PlantFiles Suggestion

I would love to see PlantFiles set up a section somewhat like wikipedia where there are clear, concise care instructions, propagation techniques, plant history, do’s & don’ts, etc. that are edited and refined over time by members. In other words, PlantFiles would have an encyclopedic reference like Sunset’s Western Garden Guide (except much better).

The current data is an excellent resource for finding and identifying plants and even getting some general guidelines, but it can be quite hard to find in-depth care instructions. Some entries have dozens of user comments that relate more to the user’s opinion of the plant rather than how best to care for and grow it. It can take quite a bit of time to wade through all the comments to pick out the general care & propagation techniques.

Additionally, if this editable reference entry were to be adopted, I would like to see it done only for the Genus or a general group within a Genus rather than for every variety. It would seem a waist of time and very redundant to have care instructions for every Tall Bearded Iris for example.

I also would like to see a link to species specific cultivars from within the species. It could be an alphabetical one-line link to the cultivar. This would be much easier than looking through a bunch of separate finds for the species.

Whew! I hope I didn't confuse anyone. What do you think?

I heartily agree about the propagation and germination info. I'd also like to see a good description with each plant. These things can be included in comments, but they tend to get lost in all the other comments. The multiple choice options really don't give enough information. I'd settle for a germination code, I suppose.

Ditto! I find myself going from plant files to my books for more information on propagation, germination, seed colelcting, etc. I also like the idea of being able to select a Genus, then species, etc via a filtered interface!

Stacy

This is a very good idea.

I'm planning a very massive rewrite of PlantFiles sometimes this year to bring the technology up to date with 2006 web development methods (read: ajax). Part of the redesign will be to incorporate new features that allow people to put in content that doesn't really have a place right now.

Dave

Great idea. I can't wait for the new features. :)

Sounds great, Dave. As it is now, I move between the Plantfiles, Tom Clothier, and nursery websites to get information. In Plantfiles, I get the height, width and zoning... sometimes a description. I get the germination requirements at the Clothier site. If the Plantfiles don't have a description in the comment section, I look for an online seed or nursery website for that. It would be nice to do it all inhouse!

I can hardly wait! It will be wonderful to have one place to stop for all of the information that we need. Most of it has probably already turned up in various threads anyway. This would be an excellent way to utilize the combined wisdom of our DG'ers.

I would like to see more photos of the seeds in the PF, or somewhere else on DG. I've posted several photos, but could be doing more. It just requires photographing the seeds when I am ready to plant them, but I haven't taken the time to do it.

How about posting seedling pics, Weez? I'm notorious for losing my labels, and have to try to figure out which seedling looks like what. Granted, it might help if I was better organized, but the unfortunate truth is that I'm not :)

And where to collect the seeds from too, please! Some of those are really hard to find.

I'd also like to know when plants are suitable for containters. What type of form it grows in: mounding, spiky, or trailing for examples. Is it a heavy feeder? Can I overwinter it? How? Does it need to be deadheaded to rebloom?

If it is a houseplant, which window does it do best in? Does it like a roomy pot or does it like to be rootbound?

Another section for special tips or tricks would be nice too.

mg

Poor Dave have we really put him on the spot. We should do this but pay for a site like this because the data to start this would be huge. Why not have a special access to those who want to dig deep and do the research for the interest they have. Ok Dave now you can think about it and design it first class. With 200,000 members and 2 to 10% contributing to this that should be a possibility.

Suitable for containers is one of the options on Plantfiles, as I recall. However propagation and plant description are more general. Stratification requirements, etc. are not available. The requirements for plant research are quite different if you've just purchased it at a nursery than if you are planning to start it from seed. Any of us can post this information in comments, but it gets lost with every new posting. In many of the entries, Baa has posted a general description of a plant, its native origin, and where it grows best, etc. I'd like to see such those as the first post for all the plants, but that's a monumental job.

You know, I began taking photos of seed but sort of felt that it was inappropriate to add them to the PlantFiles so I deleted my images... all but some oak acorn images. I do not know why I thought that way. Guess I won't delete seed images any longer. I truly didn't think anyone was interested. I'm posting the last photo of some oak acorns I took that I was forwarding to a friend in an e-mail and I darn near deleted the photo until I read this thread. I guess my question is, do Admins as well as members want plant seed photos added to the PlantFiles?

A revamp of the PlantFiles? Sounds like the challenge of the century. I would like an area to denote native range of a plant if at all possible as well as a few other little additions here and there but then I suspect these are already in the works.

Seed photos are ALWAYS a welcome addition ;o)

Native ranges are not in the works as far as I can see. Since PlantFiles is international, trying to specify nativity (or provenance) is next-to-impossible.

If we did it at the continent level, that would be a manageable list of 6 or 7 (depending on who's counting) options to choose from - but it's not particularly useful information to anyone.

If we use geo-political (i.e., countries) boundaries to define ranges, then we suddenly have a long checklist (192 countries.)

And for large countries, even knowing it's native to the country is still far too general to be of benefit to the majority of gardeners living in that country. For example, a plant that's native to Florida is not necessarily native to even the adjacent states, let alone to the temperate zones further north.

If this were a North-American database, it would be possible (perhaps) to designate states and provinces ranges and specify native status. But we have far too many members (and active contributors to PlantFiles) who live outside NA to suddenly limit its scope to this continent alone.

The database could have check boxes for the continent and an additional text field that could be filled in with whatever description is needed to describe the specifics.

I guess that was partly what I wanted to suggest at the beginning of this post. I would like to see editable text fields for descriptions not just check boxes. Restricting options to a list restricts PlantFiles' full potential.

Check boxes with the continent would still allow people to search for Asian plants but then they could get a description of where in Asia these plants grow.

This same idea could be applied to propagation. There could be check boxes with general propagation techniques like hardwood cuttings, seeds, grafting, etc. This would allow for a quick search. But then there would be a text field that allows an in-depth description of how and when to do the cuttings that is specific to the species. Like Wikipedia, members would have the ability to make changes or add additional information as it becomes available, and to discuss the changes made.

I know I'm sounding like the world's biggest pessimist ;o)

Free-form text boxes are not as great as they sound. (We had them in an earlier version of PlantFiles, and moved away from them when we realized that people mis-used them - or misunderstood what they were designed for. Even when they're used properly, they're prone to spelling errors and discrepancies in abbreviations.

Those variables render the resulting information in such a box virtually unusable for any sort of cross-referencing or searching.

If the goal is to be able to select all plants native to your state or province, a free-form box isn't the answer.

Well Terry, you can kick me in the rear because I literally just deleted well over 150 images of seed. I might have not gotten to grass/sedge/rush seed to delete those but I think all I have left that wasn't deleted are 3 more images of Oak seed and two images of Ilex decidua seed uncleaned and cleaned. I added the Q. bicolor acorns to the PlantFiles. Oh I am soooooooooo sorry about the seed photos.

I think being able to denote the continent to which a plant is indigenous would be perfectly fine. A little check box for that would be very welcome. Anything more than that and people should really go to the forums for just the reasons Terry mentioned. I personally would not want to see these forums split out to North American with all others at a different area on the site. That would be depressing to me.

I like using the advanced search area of PlantFiles, when I'm trying to find just the right plant to go in certain places. I would love to see a growth rate section added, especially for tree's and shrubs. This would save me a lot of googling.
Alice

Regarding plant nativity. Even if noting a continent would be valuable to some of you, Europe, North Africa and Asia are attached so that would mean for many plants a box would be needed to select several options it would also not be able to take into account the fact that we cannot always be sure of a plants true nativity here due to long standing trade routes with each other. I don't really see the benefit of continent check boxes, it provides no great information and would be really quite fallible.

I'm also going to be unpopular over a one stop resource. I personally don't feel this is possible nor do I think it's a wise idea. An "Enquire Within Upon Gardening" is, IMHO, only possible when the work in progress becomes set in stone and then we fall behind the times.

Whatever the changes are going to be there is one thing that is certain, Dave may be a super computer whizz and an all round good egg but he, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, cannot tap his hat and magically produce all this information. The PlantFiles as it is today is what it is because of the contributing members, it is you that makes it a quality site and long may that continue.

I think we are a one stop resource... the "tailored" information to one's specific region and growing conditions just isn't confined exclusively to the PlantFiles and I really don't see how that could ever be possible with so many members growing under such varying conditions. I have found that I can post any question requesting specifics on any plant in any one of these forums and ten to one odds within about 24 hours I get enough information without having to drive to the library for a specific book that the library may or many not have on their shelves. I also no longer need to google endlessly which can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I am constantly floored at what some of these threads contain. Blows my mind what is contributed at times. Saves me tons of driving around too and I don't need to borrow books from friends or drive to the library hardly at all any more since I joined here.

What I would like to see is sticky note comments that give basic information such as place of origin, possible naturalization, description of habit and appearance, and any other information of interest. If this stays at the top of the comments, not the main body, it is still quite useful. Those who wish to have a comment stickied could apply to Admin. As I say, the comments Baa has made are always of great value to me. Propagation methods could be added to older entries as part of the stickied comment and added as a code to the newer entries in the main body option.

I would like to see a more developed search within DG. I find that I have to go to google very often to actually find the page on DG. Maybe I haven't learned to use the site properly - I'm not well educated on this kind of thing - but I'm sure a lot of other people like me will come to the site just with the common name of a plant to seach with, and many times the query will come up with no results. Also, because there are many people that build their gardens around butterflies, or hummingbirds, it would be really great if that bit of info on the plant page was a little more specific. One other thing I would like to add, hope I'm not being a bore, is that I get a lot of info from the comments down at the bottom of the plant info page. Many times, I've noticed that newbies post questions in that area, and don't get answers there. It would probably be a great service to everyone to post a link at the top of that area that would take people to the proper area to ask their question - and maybe a little suggestion for people posting in that area to keep their posts very concise and to the point as there are quiet a few 'ramblers' there lol, sorry if I am suggesting anything nievely. Thanks

ansonfan, good questions. Here's an attempt to answer them one-at-a-time.

You can enter just a common name in the first field of the main search page (see screenshot below for an example.) That search will take you to this page of results: http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=shasta+daisy&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Does that help, or are you looking for something else? (And have you tried the generalized search, which is linked to on the main search page, and again if your first results don't yield any matches.)



This one is harder to address, because so many people have so many different interests that influence how they use PlantFiles. We have many people who want to see us expand the toxicity information to be more precise about whether a plant is toxic to horses, cattle, dogs, cats, birds, or humans. Others want to see culinary and/or herbal uses for plants included. Still others want to see more information on how to use flowers in arrangements.

We've tried to make PlantFiles as comprehensive as reasonably possible, but we have to recognize we can't be every "special interest" reader's one-and-only resource for indepth information on their specific interest.



Many times, those questions come from non-subscribed members. A link to the forums isn't likely to stop them from posting their question wherever they find a way to do it. When you see rambling/off-topic comments, please scroll up to the "report an error" button, click on it, and give us the username of the comment that needs an editor's attention (and eraser ;o)

Thank you Terry, I understand what you are saying. I haven't tried using the generalized search for a plant, but again, I think thats what will happen to a lot of people when they are new to the sight. I stumbled over that for quite a while after I came here, and many times would have just loved one of the "did you mean....." things to pop up lol. I'm not dissatisfied in anyway with DG myself, as a matter of fact, its pretty much of a compulsion lol. I was just trying to make suggestions that I think would make it more user friendly to gardeners, especially the digitally challenged ones such as myself. Thanks again.
As a matter of fact, I have come to consider this place to be a free college education for myself, and I think that there probably are a lot of others who feel the same. I appreciate the obvious time and sacrifice it took to get this site as far as it has come, and I admire all of you very much.

This message was edited Mar 2, 2006 7:08 PM

I will second these comments which are some of the best I've seen in print. You have no idea how I minimize the screen, work on a file for work, pop up the DG screen, then post then minimize it, bring up another file, take a call, then post and all of this back and forth makes the day go so fast. I love it.

Equilibrium, I do the same thing. LOL

being dumb the general search is difficult to use if you know the plant latin name and species. I never know where to put the first name of the plant. IE Abies then where do you put the specific Abies species. I use these words cause in the animal area there are no need for family etc. There are many Latin gardeners here and some day I expect to get familar as I use the site. But it would be helpful to have a plant tag that we all know and describe Family Genus etc off that tag for an example to we dummies starting to talk in another tongue.

This message was edited Mar 2, 2006 7:03 PM

Hey neighbor! (close enough to be considered my neighbor anyway :)

Are you using the search area that comes up when you go into PlantFiles and then clicking on the tab that says 'click here to search for plants' ? If you are, then you get to a page where you can put in all the info you talked about, genus, species, cultivar name, etc.

However, if you read in the paragraph above that area, there's a hyperlink that says generalized search, and it will take you to a page that looks like what's in the link below. You can put anything in there and see what you get. You could just type in Brunnera and get lots of hits, or you can try to narrow it down and put in Brunnera macrophylla and maybe get more specific hits, or you can try to get right to the chase and put in Brunnera macrophylla 'Jack Frost' Or, if Jack Frost is all you know about the plant you are searching for, just type that in.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/search.php

You can also just fill in the information you know on the first search page and it will give you something. Lots of times I just put in the cultivar name and leave the rest blank.

Give it a try and see what you think.

This message was edited Mar 2, 2006 9:36 PM

I'll agree that this place is an education! Is Uber User equivalent to a Masters? Lauren - no comments re the "BS" lol

I use the standard search, but for people who don't know the difference between the genus and a species (of which I was one for a good chunk of my adult life), it can be daunting. When you go to the general search, for example, and put in "knockout rose", you end up with 71 pages of plants that aren't a knockout rose. It's in there, but you rally have to dig to find it. "Brunnera Jack" did bring up the Jack Frost, but also brought up a bunch of plants that had Jack in the name.

Stacy

"Is Uber User equivalent to a Masters?"

http://davesgarden.com/faq/home/#120
and
http://davesgarden.com/pf/hof.php

LOL Terry - yep, I know who they are. Great people. It was just me being punchy before I've had enough coffee.

Punchy? Before coffee? Never heard of such a phenomenon! (She says as she chugs down cuppa #3)

Thank you I never saw that and it is my style of search. Goooooodie Gooooodie. You are such master JoanJ I will always be in your debt. Huh? I get the same stuff on all the plant search pages all that dooo dooo on Family etc. I don't see a way to go to what you said. I'll keep trying. Dave must think because of all my genius posts that I am a Master at gardening and gives me the difficult to search plant path only. HAHA OK I found it when I click on search the page I describe comes up and then there is a generalized search tab. Thanks

This message was edited Mar 3, 2006 12:33 PM

This message was edited Mar 3, 2006 12:35 PM

Nah, I'm definitely not a master. I've only got the uber status because I'm a PlantFile addict. :)

I hope my explanation helped a bit. You will get lots of other plants searching that way, but sometimes I don't mind that either. I learn about lots of plants that I didn't even know existed until they pop up in a search list.

In order to get good results from searching by the common name, I think all the plants of the same variety need to have the same wording in the common name. If some Papaver somniferum are listed as 'Breadseed Poppy' and someone else lists them as 'Opium Poppy', not all will come up in a search.

That's a good point, weezin. I've tried to standardize entries when I come across multiple entries for the same plant (different varieties or cultivars.)

Hopefully when users come upon one entry they're interested in, they are learning to then search by the plant's botanical name which is the sure-fire way to gather up all other similar entries.

When I do a search and don't find an entry, but find it another way, I try to go back and discover the difference and report it so that we can get them all to show up under a search. The common name thing is a real problem, since there are so many different names for the same plant depending on regions, countries, etc.

I would also like an "other" catagory in Plant Files for photos like this or maybe a garden photography forum:
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/56123/

This image really doesn't tell me much about Sedum spectabile.

I rather like that photo. It certainly illustrates that the sedum is favored by butterflies, and it does include a closeup of the blossom. I also like seed photos, seedlings, even irregularities in growth. I feel we sometimes have far too many repetitive photos. I've used search to find a plant with the intention of adding and photo, only to find there is already another photo that is similar, and often better. Though bloom closeups are lovely and useful, those that clearly show the habit of the plant or the formation of the leaves are equally important. I also enjoy seeing how the plants look in the fall or spring.