I have the hassle of sending out a replacement or giving a full refund while waiting weeks for the original to come back.

Then there are those who pay you with unspecified methods, it might be prompt but if you can't convert it into cash or pay it into an account it's pretty worthless.

You're right it doesn't just end with a prompt payment.






This message was edited Apr 19, 2006 1:04 AM

Hey Baa, if your listing clearly states the currency in which one is to tender payment (and I'm sure it does), why don't you e-mail these ding dongs and politely advise them you received a remittance in the wrong currency and that you have already declined their PayPal or sent their remittance check back to them as you are sure it was merely an oversight on their behalf given the listing states the payment was to have been tendered in British £ not US $. Take a digital photo of the money order sent to you before you send it back and save it somewhere on your hard drive. The only thing I can think of that might put an end to people being lazy is that if you ask all those who chose to remit a payment in a currency other that the British £ to please add the bank charges of 45£ to cover your expenses for conversion and do this right in your listing. Bet that might make them click the proper currency box when they tender their payment via PayPal and if they are going to their bank for a money order... I bet they remember to ask for a money order in the proper currency. How hard is it for people to get money orders in the proper currency. Banks can do this and credit cards convert automatically.

Ooops, gee shucks. I forgot. Some buyers are pigs and they are too cheap to pay to get a money order in the proper currency. They want sellers to cover those costs. Baa, I don't think those buyers are that stupid. I suspect they are tendering payment in the wrong currency intentionally to get you to eat the costs of conversion. Leave negative feedback for them. Something simple like, "Payment not received in currency dictated by listing, buyer notified".

I think I need to re-read some of these posts in this thread.

Thanks Equilibrium! I have in my rules that I reserve the right to refuse any incorrect payment as well as clearly stating what I accept on the aution itself which has calmed it down somewhat. I still get UK buyers wanting to pay by postal orders though, they are great because it's an instant payment or they would be if the Post Office didn't do their level best not to honour them. I've lost count of the chow rows I've had with the cashiers over them LOL.

I now restrict myself mostly to eBay UK, it costs half a fortune in insurance otherwise!

Butterfly,

I've had a pretty good experience with eBay overall. I've given negative feedback on two sellers but then retracted both as well. I gave positive feedback to one seller and wish I had waited because I see no way to change it after you give it. I did tell this seller all the leaves had fallen off one of the plants I got from her. She acted surprised. Naturally the plant died within a month or less. The other plant took a few more months to croak. With plants, it is tricky. Was it the buyer's fault or was the plant doomed from the start? I basically said I would not order from this seller again but I wonder how many other buyers are unhappy as well but have already given positive feedback?

My sister got some old dishes from overseas but when they came in they were all broken. She contacted the seller about the damage and the seller said they were all in one piece when she shipped them so it wasn't her responsibility after they left her place. Let the buyer beware!

My newest experience is waiting on a plant that was bought at the start of Mar. and I'm still waiting on it. I asked the seller what is going on and they referred me back to the item which way down near the bottom it did say shipping would start April 1st. So I sent another question Apr. 12th about where is it and never got anything back. So I'm still waiting. Do you think this is an example of a disgruntled customer or an unscrupulous seller?

The seller could ward off some of these ill feelings by being upfront and tell the customers as soon as possible that their supply is behind or whatever instead of waiting for angry customers demanding to know where their purchases are. Most customers will understand when the seller is communicative instead of feeling like they are being "blown off" when they get lame or legitimate excuses after they take the initiative to inquire.

I personally don't think you can hold a seller responsible for dishes broken during shipping. Was insurance purchased? If so, then the shipping company should be notified for a refund. The seller probably did ship the dishes whole. She did her part. I know it's awful, but that is why purchasing insurance is important, especially for delicate breakables. Do you have any idea how rough package handlers are? You can write fragile all over the box and they'll still toss it around.

With plants, the post office will insure them, but then they won't honor the insurance because they're perishable items.

I personally don't guarantee my plants after 7 days. Why? Because I can't be responsible for what a person does to the plant once they get it. Maybe they let it sit in the box for a week before deciding to plant it. Maybe they stick it in the ground and then don't water it til it's established. Maybe they have absolutely no idea what they're doing and put a shade lover in full sun. If I send the plant out and it's healthy leaving here, I expect the buyer to contact me within 7 days if it arrives unhealthy.

Plants do shock, but most often they will come out of it. I quit selling passifloras because they shock so badly and it may take 6 weeks for them to recover and come back to life. I had lots of disgruntled customers who received replacement plants. Then later they said, "Oh the first one you sent is now coming to life." But they didn't offer to then pay for the second one.

One buyer recently contacted me saying the cannas she got from me last year didn't survive her winter and would I replace them. No. If they grew fine until winter, I'm not responsible for their not being hardy through her winter.

Another buyer recently told me that she would leave positive feedback for me WHEN the seeds she got germinates. So I'm assuming if they don't germinate, due to her lack of experience or care, then I'll get a negative. That's not fair either.

Send another email to the buyer. Like I said before, spam controls often toss emails into the spam folder. I even find friends' emails in my spam folder occasionally. So sometimes the same person's emails are in my inbox and sometimes they're in the spam box. If you'll email your buyer thru Ebay's services, you may get an answer.

Also remember that it's not spring everywhere. So some plant sellers just cannot get out and dig right now. They also have lives and crises may come up (a child in the hospital or something). Have patience. I try to mail within a week of payment, but due to health problems, sometimes it takes longer than that.

Baa, I sure wish you lived in the states. I just know you have some rare and unusual plants I "need". LOL

That's why I don't buy from poor growers (big mail order places and eBay alike) - once burned shame on you, twice burned shame on me. When seller A can deliver a big healthy plant and seller B sends a scrawny sickly plant, then you swear never to buy from seller B again even though you've already given positive feedback. OH well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Dishes/breakables should be packed to prevent breakage - a piece of flimsy cardboard isn't going to cut it. I know packages are mishandled all the time but most come through the mail just fine which leaves me to believe the packing should be done to a reasonable standard (what most people consider reasonable at least). Insurance is a long drawn out process to try to collect and leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. I always forgo insurance unless it's a costly item. I'd rather be out a few bucks than pay insurance which is usually not needed. What's bad is when a piece of a set is broken and you try to collect insurance for the whole set - ain't gonna happen. You might get a fraction of what you paid for the set but if you try to buy the piece that got broken then you find out the only way the store sells it is as a set. The only way to replace one piece is find somebody who has the same set and is willing to sell it in pieces.

Life is full of surprises - some good, some not so good. Let's just hope for most of them to be good.

hcmcdole--You can always leave followup feedback or you can leave neutral feedback. I still have a deal I did in February just hanging there because the seller keeps claiming health problems. I left the following positive feedback for her to give her the benefit of the doubt: "Healthy plant, smaller than I expected, but seller willing to correct problem." If she doesn't follow through, I will leave feedback saying that she did not follow through as promised, but not until I've given her all the time/space I can honestly do.

BC--You better believe I followup on good deals as well as bad. I send an email when the item arrives and leave good feedback that same day. If the item is not so good, I email them as well, give the seller time to decide what they want to do on their end. I bend over backwards to make my part of the deal as smooth as possible. One time three years ago I left bad feedback because the guy sent a dead shipment to replace the first dead shipment. He hit the top of the scale on nastiness as thanks. It's not something I take lightly. There is always a way to word your responses so as not to make an enemy, but too many people just jump. That's why the feedback system is worth reading before you buy. Little green marks don't always mean good transactions.

I still believe that the followup feedback system could be used if I falter somewhere as a buyer, but if I have paid immediately that should be noted. Sellers used to leave quick feedback in that case, but they've been burned too many times, so now most sellers don't do anything until you as the buyer say all the right things, and I still think that's not fair.

Finally here is what I got yesterday after waiting 6 weeks. I paid nearly $12 for this?

Thank you for posting Butch what you received. That person should be ashame of themselves for sending that. Word of mouth will kill a seller in a heartbeat. I know I wouldn't want to buy from them. Hint hint who was it Butch? I don't like it when people sell their plants knowing they have infestation.

I always pay with Paypal ,but I think I may check with paying with Visa. Is there a charge paying with Visa with your bank does anyone know?

Patti



This message was edited Apr 20, 2006 8:06 AM

I wonder what is going on with the pictures?

The name of the seller is on the name tag in the picture if the picture presents itself again. I don't think I'm the only one ripped by this seller talking to some other folks around the country. Of course he has nearly 100% positive rating. What a sham! Anyway it wasn't an infestation on the plant - but rather the little plug with two leaves stuck in a 3 inch pot and sent on. When I pulled it out of the box the plant fell out of the pot (probably those darned postal workers caused all of this). I should be thankful it has two green leaves, right?

Here it is out of the pot. Hope the first picture shows up again.

The first picture again. Don't know what is going on with this site.

I’ve read this thread again. In good conscience, I can’t agree that eBay’s feedback system was designed for such things as honest comments. I believe their system is downright obstructive and incredibly misleading. Ebay appears to be well aware of the limitations and I’d even go so far as to state that their system is inferior by design. It’s a shame eBay refuses to level the playing field as it is currently weighted heavily toward sellers unless a buyer is very organized and makes time to create paper trails. There will never be a means by which to deal with all the “head cases” out there but they could take steps to encourage honest comments.

I hate to be so blunt but would somebody out there help me understand why it is that a buyer, who has fulfilled their end of the contractual obligation by tendering payment in good faith has to wait to get their feedback until the seller knows if the buyer is happy with what they received? This defies logic. I don’t see buyers being allowed to withhold payment until they receive the item to see if it is as described in the listing. If the item was packaged properly and if it was shipped in a timely fashion and if it was as described in the listing; there should be no concerns. Sorry, the seller should leave feedback for the buyer first and it shouldn't hinge upon the buyer's satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the goods. The transaction may not be complete until the seller fulfills his/her contractual obligation to the buyer but the buyer will have fulfilled their contractual obligation when they paid and deserves their feedback at that time. In the event of a ding dong like the buyer with the wrong size mailbox, there is a means by which a seller can respond to those comments. Why should all buyers be punished when some sellers hold feedback over their heads for the 1% of bad eggs out there?

I feel comfortable admitting this- I save a copy of every listing that I am high bidder on to my hard drive. eBay stores all changes to listings but it’s a lot easier if you can produce the listing without waiting for them to pull it up. I do now look at where sellers are registered. I don’t bid on items out of the Country any longer as I would have little or no recourse if issues ever arose. eBay’s Safe Harbor isn’t all that safe in my humble opinion. I now read a seller’s feedback as I learned that positives can be covert negatives. Lastly, I look at when sellers leave feedback for their buyers. Surprisingly, quite a few leave it for the buyer before the buyer leaves it for them. I bid with confidence when I see feedback being left by sellers for items before it is left for them.

Feedback is never going to be honest unless both sellers and buyers have dotted all their i’s and crossed all their t’s. I can guarantee that I would have no qualms what so ever leaving negative feedback if a seller breached their contractual obligation to me. I did it once before and I’d do it again in a hearbeat. My negative feedback was short and factual with no personal attacks and to this day it stands in that seller’s profile. I would not worry at all about retaliatory feedback left for me because I always have a papertrail. Always. Negative retaliatory feedback can and has been removed by eBay. It appears one must be in a position to provide documentation that the negative was retaliatory. Can we say libel? One thing to leave a negative feedback if one has the papertrail to back it up. Not wise to leave negative feedback if one doesn’t have the papertrail to back it up and one never knows these days who is dotting all their i’s and crossing all their t’s. I doubt seriously if eBay wants anyone coming after them for allowing libelous feedback to stand. They would have us believe they are not responsible for the comments left for us by others but my interpretation is that they are most certainly responsible and evidently I may be correct because when I stated that comments left for me were libelous because they were false, malicious, inflammatory, and intended to defame my character and after I documented same… eBay removed them.

I don’t mean to sound like I’m hardened but sellers are not my personal friends and I don’t want to hear their tales of woe. I have no need to know that their dog got hit by a car and had to have its leg amputated OR that their appointment for kidney dialysis was changed to the day they meant to go to the PO to ship my item OR that they had run out of the white ceramic pots and thought it would be ok to send me yellow ceramic pots OR that their kid was home sick with the flu for 2 weeks so they couldn’t ship my lot OR that they ran out of packing materials and didn’t get a chance to get to the store to pick more up OR they just learned that their good friend was diagnosed with cancer OR they forgot they were going on vacation with their husband so they need to ship it to me next month or or or… I’ve heard it all. These were actual excuses given to me by sellers. All of these issues were cleared up privately and did not result in negative feedback being left but I did get my lots… other than the white ceramic pots and I received a full refund on those as well as the cost to ship the yellow ones back to her.

Feedback is a nonsense full stop. You can pay to have bad feedback removed or you can buy a programme that creates feedback for you or you can get a bunch of shill bidders to help you out. I do use feedback to check out a seller or buyer but it's by no means the only place, I try to get a feel for the person too from their listing, how well they know their product, how long they have been on eBay etc.

I believe a lot of the things wrong with eBay is due to eBay itself, including the feedback system. I do feel it would be nice for both buyer and seller to give feeback in private and then have a kind of approval button and a number list to show how many feedbacks are unapproved. This like all the other systems will never be satisfactory until the buyers and sellers are 100% honest. Then again I don't like reading a lot of the negatives anyway, much of it sounds like my old school playground with name calling, and it then makes me wonder who was really at fault in that instance.

I agree the buyer protections are a joke but then eBay is no exception to this, it's only bona fide businesses that have a strict set of rules to adhere to, buy from a business and you have a slightly better chance of comeback if things go wrong.

I also agree that in business circumstances the buyer needn't give two hoots as to what goes on in sellers private lives. If I'm unable to fufill my orders, someone else has to do it for me or I ask them to send messages ASAP to apologise for a slight delay if it's only going to be a couple of days.

Trouble is eBay is not only for businesses, sellers often don't rely on retail as their main source of income and this is where a lot of the "seller woes" come into play and a basic lack of understanding that prompt, concise communication at all times (and postage insurance) is key to a good relationship for that short times when we become buyers and sellers.

eBay is really the place to put the pressure not the handful of sellers on this thread who, even if I say so myself *G*, are often conscientious and indeed run at least part of their business through eBay.

I didn't know you could pay to have it removed- most disturbing. I also didn't know you could by a program to creat feedback- even more disturbing. What is a shill bidder?
I had other thoughts of how they could correct it and have shared same with eBay's reps on numerous occassions however your suggestion not only makes sense... it would be considerably more equitable than what they currently have.

If any of you saw some of the e-mails I have received from sellers, you'd be shocked. Quite a few are most definitely holding feedback as ransom until they see what kind of feedback I leave. I am real up front about feedback. At the time I pay, I let sellers know that I would appreciate it if they would take a moment to please leave feedback for me whenever they feel comfortable doing so and that I will return the favor of leaving feedback for them. It is the seller’s choice to leave feedback for me or not. I pay very fast if I am the high bidder. When using a US Postal Money Order, I send the payment registered mail. Yup, they have to sign for it and I gladly pay the extra expense so I know payment was received by them and I know when. If I am paying via PayPal, I pay generally within a few hours of the end of auction and I can see exactly when they received payment. I am very responsible in getting sellers paid off so they don’t have to beg for what is rightfully due them. I am also very responsible about clearing up details before I place a bid. Bidders should respect Sellers by asking any and all questions they may have about a lot before they bid and it would help if buyers would take the time to read a listing in its entirety. I am very specific about asking questions before I bid. First question I ask is if they would be able to communicate with me via standard e-mail as opposed to the eBay messaging system. Yup, I want to be able to certify all electronic correspondences between me and the seller. You’d be surprised how many sellers have claimed they have not received an e-mail when I am sitting on a silent certified delivery receipt that tells me that not only did they receive it but when they opened it. I generally ask them to please look again just to be sure they didn’t overlook it. If a seller still tries to claim they did not receive an e-mail from me, I forward a copy of the certified delivery receipt to them and cc it to eBay and I can guarantee that gets a response that generally includes an excuse that they were on a shared computer and their teenager or spouse must have opened it up and accidentally deleted it. My response is always to give the seller the benefit of the doubt and move on. Second question I ask is that if I am the high bidder would the seller have any issues with sending my purchase out to me within 10 days of receipt of payment and if they would have any issues purchasing insurance as well as providing me with the USPS Priority delivery confirmation number once they send it out. I let them know that I am more than willing to compensate them for the cost of Priority and insurance as well as the fifty cents for the delivery confirmation number providing they ship my package within 10 days of receiving payment and forward the delivery confirmation number to me via regular e-mail. Fifty cents is a small price for me to pay to be in a position to track my purchase as well as whether the seller sends it out within the agreed timeframe. Obviously, if a seller has stated the lot won’t be shipped until a future date, I don’t bid because I want to close out the transaction within 30 days and truly don’t see any reason why a seller would offer an item that isn’t currently available- that to me would be a red flag. Anyway, if a seller does not agree to send my purchase out within 10 days as well as to provide me with the delivery confirmation #, I don’t bid on their lot. It’s as simple as that. I don’t make sellers beg for their money and I won’t allow myself to be stuck in a position where I have no recourse and am forced to beg to get what ever I was high bidder on. I also let sellers know that I will contact them as soon as I receive the lot to let them know that I have it. I always follow up and let them know I received it and make it a point to thank them for sending an item exactly as described in their listing or great packaging or whatever I can type to let them know I am pleased. Lending closure to a transaction within a reasonable time frame is paramount in my opinion and it takes two. As far as I am concerned, even if a transaction has bumps... if it is able to be resolved the seller deserves a positive. Life is full of bumps in the road and everybody makes mistakes. We buyers shouldn't judge sellers by the mistakes they make but by how they correct them.

Quote
We buyers shouldn't judge sellers by the mistakes they make but by how they correct them.

I purchased a book off of ebay , and the seller said to expect it in no more than ten days. Well it never showed up. He lives in Texas too. I contacted the seller , and he offered full refund. I told him to wait and let see if it is lost in the mail. In the meantime I went and purchased the book at a book store , because I had to have it for my daughter class. A month later the book showed up. It had the orginal stamp date . It was lost in the mail. I contacted the seller and told him what had happen. I told him I will keep the book and donate it to the school. I gave this guy a excellent feedback . He has great communications , and was willing to make this transaction right.

A shill bidder is someone who is there to act as an enthusiastic customer to create more bids or bump up the price or to act to close out the auctions on really high bids so a false price is created for the next auctions of the same time. These people are known to the seller and are often paid or even the seller themselves, they don't pay for the auction. Shills are found in other places too like Casinos (to make it look like the game is more popular than it is.

Shill bidding is often illegal, I know it is in the UK although sometimes it's only done just to get a few people looking, the shills then drop out and allow the auction to develop naturally.

I think you have a good system going, at least you are prepared for the flack should it arrive!

Rose318, that's great example of two people willing to communicate!

Equilibrium, you state: "We buyers shouldn't judge sellers by the mistakes they make but by how they correct them."

Likewise, as Baa and I both stated, some of us sellers rate buyers not only on their ability to pay quickly (how hard is that? You should be ready to pay if you bid), but how they handle any problems that may arise. The buyer's obligation to pay is not her only obligation in the transaction. Her courtesy, patience, and understanding should a problem arise is even more important than her ability to pay, as far as I'm concerned.

If you're sure, as a buyer, that the seller couldn't have a problem with you, and you're satisfied with the product you received, what's wrong with you leaving feedback first? As far as I understand it, the only reason you wouldn't want to leave feedback first is if you intend to leave negative feedback and fear the seller will do the same. But isn't that what the seller fears too? No one wants their reputation ruined by some hothead.

Feedback isn't meant to be a cure-all, just like here at Daves. If you read my feedback here, it's excellent. However, there are traders I've had issues with. And even if they were to leave a negative, you still wouldn't have the full story. So don't rely on feedback. It's merely a tool that can be effective. It's not meant to be used as a tool of vengeance, as some buyers will use it for. It's just meant as a measuring tool, infallible though it may be.

If I see a seller with 100% rating and I have a problem with her, I don't jump to the conclusion that all those who rated her were lying. My expectations were just higher perhaps. Or perhaps she wasn't as alert when she was packing my box. I try not ruin someone's reputation if they have a good one. Most people who have a problem WILL complain in feedback. So I tend to believe that people are pretty honest.

Some folks may just need to buy their stuff locally rather than shopping ebay. Ebay, like any other marketplace, has its scammers, its poor quality sellers, and its fantastic sellers. It's a gamble. And let's remember too that it's not only the bad sellers that give ebay a bad name, but also the bad buyers.

I certainly don't jump to the conclusion that all those who left feedback for a seller with 100% positive feedback were lying. That would be a gross over generalization. I do take into consideration the inherent defects in the feedback system.

To each transaction is brought the differing styles of individual buyers and sellers. Although your style may work well for you butterflychaser, I feel mine works well for me. I firmly believe the seller should leave feedback for the buyer first. If they don't leave it first, then I don't.

I don't know if you realize this but behavior of the buyer after they have fulfilled their contractual obligation shouldn't enter the equation. There will always be those few head cases that fly off the handle. I do not agree that a buyer's "courtesy, patience, and understanding should a problem arise" should be more important than the buyer's ability to pay. The vast majority of people will conduct themselves appropriately. We don't have to like the people with whom we are dealing because the contract didn't say anything about either the seller or the buyer being "nice". The contract states the buyer pays and the seller delivers an item consistent with the listing.

This will be a gross over simplification for US residents however most contracts, exclude those that are unilateral or collateral, will have offer AND acceptance AND consideration. Assuming both parties are competent adults and assuming the goods are legal, the contract becomes binding when payment (consideration) is tendered. The offer was made when an item was listed on eBay. The acceptance of the offer would be the high bid. These deals on eBay are legally binding contracts the moment the buyer tenders payment. It’s not as if any one out there forces someone to list an item and it isn’t as if anyone out there is forcing someone to bid. Now, it appears most of these deals go south because payment is not received by the high bidder or as a result of contractual breach on behalf of the seller. Remember; if the seller doesn’t receive payment… they’ve still got the item. Being able to hang on to the lot until at such time as payment is received is the seller’s built in “remedy”. What “remedy” is there for the buyer when they bid and tender payment in good faith only to not receive goods or to have received them in a condition inconsistent with the original listing? eBay’s Safe Harbor? Backing up a little bit, any seller who offers dishes without stating that insurance will be required needs their head examined and any buyer who bids on dishes without purchasing insurance needs to realize that good packing can not overcome the abuses these packages are subjected to once they leave the seller. Collecting on insurance may be a long drawn out process but the two times I had to do it, I got my money by providing digital photographs of the outside of the box as well as the condition of the contents contained therein and I most certainly did not leave bad feedback for those two sellers because those boxes were manhandled. Oh wouldn’t it be wonderful if employees of postal services handled every box as if it was their own grandmother’s china and if no shipments were ever lost. I took a visit with Cub Scouts to the Main Post Office and was aghast. We’re talking retakes of the Samsonite Luggage commercials complete with Gorillas banging boxes into walls and tossing them around while swinging on vines. These postal workers are victims of a tremendous volume of boxes that come through and they’ve got to keep the line moving. They may want to treat every box as if it is their own grandmother’s china but there is no way that is humanly possible. Common sense. Something a small percentage of sellers and buyers are lacking. Oh what a wonderful world it would be if the lot bid on was always packed properly and received in a timely fashion and received exactly as described in the listing. Oh what a wonderful world it would be if buyers paid in a timely fashion and included insurance and didn’t expect or demand more than that which was listed in the listing. Communication between buyer and seller is critical mass. So many issues are cleared up by communicating properly before that bid is placed. I can honestly say that 100% of my transactions on eBay are now positive. I’m not going to say they always were because I resent the time element associated with that transaction that went south where I left the negative… but for the most part, I’ve covered my bases well enough that there is no need to ever leave negative feedback by gently reminding the seller of their contractual obligations to me.

Equilibrium, approximately how many sales have you made on Ebay? And how many times have your dealt with hotheaded, never pleased buyers?

If you owned a nursery and a customer came in to exchange a dead plant, let's say the customer was really nice, eager to try again, admits it might have been his own fault, and is really delighted that you'll give him another plant to try. Your overall opinion (feedback) of the customer is, not only does he pay promptly (when he bought the original plant), but he is friendly and easy to get along with. Right?

Suppose Customer 2 comes in with a dead plant, ranting and raving and cussing you out for selling something that is too difficult for him to grow. Suppose he demands both a refund AND a new plant because of the total inconvenience the dead plant has caused him. And then he starts mouthing about how he'd never do business with you again and will run around town slandering your reputation.

Your overall opinion (feedback) of Customer 2 is yes, he paid promptly the first time but he's completely impossible to deal with, you never wanna see him again, and you'd like to warn others to steer clear of him, wouldn't you? So does it really matter that he paid promptly? No, he's a complete jerk and probably gets everything he wants for free by scamming people with his tirades.

So if this was a guy you were dealing with on Ebay, wouldn't you like to warn others? So really, do you think feedback should just be about whether or not someone pays? I don't and I rate accordingly. My feedback often says something like "Great Ebayer, pays promptly, easy to get along with, highly recommend." It's honest and it rates the entire transaction. If a problem arises, I state in my feedback how the customer handled the problem. Others want to know if the person is friendly and easy to work with or if he's a jerk.

A friend of mine had a customer who kept coming back to buy her exotic tropicals. She was a bit pricey but she had some great plants. Since I was the recipient of many of them, I know she packages well and sends nice sized plants. This one customer would buy a plant, two weeks later claim it was dead and wanted a replacement. Every plant she sold him, she replaced to keep her great feedback rating. And he kept coming back. She eventually just quit selling on ebay altogether. She couldn't afford to keep sending him 2 for 1 specials. Why did he keep going back to her if all her plants died? Because they didn't die, he just wanted freebies. And he was able to "blackmail" her with the threat of negative feedback.

So in this example, is it important that he paid? No. He was a scam artist. Wouldn't you want that reflected in his feedback rating?

Can you block these sellers from buying from you?
Patti

KathyAnn, I'm sorry we're hogging your thread. We should have started our own post on this subject. I'll move on now. I doubt I'll change anyone's mind. But at least I've given food for thought. My mind is also set, after years of ebaying and encountering all sorts of people. So I'll butt out of your thread now.


So KathyAnn, did you give up on your buyer, or did she refund your money?

The point is not how many sales I've made as that was only a few but how many transactions I've entered into since 2001. That would be around 500 possibly more. You yourself stated that less than 1% were trouble. I would say based on the number of transactions that I have that the number for me would be less than 1%.

Me personally, I'm not in the nursery industry and we were discussing eBay transactions here in this thread not retail nursery purchases but... what would I suggest as a fellow DG member who has absolutely no retail experience what so ever... I'd suggest that a nursery provide a receipt that states exchanges happily given providing the original plant is returned within 90 days of original purchase. I'd instruct every employee to go over the return policy and request that he/she initial the receipt and keep a copy of it. That's just me. None of this one year return policy garbage because a lot can happen in a year. 90 days is ample time for a plant to fail for both customer 1 and 2 in your example above. Regarding Customer #2, he seems a little abusive to me given in your example he has stated, "he'd never do business with you again and will run around town slandering your reputation". I would lean over and softly whisper to him that I am afraid he might be embarrassing himself and that if he would like to discuss his concerns rationally and in an adult fashion that I would be more than happy to do so. If he did this to one of my employees, I'd would do the same as above only add that my employees are not paid enought to take that kind of abuse and that if it continues I will be left with no recourse other than to take appropriate action. I could care less what one person claims he will do as there will have been an audience to bear witness to his threats and given most customers are quite pleased with their purchases and don't like to see women being verbally abused... my bet is that every individual who was witness to that little scene would give you their name and number. People who behave like that aren't "acting" out for the first time at a nursery and are probably in need of some nice lithium or prozak. People who might be unfortunate enough to have to listen to him will probably consider the source and additionally there does exist action that can be taken for slanderous statements that would make that individual very sorry he behaved so poorly in your nursery. The other issue would be the 90 days, after 90 days- no dice. He can create as much of a scene as he feels the need to create but the bottom line is that he came to you to purchase a plant and we're not talking sight unseen as in an eBay transaction. Common sense dictates that people don't purchase plants they deem to be unhealthy or failing to thrive and I wouldn't hesitate to advise a guy such as #2 that it is most evident he is not meeting the plants cultural requirements and that I'd be more than happy to come out for a site visit to help him determine what is at the root of the issues if he would just calm down and discuss the situation rationally. For the 1% of the people like customer #2, a site visit might go a long way to promotoing a life long relationship.

Regarding your friend on eBay, what a shame. My thoughts on this would be that in the listing I would let it be known that exchanges happily given providing the original plant is returned within 10 days of receipt of the plant at the expense of the high bidder and I'd type, "Sorry no exceptions, the plant must be returned within the time frame stipulated". Hate to play hard ball but we're dealing with an electronic transaction and no way would I want to be victimized by someone who knows how to beat the system. These people are going to fall into that 1% category and if a seller has already left feedback, they can follow up with an appropriate reply.

Perhaps the following says a little better what my thoughts are on this entire situation of eBay feedback as I would have no problems what so ever being a butterflychaser buyer as it appears she bends over backwards to make even ingrates happy-