Advice on planning a border?

I could go on and on about how great babies are and how excited I am for you but I think we just took over this thread, and I feel kinda bad...
D-mail me!
: )
Dena

Pirl, Congratulations!! He is beautiful!

Meg, can you grow them in your garden??

Thanks, Dave.

Oh Pirl!! Congrats!!! He is as cute as a button!!! Look at all that hair!! I remember when my sister was born, she had hair like that..my brother asked my mom if it had tickled!

Thanks, Anita. Between his sideburns and how alert he is I'm in love.

Umm, i haven't tried planting any cabbages yet, but if any babies sprout, i'll be sure to let you all know... ;)
Congratulations, Pirl...

I have a big huge h. macrophylla that someone planted long before i bought the house, and it looks great--let's hope i didn't just jinx myself--i've had two amazing seasons of huge blue mopheads on a gorgeous, 5' shrub...

speaking of shrubs, for that corner: debbie, i thought it over again, just for you and in deference to your exceeding knowledge and experience (no, i'm not joking!)--but i just can't do the quercifola thing. nor, i'm afraid, do i feel comfortable with the other ones you all mentioned. they're fantastic plants (tardiva, peegee, etc), but i'm not a fan of the panicles (i like rounded better, and i'm thinking of putting lots of spikey flowers), and my street--my block--is overrun by peegees in tree form. they're lovely, but i'm sick of them. "a-ha!" you all say, "if it works in the neighborhood, that's a good sign!"

i know, but i'm new enough at this to be silly and dreamy enough to want to do something different.

not that i'm going to go too far afield: how about a rhododendron? c'mon, you can't tell me that's not perfect for this region (new haven has thousands of them all over), and i think our soil must be at least a little acid (thank you, true blue hydrangea), but i'll get it tested, and feed it oak leaves and coffee, i promise... whaddaya think??? i'm thinking of "Jane Grant," from white flower farm...except it costs a painful **$35** (could it be worth it?)

al: thanks for the offer. i'm going cottage garden for the whole darn thing (24' x 12'), with a narrow maintenance path of crushed clam shells winding through. i'm actually drawing a plan currently (never mind that i have my exams in less than a month), so i'll scan it and post it when i finish. i would then love your comments, amendments, etc (that goes for all of you, not just al!).

Sure, rhodies would be perfect. Pay attention to how tall they will grow & how tall you want them. I've seen several people lose their house!
Good luck with exams. For all the wonderfullness that can go with college; I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that anymore!

thanks, dave; yeah, i think you have to be crazy to choose to go back for 6 more years of this kind of thing...

here's another two-part question: i want to put campanula 'cherry bells' in there somewhere, but i just read (thanks, plantfiles) that it can be invasive. it sure looks like it's worth it! i was actually thinking of putting it around the feet of the trellis between the two windows (see picture waaaaay back there...), but maybe something like calamintha with white flowers would be better there?

Meg, If you're thinking of a Rhodo, I'd pass on 'Jane Grant' for $35.00. Looked it up, nice Rhodo, but it's only a gallon pot and that could mean anything from 6-12" to 12-18" which would look rather pathetic in that corner for a couple of years. At most nurseries you could find a fully grown shrub for that money - heck I've seen them at Walmart and Lowes for less than $30. Sure, it wouldn't be a 'Jane Grant', but they have some acceptable cultivars that would probably suit you just fine :) As for the Campanula - NO!!! Invasive is a "nice" word for that plant! Yeah, it's pretty, but it's more suited for an out of the way spot where it can spread, spread, spread. We've planted a number of the punctata types and in what used to be a small spot on a bank next to the driveway, it's taken over the whole area and is coming up in the gravels of the driveway! If you're thinking of something like Calamintha, you could try one of the Nepetas (Catmint) http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=nepeta&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search&offset=0 instead. Make sure it is a cultivar of N. x faassenii though - these are the ones that have small leaves, and a really nice blue-green color. We've had this for a number of years, when in bloom it's gorgeous, but the foliage is still attractive even without blooms. There is also a white flowering cultivar if you're really set on just pinks and whites. Both the Calamintha and Nepeta would want as much sun as you can give them but it looks like the spot between the windows isn't affected too much by the shade from the tree, so either would probably work. Good luck on your exams!

Good thinking on the Rhodo; I'll see what I can find nearby. And thanks for the tip on the campanula! Phew! You don't know anything that looks kind of similar but behaves itself, do you?

I'm leaning toward just pink and white, which I think will look very pretty with the house, and will also lighten up a small area. What do you think?
Also, for my neighbors: any ideas about beaches around here that are particularly prolific in the clam shell department? That's what I want to make my paths out of.

And thanks, I need as much luck as I can get...

Meg - I know you didn't ask me but we live on Long Island and some places that deal in gravel or other driveway surfacing might have it. Maybe you could try the yellow pages up there or else a Google search for commercial crushed clam shells. As a last resort if you know of a restaurant that has it for their driveway you could ask them where they go to have it topped off when it needs it.

Meg, I can't think of any area beaches that are rich in shells. Years ago there was a restaurant in Guilford with a huge pile (the Chello Oyster House). But nowadays I'm afraid you'd have to buy them.
Dave

I found out where I can buy crushed shells, but it seems so silly to buy them around here! Ah, well, I'll see how far I get with collection (probably, like, 3 inches), and then I might have to break down and shell out the clams for it (ha ha, i am SO funny!).

I've almost got my plan completed--who knows how it'll pan out, but I'll put it up when I've got it.

Any advice on where to purchase a tall trellis for not hundreds of dollars?

"shell out the clams for it" - groan with a big smile.

Do you have Agway up there? See if you like any, take a photo and ask a local carpenter or, better yet, retired carpenter.

Meg, How are you?
In case you didn't know there is an Agway on Rte. 80 just past No Branford in Guilford.

For a trellis, Its tough to get a good deal. If Christmas Tree shop (Orange) has them they will be a good price. In that same plaza, there is an art supply store that usually has a bunch of garden stuff cheap but not always the best quality. I get supplies from Odd Lot (or is it Job Lot?) in Clinton, but they only seem to have really small trellises. I got my trellis at a regular nursey (Wilbur & King). Because it was damaged (easy to fix) I got it relatively cheap. Hope this helps.

Of course you should try the "tall trellis for not hundreds of dollars" forum ;)

Dave

Hangin' in there, thanks, Dave. Ask that question again after April 13 (exam day).

I'd love to build something myself, but I have no idea how, am not meticulous, and would probably nail my glove to the darn thing. Maybe I'll try anyway--at least that way (in theory) I'd get exactly what I wanted. Does Loew's have cedar wood? Otherwise, I'll check out Agway (thanks, pirl, for the tip, and Dave, for the location).

Dave: boy, there's a forum for everything here on DG, it seems! ;) Is there a "retired carpenters' directory in southern CT" forum??

Meg - if you have any gardening neighbors who belong to any local societies or clubs they might come up with a name for you.

I have my own DH, retired banker, who's built me many trellises of wood and a beauty in copper on his first try.

Getting exactly what you want is easier when you go through a book on trellises - Home Depot has some and so do the major book stores.

Okay, here's another garden design question (which i might also post as its own thread--i'm interested to see what you all think):

this theory of planting in groups of 3s and 5s--is that for real? I mean, does it really look much better than even numbers? Or what if, say, you have a small yard and would rather distribute plants throughout the space? is it gardening high crime to just plant one of something? What if I have 3 anemones, but put each one in its own spot, 8 or 10 feet away from another anemone? Is that enough harmony? or is it going to look like a scraggly mess?

Just to my way of thinking, planting in uneven numbers (and close together) gives that lush look that people seem to enjoy instead of having your eyes bouncing all over trying to take in too much.

If your idea is to allow the plants to all grow to specimen size then you can do one anemone here and another 10 feet away without a problem.

Some professionals say to repeat the exact same plant five times in different areas of the garden. It's not always possible given PH of soil, sunlight and irrigation systems. It's supposed to provide "continuity" but can sometimes give the impression (to me) that you bought en masse at a garage sale or super sale.

Two of a kind can work, beautifully, with one lush plant on each side of your front steps but in a garden it's more difficult within a garden.

One is fine. Over time I've come to appreciate small masses of the same plant.( more than when I was too cheap or too poor to group plants.)

When you do group them, an even number causes global warming. No, its less significant than that. I tend to follow the odd number rule, but I have come to believe that no gardening rule is absolute. You have to experiment.

I prefer an eclectic look - 3 here...2 there...a single specimen in that spot..etc

Dave - love your sense of humor!!!!!

It is a personal choice. Three of the same, in the same area, just gives a sort of instant look of lush. It's a lot easier (to me) to do it with annuals than perennials. I've had more of one of a kind from buying at the end of season than threes and fives. Multiples do work very well for ground covers: it just gets the job done faster when you're trying to cover bare ground.

Isn't that what's so nice about gardening: doing it your way? :-)

I agree. I figure I'm thinking long-term: the plants you buy from Bluestone usually come in groups of 3, but I'll put one here, 2 there or something, and in a few years I can divide them and make more drifts, right? Besides, since I'm going for "cottage-y," a kind of hodge-podge look makes more sense, it seems.

If my seedlings do what they're supposed to, I'll put massive drifts of annuals this year too. But can someone please tell me why it's not as easy as it sounds? I just sprinkled poppy seeds outside--let's hope some of the hundreds sprout. And I have seedlings starting inside, but right now they're all really tiny, just a little stem with two early leaves--they all look exactly the same (thank goodness I labeled)--do they actually, really turn into PLANTS at some point?!?

Yes - have a little faith in the seed. It really will happen! It's not easy to have patience - especially with seeds.

Please post photos when they're flowering!

Ok, but there goes another polar ice cap!

Meg, one of the things I noticed is that everyone talks and shows pictures of their successes but there is little talk of all the deaths we've left in the wake of our gardening. Maybe its just my particular talent, but I've spent a lot of money on plants that didn't make it.(Thank goodness for Bluestone's liberal replacement policy). But a thread on: "Seedlings that never made it to the garden" just doesn't draw posts.

Pirl, Thank you!

I think the failures cause us to sometimes try again..I ususally give it the 3 strikes and your out. Who knows, the first few tries might have been me or location.

When we love a plant we keep on trying. Anita is very fair - 3 strikes and you're out. The only thing that will get me to try again is another variety of the same species.

Some perennials have this obstinate streak - like a nasty, bitter person - and just when you give up and find a great replacement they come up and further destroy your well made plans. They have this comically evil way of taunting us!

Clematis can be instantly wonderful or lying low just waiting to surprise you after the sign is lost or faded.

Since I'm new at this, I'm reluctant to try something again if I've already killed one. I figure it's just not meant to grow here. But then again, precisely because I'm new at it, I'm more likely to kill stuff, and also to learn more and do a better job next time.
My big problem seems to be that the plants come back up, but as puny, scrawny, dwarf imitations of what I bought in a pot the year before. Soil nutrient deficiency, or the usual sleep-creep-leap phenomenon?? This is the creeping year, so we'll see, I guess...Any thoughts?

Overwatering kills more plants, stunts others, than anything else. Mostly it's the waiting game, unfortunately.

If gardening teaches me one thing, it will be patience... (I hope!)

Pirl - I don't like those low maintenance plants - too much work not to water or feed them ;)

Al - you simply have to have the best sense of humor here!

Meg, Are you seeing smaller versions of the plants in Spring or are the plants going backward for the whole year?
If its the latter, Pirl, can overwatering an outdoor plant actually get it to regress? I usually have a harder time getting a plant enough water through the hot summer in its first year.
Dave

Excess water depletes the soil of oxygen the roots need. As each section of the root dies you'll have less life support for each stem. It can gradually disappear. I've had a few of them.

We had an aster that looked horrible. Moved it and it still looked bad. Moved it the last time and it took over. I swear there are some spots (nutrients? PH?) that plants prefer and it's up to us to somehow figure it out.

Dave, you mean the syndrome of the mysterious shrinking plant? I haven't seen that yet! They just come up puny and stay puny (pulmonaria about 2 or 3in wide, polygonatum only 6in tall, etc). I've also killed a hellebore (thought it was impossible), a brunnera ($17! ouch!!), some other vine thingy, and one columbine (the other just stays puny). The only things that seem to be thriving back there are the lamium and the sweet woodruff. Maybe they're just taking over? It's also under trees, so the roots might be competing. I should probably dig the lamium and woodruff up, make a slightly raised bed, and start over back there.
That'll be for NEXT spring, though--one big project at a time! And then I'll start a new thread for that bed, eh?

pirl: thanks, I'll have to keep that in mind. I don't think I was overwatering, but then again, there's always a chance. I think you're right about the plants having "sweet spots"--how we're supposed to figure it out, I don't know!! Too bad they can't talk to us!

I agree about finding the right spot and having a plant take off. Indoor plants too.

Meg, What I meant is that a plant should not get smaller than it was when you bought it. I would think that is a problem and not "creeping".
Have you had a soil test done?
Tree roots are big competitors for water & nutrients. And lamium are very good with dealing with those conditions. I remember thinking my shade garden would need less water than the one in the sun. Many dollars later I learned my shade garden (under trees) needed more water.

Dave's right. We felt the same way and I had put a lot of the daylilies in a bed (100 x 12) toward the front of the 50 year old line of Colorado Spruce but we had to add another zone to our irrigation system just to get them growing.

This message was edited Jul 30, 2006 4:36 PM

So, how is the project going?

pirl - I accidently posted a reply to a similar thread in here and deleted it - just to fool you.
Haven't seen Meg lately.