This may have already been discussed at some time in this forum, or maybe it is covered in the general guidelines for trading, but I haven't seen or read anything about what to do when a trade doesn't go as expected.
My specific bad experience was shipping a box of mimosa seedlings for SASE (postage only -- total cost $6.60) and then having no response (I've sent a couple of follow up E-mails) from the person receiving the shipment.
Should I leave a negative feedback for the DGer that didn't respond and didn't pay? Does anyone bother to read "Feedback Left by Others" before making a trade with another DGer? (I don't.) Has anyone ever left negative feedback for another DGer as a result of a trade gone bad?
I learned my lesson from this experience and generally now ask for payment in advance for a postage only trade (unless I'm already familiar with the DGer seeking the SASE trade). I also get a receipt confirmation slip from the post office for all my trade shipments.
I won't let one bad experience and a relatively minor loss of money dissuade me from the fun of trading on DG, but it has made me somewhat wary of SASE (postage only) trades when a significant amount of postage is involved.
Your sharing of experiences and thoughts on this subject are welcome.
Jeremy
What to do when a trade goes badly?
Good Morning Jeremy,
Until you get to know your trader, it is always a good idea to collect postage up front. Generally nobody is ever offended by this method.
Since the feedback system here at Dave's was implemented, for trading, in general, when I am trading with someone who is new to me, I look at their feedback and go with my feelings there. If there is no feedback, I may choose to take a chance on a newby.
I realize that the feedback system was implemented for the benefit of this group as a whole and was not intended strictly as a mutual admiration society. That being said, I have never put in a bad feedback. Only had 3 trades not follow through. One disappeared, one suffered a hurricane or two, and one I can't remember.
I have to decide when is the "right" time to put in a negative feedback. How long to wait, what are the circumstances. etc. I also watch what the other person is up to......are they still trading? Are there good feedbacks coming through on them? So many factors to consider. If the person is using this site as a way to get plants to profit by, that information will make it's way to the forums and feedback.
Does this help at all? In the end, you must use your own best judgement. If you give a negative feedback and want to change it later, you can do that too.
Molly
:^)))
Jeremy,
Yes, Feedback is great. Make sure to give this person ample time to respond to your Dmails. I am not saying you haven't . We never know what is going on at their end illness, death,hurricane or even money problems. If you give a negative feedback make sure you comment why you gave it. I think you can also change it to a neutral later if you want too.
There are numerous wonderful plant traders out there. Don't give up on trading. If they want to SASE have them mail you the shipping first next time. Good luck.
Patti
This message was edited Feb 14, 2006 8:26 AM
Thanks for your comments. It is always good to know that I am not alone with my troubles (as minor as my problems may be in this case). I think it is good to open up communication and determine what is fair. It was last summer that I sent off the mimosa and I suppose I am especially aggravated because it was a very busy time for me, but the mimosa seedlings became available from a friend's yard, and I went to all the trouble of stopping all that I was doing, traveling across town to get the seedlings, boxing them up, getting to the post office, etc. etc. The person receiving the mimosas doesn't seem to have any further activity on DG (no threads started, no member comments, etc.)
So, "once burned, twice cautious," but I will continue to gleefully ship my "weeds" and prolific plants to anyone that wants them for SASE or trade.
Jeremy
Well, Jeremy, we are working on a possible trade and I am more than happy to send my postage or plants first - an honest trader would not have a problem with it. PLMK
I have left bad feedback for one person. It was a matter of a whole lot more than postage and a long time had passed. I was promised over and over and nothing came of it. Also I was not the only one that was taken.
Not one person should have a problem with you asking for shipping
up front for SASE. If they do I would say don't think twice about not
sending.
Blessings,
Sandy ^8^
edited to say I really hated to leave bad feedback, but did not think it was fair to others
who might trade with this person. I would also feel bad if it was done to someone else and I kept quiet. It was not easy to do but I decided it was necessary.
This message was edited Feb 14, 2006 7:43 PM
i recently posted a negative feedback. not because i wanted to character assassinate the person but because plant traders need to know if there is someone among us who is deliberately not following through. after i had sent my trade the person wrote back saying " this window of opportunity has expired as i have other committments_ _ happy gardening." and then no response. i was only out 5-6 dollars for postage. no big thing. but i am having fun when i am trading plants and i don't want anybody raining on my parade ON PURPOSE. i couldn't see this message as anything other than calculated dishonesty. if i had not received a message then i wouldn't have known but this was pretty obvious to me.
Been there had that happen, it amazes me how small minded some people are. They travel from forum to forum,under the guise of being a person you can trust.Take the cuttings or plants and run. I have never left feedback on here before, after several of these transactions, guess what?? Now I will if its negative.I also will start checking for negative feedback BEFORE any deals are done.Too bad a few unscrupulous people here have to ruin a good thing...oh and remember Karma..everything you do comes back to you...eventually...nuff soap box I'm thru. :-)
Had that happen twice here. One eventually came thru with postage and lots of excuses after several e-mails, and the other skipped never to be heard from again.. I did not leave negative feedback for either because maybe those excuses were real, but I guess the other deserves negative feedback since he sells on ebay, but cannot come back here to take care of business.
Karma..
I'm glad the topic of selling plants from trades was brought up. A friend of mine made the connection that someone was getting brug cuttings for postage and selling them on ebay (different user name, same address and same varieties requested). This did'nt seem quite right to me; sort of leaves a bad taste. What do any of you think? Kind of unethical?
Neal.
Neal,
This issue has come up before as well. There has been a trader or two who has traded to obtain plants for re-sale. It does leave a bad taste, although I don't think anyone has sold my plants. That was not the intent of plant trading.
It also begs the question, after a trade is complete, how far down the line of plant reproduction does it become acceptable to sell. A seed gained in trade after it's germinated? Grown up?
A plant that has grown enough to get cuttings to root and grow? There are some good opinions posted in the past couple years. Maybe someone will post again here.
Molly
:^)))
to me gourd you could have left a neutral on the slow pay and stated just that. but the one who never paid ought to have negative feedback. i don't want to trade with that person. now if they have no money and no plants and just want some plants from me they should just say that and then i can decide if i want to make a donation. lots of folks on daves made donations to katrina victims i read because those folks were honest and up front. and gemini, as far as what a person does with his plants once i send them i just don't want to be concerned about that. yeah it's kind of unethical but let's face it................on plants like brugs. it is easy to make cuttings and any of us could do it. maybe if we all did the prices on some of those things would come down. teehee.
Hello all you plant traders,
I, too, have had an experience like this...it has been 2 years or more that I have been waiting for my promised plant. Excuses of bad health, bad weather, etc. are given to me when I make a query about it. And I also went to a lot of trouble to send my trade promptly, cleanly, and generously even though I was very busy at the time and it was raining cats and dogs. I have not left any negative feedback, but I will be more cautious in the future. The saddest part is that I REALLY wanted the plant cuttings I was promised.
That said, plant trading has been my favorite aspect of my membership here at Dave's Garden. I also loved the coops, but they were ended due to unscrupulous participants/sponsors taking advantage of members. I hope this does not happen to us traders.
As to the last post above, yes I think it is unethical to request cuttings for postage and then sell them commercially. I am all too happy to share plants with someone for their own enjoyment, but not to subsidize their business.
For me, a trade is best, not simply a one-way transfer. Sometimes a person can be overwhelmed with requests for free plants and that is fine if you have lots of time and patience and live close to the post office. I do think that if someone requests a plant for postage, they should definitely send the postage in advance and also be very appreciative to the member for going to the trouble of digging, washing, packing, and sending the plant.
I try to restrict my trades to established, paid members who have been around a good while.
Some of my favorite plants have been received in trades!
Toxi
There have been other good threads in the past on this topic--one aspect that seems consistent is the encouragement of contributing feedback--of all types.
I don't restrict myself from trading w/ someone that does not have feedback, but I may not undertake a large trade the first time around. I was fortunate to have trades come my way when I was new--and appreciate that generosity of spirit.
I think it is courteous to offer to send postage off right away for when accepting plants for postage only--instead of waiting for the trader to ASK. Yes, a bit of a risk that the plants may not ever come (reviewing feedback is helpful here) but for me, I feel it is MY risk to take if someone is doing all the work to send plants out only for the postage.
However, when trades go poorly--and in some cases it may be w/ good cause--it think using neutral feedback is one avenue to utilize as it serves as a reminder to the trader that they have an unfinished trade, and as a note of caution to other prospective traders. When a trade situation improves, the feedback can likewise be improved to reflect the completion of the trade.
Good feedback is always helpful (but easy to forget to do)---and a nice way to say thank you again for the work that goes into a well-planned trade.
If you have done everything that you feel you can possibly do to retrieve your end of the trade, then yes, you SHOULD leave the appropriate feedback.
I have seen some hair-raising rip off artists in the years that I have been here. Many of them go to other forums, use the same names, and do the same thing. By leaving appropriate feedback, you are protecting the other traders on DG.
I do want to apologize if I am one who has not got my end of the bargain taken care of. I know I owe trades and when the weather clears from freezing I will get them out. I hate at this point to ruin good plants to a freeze.
The party I discussed that I left negative feedback is no longer here
that I can find. I did the last co-op here. This person was getting me plants and wanted to trade dollar owed for dollar owed. I agreed. Well I just realized not long ago, after sending plants, that to my dismay I
was not going to recieve my end. Too late I had sent theirs. This amount I am out is just less than a dollar shy of 40 dollars. That is a huge amount for anyone to be out. I also think 4.00 plus the plants shipped for postage is alot to be out unless their is a very good
reason.
I know their are some people who may be afraid or embarrassed to say something about a catatrope that after receiving the plants has left them no way to pay the postage. But I would rather know that
than never know at all.
""" after i had sent my trade the person wrote back saying " this window of opportunity has expired as i have other committments_ _ happy gardening." and then no response""" This is the most outrageous thing for a trader to say to someone. They deserve bad feedback. There should not be a window for trades if communication is open. They deserve bad feed back with this stated as response.
I don't ever mean for it to take long to send my plants for plants. As I said I do owe plants. Last year got rough with over 100 degree weather for so long, then during that time my DH was in the hospital for his blood pressure 187/135, Then hurricane rita some of my plants are trying to buonce back from, alot did not make it, and now it is winter. I feel very bad for the time passing. I don't offer trades now as I need to catch up first.
After Hurricane Rita I had a ton of DGers send me plants and I have saved dmail because I believe they deserve good feedback for their generousity,
Maybe we should post when we offer trades "I leave feedback" and follow thru. I know this sounds rough and I am one who would deserve that feed back right now. But on the other hand with me I have not had many SASEs go bad. the good out ways the bad here.
It is so hard to leave bad feedback. I guess if we sent a dmail telling them we were and got no answer then we would be left no choice.
Here I am babbling on and there is no cut and dried answer for any
us on how to handle this.
As for selling cutting gotten for SASE, I think it is unethical to do that, and if someone is growing out seeds for a possible named variety it
is also unethical. But If I send a cutting and they grow it out and take cuttings, how can I tell them what to do? I hope we don't have many of the people who do this. I only have unnamed white brug cuttings that will be for SASE come spring. But I sure hope our fellow DGers who work so hard to pollinate for us to eventually have beautiful new colors don't have to worry about this.
Ok I have went on enough.
I feel that feedback should be posted for every trade, good or bad. Being able to post feedback is one of the reasons I joined DG. I used to trade heavily on another gardening site, but after several occasions where I never received my end of the trade, I became very wary of trading there.
It is ironic that my first DG trade was a disappointing one in that the other person never sent anything in return. This has only happened once during my time here. All of my other trades have been good ones with feedback posted on each of them.
Do not hesitate to give good or bad feedback to a trader. I have sent hundreds of iris, daylilies, lilies & perennials to DGers and have rarely been disappointed with missing postage or trade items. I find most DGers very honest and generous.
I keep track of my trades. "Fool me once--shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"
Wanda,
I am so glad you posted "Fool me once--shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!" I hate to say I try to think how that goes ALL the time. EXCEPT on here.
My Son and I spent time together yesterday and I told him that him and I do wear something on our foreheads. He said he hadn't thought of it that way before. But I am not sorry to say I do usually return but the last few years I have learned. I let it go and do not hold a grudge but fool me twice and shame on me!
I don't hold a grudge, I just can't see throwing more plants at someone who doesn't play fair.
I've sent cultivars to you and many others--sometimes 40-50 packages a day of roots or good plants. The postage can get quite expensive after awhile. I don't want to "orphan " my plants in a box by the street. I would rather share with someone who honestly loves their garden.
I think most people are sweet and honest. That's all that matters in the long run. The others are just a waste of time and space.
Thanks to all for posting your comments. It looks as though more of us (including me!) need to start using the feedback option on DG for trades, when they are good, neutral, or bad. I'm also glad to learn that I'm not a paranoiac for thinking that sometimes the requests for SASE trades are for people looking for merchandise for their eBay listings and other retail sales. I've been suspicious of some, especially when they ask for as many as I can send of everything on my SASE trade list! (I usually let those trade requests slide by without fulfillment). I've thought about not listing anything as SASE (postage only) trades, but I do have lots of "weeds" that some people may want and don't really feel like I need anything in exchange for the plants that are prolific in my garden.
For those of you that have posted here with whom I have had trades, the experience has been a joy for me and hopefully for you too! I love having the packages of plants show up on my doorstep, sometimes as a surprise from generous DGers. I still owe a few trades myself, have some new requests, and I probably should make use of the pending trade list feature of DG, but my simple method of keeping track of trade requests is to keep the DG-mail marked as "Unread" until I finish the trade. That way, I have a daily reminder of what trades are still open.
Jeremy
I sure hope I took care of all who got plants from me, I'd hate to think that I "forgot" to respond, forgot to pay or forgot to send something that someone was anxiously awaiting. I don't have any negative feedback so I'm assuming all my traders are happy.
There's 2 people that I've sent things to that never let me know whether or not they received their items, but everyone paid me or sent me something. I will continue to trade with all who want to with me!
I had no idea that there was a feedback forum. Some lady sent me a bubble envelope for seed and it took about 3 weeks or more to get here. No telling what happened to it. I used to work ijn the post office and I must say a lot of mail gets missent so give it a little time. That is why its called snail mail.Haha. Lot of inexperienced people handling the mail now. I am retired and they were replacing us with casuals from all over the country. and some couldnt read very well.The machines make mistakes too. I hope no one thinks I took them to the cleaners.If you dont get what you sent for from me just d-mail and I will send it again. Thanks to all for answering this forum. And I will check out the feedback.Fran or Mary. go by both names as I am Mary Frances
Yep....when someone suggests a trade..the First thing I do is check the feedback rating...sometimes I will take a chance on a new trader if the trade is not a large one....
charlotte
now i have to eat crow but i wanted everyone to know my experience. if you'll read my post above i had a trade gone bad. TODAY i received that trade. i have left negative feedback and feel awful. i don't know how to retract it but i read somewhere that feedback could be changed. could someone please tell me how as soon as possible so i can make ammends? moral of the story............i know next time i will wait a really long time before i jump the gun. and some people i know are busier outside the home than i am. i still haven't heard from this guy. the plants are beautiful. wrapped wonderfully. seeds too.........clean and labelled nicely. i feel really bad. hope everyone learns something from my mistake. barb
Barb,
I just checked your home page and looked at feedback you left for others. There was no negatives shown.
I haven't left any negatives so can't tell you how to change it.
Molly
Hey, Mamajack. I can see your dilemma. I just tried out the "leave feedback" option for the first time to leave positive feedback for a recent trade. I don't see that there is a way to modify the rating once it is posted, but others here may know the trick to do it. It looks as though you just need to leave a second rating and explain your reason for changing your rating?
Also, I checked my own feedback that others had left for me --- > all positive so far. But I didn't know that anyone had left feedback for me! I now know that I need to check my own feedback from time to time to see what comments are there and be more concientious about leaving feedback for other DGers (all positive so far, minus one).
Still learning,
Jeremy
As an experiment, I went ahead and added a negative rating for my one bad trade experience (it's been about six months and the person hasn't replied to my DG mails and from the info on her member page, she hasn't started a single thread in DG so I wonder if she is still around). I checked after leaving the comment and there doesn't seem to be a way to edit the negative feedback rating in the way that I can edit other posts in forums.
Jeremy
Jeremy,
I just checked to see who you left neg. for. I clicked on their DG name
and they are not a paying subscriber. Although they still get their dmail
They can not post to the forums and they can only read the first post of each forum.
It took me a while to figure out their are members and subscribers.
If you click on yours or my user name we have when we joined and when we are paid to. And have the circle saying Dave's Garden Subscriber. Of course feedback thank goodness is for all.
I know I am probably repeating what you know, But it took me quite a while to learn. Aslo I loved when they added the feature of the different boxes in our e-mail. I made one needs feedback, needs sent plants, Just offered an ear. I must have 12 different ones. So much easier than having all in one box. I get confused just putting one foot in front
of the other. Actually Today I was so tired after the 5th place I had to go I know I lloked silly when I handed my credit/debit card to the checker and had the machine to do it myself? LOL Must have looked a bit goofy.
Blessings,
Sandy ^8^
well i figured it out after frantically searching how to get the negative feedback off. what you do is you go back to your member page..................i forgot. get back to you.
now i've got it. go to the member's page who you left the feedback for. and click on the one that says leave feedback for them. when you do, you see their feedback. and up at the top before feedback the prompt says "click here to add your own comment" or some such. click there and if you have left feedback you can then take it all back, every last word. type in your new and enlightened feedback and that's it. but it took me forever to figure it out. but you have to go to their member page. and all i said was what i already said in this post but this guy sent me beautiful things. i still don't know what his comment meant.
Thanks! MamaJ. That is very useful info. I appreciate that you were able to figure it out and share it with me! As an experiment, I followed your instructions and was able to change my negative comment to neutral for the person that didn't pay (give her the benefit of the doubt, I suppose).
Jeremy
I was buried in the Post Office once for 7 1/2 years. Come to think of it, I was married to the wrong guy for those 7 years too. Such ancient history--another life. I remeber opening a bag and finding a letter in the bottom that was 6 years old! Bag must have been thrown into storage with the letter inside. It was back in the 1970s--I TOLD you it was ancient history. Going postal sounded like a good idea toward the end,,,,
Thanks, Wanda, for the glimpse inside the postal service. I've generally been very happy lately with the way the US Postal Service handles the mail. Letters and packages I address to friends in my city are generally delivered overnight and most priority mail First Class packages do make it to the delivery point within about 2 - 3 days. I have made it a habit to pay the $0.50 extra for a delivery confirmation, for plant trades and other packages, just to know they did arrive if there is any question about the package reaching the destination.
My only experience with post office insurance was that it was more trouble than it was worth. An eBay item (a porcelain egg cup) I bought arrived broken. I had to take the item and all accompaning paperwork to the post office, file claims and have several meetings before I met all the requirements. The only refund paid by the post office insurance was the $1.50 or so I paid for the egg cup. None of the postage nor cost of insurance was refunded, and the post office wouldn't even consider the notion that the egg cup might be more valuable than the $1.50 I paid (I argued that I just got a good deal and the cup was worth more as an antique). The post office kept the broken egg cup, too, so my net result was spending about $6 for postage and insurance and ending up with nothing more than about $1.50 insurance settlement.
We are straying off topic a bit, but I can give an inside view of one of the major commericial package carriers (and I'm sure it is probably true of all of them, so I won't specify the company name). I worked part-time for the company, measuring boxes to determine those that needed extra fees for being overlimit for excess weight or dimensions. I saw the conveyor belt system used for packages and was one of those handling your packages that would have been shipped in the few months I worked for the company. No matter how many times you may stamp "Extremely Fragile - Handle with Care!!" on a package, the package will go through the same conveyor belts and be literally tossed, tumbled, slammed down, and crushed in handling along with all the other thousands of packages moving through the sorting facility at fairly high speed.
So, if your package contents are fragile, make sure the contents are packaged in such a way that they can handle gorilla attacks or mawling by other brutish creatures.
Jeremy
Straying off the topic is a problem? This is Dave's Garden isn't it? We ALWAYS go off topic just like real conversation....
Amen, Wanda! I love all the extra information we get when we go astray.
And Jeremy, it was your thread to start, so you can talk about anything......
Molly
:^)))
Yes, I, too, like to meander in my thinking, and I wasn't intending to admonish and hope no one took it that way! I do enjoy the way our minds divert into all things even remotely garden related and the sharing of information and experiences that results from our discussion. I've been following the "rooting experiment" thread in the brug forum and this old dog is learning all sorts of new tricks!
And to that end, and since it is somewhat remotely trade/feedback related, I will announce my new undertaking -- I finally got around to begin listing some items for sale on eBay! I started with just some stuff that has been lanquishing around the house for years and listed each with a starting price of $.01 cent to just get the hang of it. I plan to eventually list some of my "weeds" that are so prolific in my yard but that someone else might want: Spiderworts, Virgin's Bower, Lantana, Floss Flower, Milkweed, Pink Trumpet Vine, Cape Honeysuckle, and others that I've seen other sellers on eBay offer (they will still be free for SASE on DG and at our round ups, though!)
And more related to this original thread, I've not let the one bad experience dampen my enthusiasm for plant trading. I am arranging trades in conjunction with my "Jurassic Park" thread in the Plant Trading Forum and beginning to receive some of the "dinosaur salad" plants. Trading on DG for me is lots of fun and, in all but a few cases, a complete joy!
Jeremy
jeremy did you get a dmail from me? just wondering because i am having trouble with daves site. this was re: cardoon seeds. and you said you had sent me a post but i didn't get that.
D-mail wasn't working earlier, don't know if it is fixed yet.