Superthrive

tapla updated me on another thread on his observations on Messenger and Superthrive --

Here's the link: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4598330

Well, they have not given me any hint of a MSDS over at their site.
As for the 'long post' the fellow used 1/2 teaspoons ot each gallon as opposed to 1 drop per gallon.
With that I found all the rest of the info as questionable.
I also looked to see where his credentials are and found he has none posted.

Yes, I did a big google session on 'Superthrive' last year and it was difficult to find out much. Just that the fellow who originated it had worked or had some kind of relationship in pre WW II Japan.

And that was a clue to the make up of the potion-- the Japanese were doing a lot of innovative vitamin and protein research for plants there at that time...kind of vague...just like the label on the bottle!! (The fellow has some kind of quasi degree from some where, as I recall.)

I think they don't have to give all the OSHA info because they say it's a tonic not a fertilizer or something like that...

Interesting stuff! We should mix something up and make a label! We could make millions, too!

In the meantime I'm spraying it around my seedlings like crazy! Silly me!

I'm going to start my coleus cuttings outside this next week. I'll be bottom watering with the 1 drop in FE and H2O2 water. They do say in addition, not instead.
Now to find tea tree oil...... it's always one thing or another.
;)

I buy tea tree oil at CVS pharmacy. (In the shampoo area). Did I miss something? What is the use for tea tree oil? Lou

In the recipe over in the Brug forum. I'll check it out at CVS. For insects I believe.
Thanks

There's a whole thread on Superthrive over in the Upper Midwest Regional Gardening Forum.

Here's my contribution to it-
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1914180

"We all want a quick fix and in the quick fix department that product stands alone. It does it all! I feel so empowered just owning it that I should go right out and buy a wooden baseball bat to root."

I'm with tabasco-

Equi--your report of your Superthrive experience was interesting. Probably one of the most extensive observations I've read about! And your conclusions seem fairly consistent with others of us who are skeptics.

But wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall in the Superthrive boardroom and hear them discussing their sales strategies and counting their cash. When I make my trips to Los Angeles, I often think about driving by their headquarters and stopping in for a visit. I am totally intrigued by the whole 'urban legend' of the stuff...(although the Vitamin B (?) may have some validity in the growth or rooting of some plants...)

Does anyone have the address of the home office handy?

Sorry tabasco, I wrote that three years ago and I don't have any left. If I recall, the product is sold attached to cards hanging on end caps unless you order it by mail and then you just get the bottle. If there is anyone out there who just bought it, maybe they'll have some addresses and phone numbers for you. Unfortunately, I'm convinced this product is right up there with Dragon's Blood (Sangre de Grado) which is an extract from Croton lechleri.
http://www.amazon-nutrition.com/dragons-blood.html
Look what all Dragon's Blood is and can do for us mere mortals:
healing of wounds
antibacterial & antifungal
antiseptic
haemostatic
anti-inflammatory
citotoxic
stomach ulcers
wounds & cuts
rheumatic swelling
tooth extraction
hemorrhoids
pharyngitis and tonsilitis
diarrhea

AND! In addition to all the above it can treat plant infections both bacterial and fungal!

A few "studies" are cited but there's no valid scientific research. People using it to treat infections in plants are doing so on anecdotal reports of isolated cures.

"Ahhh, the mysteries of Dragon's Blood. We in the scientific community have no clue what the hell it really is and know even less about how it does what it does. What we do know is this: Its the blood of Dragons and dragons are pretty cool. Therefore, we can only assume that it retains a portion of the dragon's coolness and transfers it to the beholder."

And Dragons are magical and have magical powers.

That being said, I think I'd select Phyton 27 over Dragon's Blood if I had to treat a plant with a fungal or bacterial infection that I couldn't identify. That product has the science behind it.

Ok, I admit it, I'm a skeptic but today I bought both Messenger and Superthrive. I went to our garden store, the Messenger $12.99 for 3 packages which I can mix 1/4 teaspoon per quart of water. The Superthrive was $9.99 and it says it makes 2000 gallons @ 1 drop per gallon. I mixed the Messenger and sprayed all of my seedlings with it. Tonight I will play with the Superthrive. I am preparing myself to wake up in a jungle in the morning, (heheh).
Kathy

Since you just bought your SuperThrive, can you give tabasco the address of the home office?

Sweet dreams over night guspuppy! Here's hoping you wake up to a tropical rainforest.

I sure can.
From the back of the bottle;
Made in the USA by VITAMIN INSTITUTE
Origianl World-Lifting Life Complexes
12610 Saticoy Sl(?) South M. Hollyowod, CA 91605

Thanks a million, guspuppy! And sweet dreams! And we will all want to hear from you in the morning when you check your seedlings!

So will you open one envelope and just use a quarter tsp. and the remainder won't spoil?

I'll do that too tomorrow. I have enough seedlings now to give it a try.

You must have purchased a big bottle of Superthrive. Mine is about 3 inches tall (and the print is very small.)

After you open that envelope carefully fold the top closed and put a clip on it. I hadn't considered using messenger this early. What you mix should be used in just a few hours. At this time of year it really pops the petunias.
A light mist is all that's needed. If it drips you're wasting it
I did 400 coleus cuttings tuesday and I did the bottom water with fish emulsion/disolved root builder/1 drop ST in a gallon of warm tap water.
I am just tring to get them to stand up right now.

Messenger will definitely make a difference. What a difference on my tomatoes last year! All plants I sprayed did great. It's the real deal. Spray plants every 3 weeks.

Did you start in March?

Messenger is a product based on a lot of genuine scientific research into a phenomenon called "systemic acquired resistance" or SAR. See my article: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/730/

As far as Superthrive goes, I have used it for many years and recognize that the true ingredients are unknown. The product's origin dates back to a time when a lot less was known about the needs of plants, the health of soils and soilless media, and related nutritional topics. My take is that it is a "shotgun" approach to providing non-fertilizer complex organic compounds to plants. Research since Superthrive was first formulated has resulted in the identification of specific biochemicals (such as harpin protein, found in Messenger, gibberellins, IAA, cytokinins (the last three used in 21st century tissue culture), etc.) that give beneficial results when applied properly to plants. I know of one fellow who used to use a mix including Superthrive plus added kinetin (a cytokinin). He was growing tissue culture plantlets and he got excellent results. But remember that his plants came from the test tube where they were acclimated to an artificially supplied biochemical diet, as it were.

The label on a Superthrive bottle harks back to a time when other horticultural products were hyped in a similar manner, including new plant introductions!!

The bottom line, IMHO, is that if you are using soilless media, you are well advised to use a product that provides some of the beneficial microorganisms and biochemicals that are sadly lacking in such media. Superthrive may not be the best in a scientifically verifiable sense, but is worth testing out in your own situations to see if it has value for you.

LariAnn
Aroidia Research

Thanks, everyone, for all the tips and details.

Superthrive reminds me of 'Geritol' and 'Carter's Little Liver Pills' that they used to concoct and sell (for human consumption). Now off the market, though. It's a mystery to me how it works, but I admit my seedlings seem very healthy and superthrive all I've been using on them other than water, for the moment, anyway.

I look forward to trying out the Messenger this week, though.

Plant chemistry is fascinating, and thanks for referring us to your article about aspirin and aroids, LariAnn.

They still sell Geritol.
Think I'll add that to my plant tonic.
LOL

;)

Good gracious! I thought I would be the only person on DG who remembers Geritol and here it is still on the market! I never see the commercials anymore. (-;

Actually it's probably not a bad thing for the plants, is it? It has Vitamin B1 in it probably. And iron, too, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geritol

I am reading the directions on both of these bottles and I am still confused. lol Which do I use in the water to start seeds? And then which do I spray on the seedlings? When I am rooting cuttings is it the Messenger I use for that, because Superthrive says for rooted plants. oye vay, I am sooooooooo lost. heheh But that isn't anything new.
Thank you, Kathy

Use the Geritol,LOL
Messenger has a puffer to use on seed before planting. Not what's in an envelope.
I think the ST will help in the rooting too.
Goodluck

Now that I have enough seedlings sprouted to make mixing up a small batch of Messenger worthwhile, I'm going to give them one spray/dose of Messenger every three weeks as suggested.

Some people put a tiny touch of Superthrive in the 'seed soak' water before planting. Also I've been putting a drop or two of Superthrive in my H2O sprayer and spraying the sprouts and seedlings as the sprouts emerge. I also use my Superthrive/H2O sprayer to keep the soil moist in my seed starting trays, so I'm sure the seedlings are absorbing Superthrive more or less regularly. I really don't know if this makes a difference or not, but I've never had such nice looking seedlings before. Now that I have enough little plants to make a potion of Messenger I will stop the Superthrive, though.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert at it of course! I've just started seed sowing under lights in a fairly big way in the past several weeks. And this is just the second little bottle of Superthrive that I've purchased in my life and I'm not sure I will spend the money on more if the Messenger does well, as I expect it will!

We will be snowed in today so I'll be planting more seeds!

:Disclaimer:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
lol too funny
thank you for the help, gonna go mist the babies now.

Tab, The Messneger helps plants branch out and become more bushy, so the people who are really sold on it are growers of branching dicots.

Messenger doesn't do a thing for monocots: daffodils, or grasses or palms. And probably doesn't do a thing for any plant that doesn't branch -- like lilies (genus Lilium), Cannas (?), and most spring bulbs.

I have always wanted SuperThrive :)) I can't help myself....I just want it. Plus I gotta stop reading these threads -- now I want Equilibrium's Phyton 27, and also Cleary's 23 (a sort of fungicide from another thread) LOL!

Suzy

I am using both Messenger and Superthrive, to try them. I can't say that I see any difference in my seedlings, BUT, don't mix more Messenger than you will use up right then, if it sits overnight, it smells so foul that you have to throw it out.,, ::plth hackk::
Kathy

Also it looses it's oomph!
However are you sure it's the messenger that stinks and not some Fish Emulsion that remained in your pump sprayer?
Sidney

Sidney,
Lol, yes, I don't use fish emulsion. I mix it in a clean and sterilized pitcher.
Kathy

I'm so tight that I can squeeze a nickel until the buffalo poops. Therefore I find something to use every drop on.
I recon that's why I never noticed any odor at all.
One other warning since the method of application for messenger is a foliar
spray, be careful not to mist the weeds too. I had some sword ferns that go to be 5 feet long.
Sidney

''I had some sword ferns that go to be 5 feet long."

ROTFL that must have been a site Sidney!!
Kathy

Here those ferns are a weed and they have thread like runners that put off little cocktail onion looking bulblets. An over spray of Messenger will double their size and number.
;)