Forum on Mums

Is there one and if so where would I look? Or if I have a question what forum would I look under?

Thanks

Lavina

I don't think there is a specific one for mums. If you go to the "forums" tab on the top of the page you can see the list of all the forums that are out there and see which one you think your question would fit best in (maybe Perennials if it's a general question, or Identification if you have a mystery mum, or Garden Foes if something's eating your mums, etc).

I'd vote for one!

me too -

Did anyone ever read Clifford Simak's short story called "Autumnland"? It appeared in an anthology decades ago - don't know how to tell you to find it now - the story epitomizes the essence of chrysanthemums in one of its scenes.

Whether there's a mum forum or not, does anyone want to trade mum cuttings next year? Park's Seed has been selling a packet of mixed, "all kinds" exotic hardy mum seed in recent years - this year you have to tell them you "really want it." 2 seedlings that have wintered over from one of those seed packs for 3 years in my garden look like incredible greenhouse mums.

Am going to see if I can obtain any seed from the flowers in glasses of water this fall.

Well, amazing things are happening in the mum breeding department, although you would never know it from most garden plant / seed catalogs - this is one flower that could definitely use a boost right now. And then there's its place in art and literature...

Welp... I'm not necessarily pushing for a mum forum but I could use some info on mums! I grew out over 400 this year and only sold about half! Now I'm hoping to winter the left-overs over in a safe manner so I can sell them in the Spring.

I'm assuming I can heal them in and they should be fine...or perhaps just bring them in and cram them into the g-house, hoping real hard I don't have to actively work them all winter!

Wish me luck!

Hi 'Shoe - sounds like your beauties are still sitting there in their pots!

Hmmm. What kind are they? Did you start them from a seed packet of hardy mums like 'Autumn Glory', etc.? If we can ascertain that they are winter-hardy in your area, they should be alright heeled in not too many days ago - as in now.

One way to tell whether a mature mum is hardy in the fall is to look at the base of the plant. If there are some new shoots down there, it should be hardy.

For the mums you decide to heel in, the following might be helpful:

1) Wait until just after the ground surface freezes hard and then put down a mulch to keep the ground frozen during winter thaws. The mulch could smother new shoots and provide a nifty habitat to slugs in spring, so be very crafty when gradually removing the mulch in spring.

2) Also, keeping the whole business under a tunnel of "floating row cover" will fool them into thinking the winter is one or two zones toastier - am talking about that fabric made of woven polyethelene that lets rain through.

3) Since the roots will not be well established when you plant them "yesterday", you will need to patrol the patch during the winter so you can push those roots back down in the ground in case alternate freezing and thawing should push them up above the ground (That is why I only have 2 gorgeous beauties out of two of those seed packets now - grrrr)

For any mums you decide to winter over in the greenhouse for insurance, I would keep the greenhouse cool enough to fool them into dormancy, but not too cold - do not know what those temps would be - 35 degrees F??? Would keep watering to a minimum, but not too dry.

Hope this helps. If you find a time machine that will transport you to yesterday with a shovel, would love to share.

Y'all might like this chrysanthemum link:

http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/symbols/ChrysanthemumThe-0982.htm

As background for the above link, evidently, the Portugese established a trading post in Japan on the Pacific side (?Nagasaki?) early in the 17th century (around 1607?) that was managed by the Dutch - hence the Dutch connection from Japan to Europe later on in the 17th century for chrysanthemums (among other things).

When we look at a Japanese woodcut with landscape and chrysanthemums from the Edo period in mid-1800s, we are looking at a synthesis of thousands of years of Chinese history combined with Dutch masters like Rembrandt through the Japanese.

Would be happy to send out my chrysanthemum "library" of images - one a day - mindlessly without comment - if anyone would like to dmail me with their email. (have not quit the Monet, Shoe)

Thanks for the above info!

I started all these from rooted cuttings this past June/May for pot sales. The tags I got with each variety have planting instructions for the customer as well as how to deal with the mums the following Spring, so I am assuming these will be hardy here. (I've actually had great luck already rooting some of the accidentally broken-off branches from some of them so I'm sure I'll at least have a good stock to work with in the Spring!)

I was thinking of leaving the plants in their pots and perhaps dig a trench with my tractor, setting the pots in the trench, then cover them up to the level of the pot. I also have plenty of leaves to use as a mulch and also row cover (Reemay) (I luv that stuff!). :>)

One of my initial goals was to put up another g-house/cold frame house for over-wintering many of my perennials in. This would not be heated but only covered in white plastic in an effort to keep the plants dormant (which may be hard to do in our area as it gets pretty warm certain days in Winter).

Now about that time machine...hmmm!

Also, thanks for the history lesson above too. Sounds pretty interesting!

Shoe, the only problem I can see with trenching those mums has to do with their being left in their pots sunk into the ground: drainage.

Much of the "knowledge" of I have gained over the years has - unfortunately - been learned the hard way :-( In the past, when I sunk a pot of a plant into the ground over the winter, rain/ice/snow would not drain away the way they would during summer, but instead, would accumulate and freeze inside the pot, much to the joy of our compost pile come spring, but not to the plant.

However, speaking about compost piles, plants buried (thought they were dead) in the compost pile, but still above the ground, made it through winter fine.

So, through trial and whoops, error has not always been the result.

Am having too much fun with this electronic quill - hope this helps anyway.

Hmmm....reckon I should get to bldging my cold frame soon then, eh? (Looks like that'll be on the back burner for a while though.)

Wish me luck! May just have to row-cover some of the mums and over winter some in the g-house.

Can't get images on DG to enlarge - have posted on separate thread on this forum. But - from what I can see - looks like you have quite a chrysanthemum festival going there. Hope you get them through winter.

Don't forget to stuff mulch all around (and up to their rims) those pots under their row cover...and then put bales of hay / straw all around the perimeter?

Wow those are some pretty flowersHorseshe. I am not far from you and would have bought a few pots had I known. Are you selling them to florist?
Have you checked with Fairview Nursey in Cary or other flower shops in the area? Maymack,etc.
Lavina

Howdy, Lavina!

I normally sell plants and produce at our local Farmers' Mkt as well as "where-ever else" I can! I hope to do more wholesale sales next yr and also more than just one Market, but will have to play it by ear.

You should please feel free to contact me if you are looking for anything...always great to meet fellow DGer's!

Shoe.

Wow, shoe!!! I am impressed!

I got 30+ rooted cuttings* (each a different variety) from Kings Mums http://www.kingsmums.com/ earlier this year and they've just now started blooming. I also have numerous 'grocery store' varieties. Next spring I'm hoping to take cuttings from all of them and try my hand at rooting them. (Although I haven't had good luck with chrysanthemum cuttings thus far...)

If I'm successful I'd be interested in trading.

Donna/dstartz


* Not all survived
A12 Alexis http://www.kingsmums.com/intermediate_incurve.htm
A15 Angel http://www.kingsmums.com/anemone.htm
A16 Apricot Alexis http://www.kingsmums.com/intermediate_incurve.htm
C11 Cherub http://www.kingsmums.com/anemone.htm
C18 Coral Reef http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
C19 Crimson Tide http://www.kingsmums.com/irregular_incurve.htm
E11 Evening Glow http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
F14 Flair http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
F15 Fleur De Lis http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
F23 Fort Smith http://www.kingsmums.com/irregular_incurve.htm
F17 Frosty Morn http://www.kingsmums.com/Single_Semidouble.htm
G12 Golden Rain http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
G16 Gum Drop http://www.kingsmums.com/Cascades.htm
I10 Icicles http://www.kingsmums.com/spider.htm
J11 Jackstraw http://www.kingsmums.com/decorative.htm
J10 Jennifer http://www.kingsmums.com/garden_cushion_mums.htm
K10 Kelvin Mandarin http://www.kingsmums.com/pompon.htm
K27 Kokka Bunmi http://www.kingsmums.com/irregular_incurve.htm
M22 Macho http://www.kingsmums.com/Single_Semidouble.htm
M21 Mt Shasta http://www.kingsmums.com/irregular_incurve.htm
O12 Oriental Knight http://www.kingsmums.com/spoon.htm
P27 Purple Light http://www.kingsmums.com/anemone.htm
P26 Purple Lucky Time http://www.kingsmums.com/anemone.htm
R16 Redwing http://www.kingsmums.com/spoon.htm
R23 River City http://www.kingsmums.com/irregular_incurve.htm
R24 Rose Maiko http://www.kingsmums.com/Cascades.htm
S10 Saga Nishiki http://www.kingsmums.com/brush_or_thistle.htm
S11 Saga No Izumi http://www.kingsmums.com/brush_or_thistle.htm
S19 Seatons Toffee http://www.kingsmums.com/quill.htm
S23 Shamrock http://www.kingsmums.com/quill.htm
S37 St. Tropez http://www.kingsmums.com/intermediate_incurve.htm
T14 Trendy Time http://www.kingsmums.com/spoon.htm
V12 Vernal Falls http://www.kingsmums.com/Cascades.htm
V13 Vesuvio http://www.kingsmums.com/anemone.htm
V14 Vyron http://www.kingsmums.com/Single_Semidouble.htm
W12 Wisp of Pink http://www.kingsmums.com/brush_or_thistle.htm

dstartz, thank you for that thread - very helpful.

2 of the mums that have wintered outdoors here with no protection resemble the following King's mums:

incurved mum C19 Crimson Queen - resemblance is very close - might be exact with proper pruning

spoon mum 9A Kimie - my mum has many more rows of petals than Kimie. The long, thin, spooned petals unfurl outwards at different lengths from a matted center stuffed with furled petals. The overall effect is like a flat star, rather than a round ball like Crimson Queen.

dstartz, Lavina, Ecrane and Shoe, since I don't have many mums, would you consider trading for different kinds of plants from my garden in the form of seeds now, divisions in the spring (mid-Mar - April best while they are closest to winter dormancy for traveling thru mail) and softwood cuttings in late May / early June?

Will make up a list of what I have to d-mail everyone on this thread - to begin, let me offer 2005 seed collected in my garden from Lilium 'Black Beauty' x L. 'Casablanca' and x L. 'Silver Realm'. Propagation method is in: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/551729/ Let me know if you are looking for anything in particular.

I think I just flunked my time-management course - good thing my compost likes house moots.

Does anyone know about the chrysanthemum 'Sheffield Pink'? http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/12717/ I am totally besotted with it and am having a hard time locating it. I think it might even be pushing it to grow it in 6a. [It's also the name of the gay/lesbian newspaper in Sheffield, England.]

It wintered over here for a few years and then up and disappeared one spring - don't know if it was fluky piles of ice and snow or rabbits or voles or woodchuck or what. I agree, mum 'Sheffield Pink' makes a very graceful cloud of velvety, pale peach-pink daisies. Would plunk it down before I'd mess with a pompom in a heartbeat.

I"ve seen the Sheffield Pink (really peach, right?) growing in a neighbor's yard. I'll see if I can get a cutting or two if you'd like.

I also wanted to ask if the fancy mums are harder to grow than the regular kind. I love mums, but just don't know if they like the hot and humid South.

Pins, have a couple of thoughts here about whether fancy mums (crosses of Chrysanthemums indicum and C. sinense) are harder to grow than the regular kind (C. coreanum - syn. C. sibericum - also known as Korean mums). By now, oodles of other species have joined the mix, but for purposes of this discussion, let's stick to these main groups.

The King's Mum page called "Growing Information", under "Winter Care", says that "Chrysanthemums on the whole are not entirely winter hardy in areas of hard freeze." Now, let's suppose for the sake of argument that they are only talking about the fancy mums that they sell. Since zone 7a does get a hard freeze, then very likely overwintering one of their mums is much more work than overwintering those Korean mums in your zone. Plus, if your goal is to grow one of those scrumptious flowers, then the other cultural information they give to obtain that quality of flower adds up to a lot more work than that required to grow those Korean mums.

However! For the past 30 years, the *University of Nebraska North Platte Station has been crossing the fancy mums with the ordinary mums (hardy to zone 4 in the North American Great Plains and Canada) - see U of Neb link below), so now there are many greenhouse/fancy types of mums that will winter over as far north as Nebraska. Results of this breeding program include the "Football Series" of mums, as well as various spider, quilled and carnation mums - all said to be winter hardy (Nebraska??).

Plus, remember my post of 11/28/05 9:45 am? I have overwintered outdoors, with no protection, for 2 winters of sub-10 degree F temps, 2 seedling mums of fancy, greenhouse caliber from a pack of seed from Park's Seed (who no longer makes it available).

So, we know that fancy mums exist that can be grown like ordinary mums: cut back every 2 weeks until July 7 with no special winter protection if well established in the ground by winter. Also, according to Elizabeth Lawrence in her book, A Southern Garden, even ordinary (Korean) mums need to be renewed ideally every spring by starting fresh new cuttings; otherwise, after a few years, they will disappear - like other short lived perennials like columbines.

Our task is to find hardy mums whose flowers explicate all the ways that can make a chrysanthemum such a thing of beauty and then swap and pass them along to each other and anyone else interested. I take back my rude remarks about pompom forms.

I would be thrilled to have a sunny patch about 10' x 10' just for mums that did not take too much coddling - maybe getting by with renewing half annually by cuttings. There would be a path down the middle so I could be surrounded by mums. 10' x 10' is also a good size for floating row covers in case of frost before blooming is finished. Perhaps I would rotate it through another 10' x 10' patch devoted just to gorgeous, fascinating and legendary annual flowers (no landscaping consideration here) like farmers rotate their crops to reduce infestation of bugs and disease.

* the source website for the U of Nebraska North Platte breeding program is: http://www.growit.com/bin/KnowArt.exe?MyKnow=204

This message was edited Dec 3, 2005 4:45 AM
par 3, first sentence edited regarding cold hardiness of North Platte mums.

This message was edited Dec 3, 2005 4:58 AM

Pins, regarding the "hot and humid south" in particular, mums do have disease issues, which from what I've seen and read, necessitate regular renewal by growing from seed. Elizabeth Lawrence, gardening in piedmont North Carolina, pointed this out with regard to the Korean mums she grew.

To get seed of these new crosses between hardy and fancy mums, I think it would be fun for us DGers to try it ourselves (where would we get this kind of seed, anyway? anyone out there know?). I'm trying it this winter, but am not sure of success. Here's what that website I gave in my foregoing post says about saving seed:

1. You need a room (not necessarily a glasshouse) with above freezing temps. Sunlight not necessary (seed set has been obtained in root cellar without light).

2. Keep sprays of mum flowers in glass jars of tap water.

3. "The work of crossing chrysanthemums is facilitated by shearing the petals from the flower head to expose the pistils... Shearing is best done in the late bud stage." I went downstairs just now and sheared back the petals on some of the flowers. In the middle of the flower is a "button" where little golden structures have appeared (The "button" is the central disk of the flower, and the "golden structures" are "...perfect [flowers] ...which produce both male[anthers] and female [pistil] parts"). I brushed these parts of the sheared flowers against each other and am hoping I have facilitated seed set. And I left some flowers alone to see whether they set seed, too.

I wonder if any of dstartz's fancy mums would be hardy? Whether or not, would love to try crossing some of them with mine.

If I do get seed, and if I get too much for the tiny space I have, I hope you folks in this group will take some, grow it on, and perhaps among us we can arrive at something special. It looks like we can't depend on seed houses anymore for this kind of chrysanthemum seed.

This message was edited Dec 3, 2005 4:47 AM
edited #3, sentence 3, regarding names and description of reproductive parts of mum flower per U of Neb website given above.

This message was edited Dec 3, 2005 5:14 AM

What great information. Thank you so very much! Tomorrow I will print it out and read it over several times to commit it to memory. I really do plan on ordering some of those wondersul mums this spring. If you do get too many seeds, I would love to be a part of your experiment to see if we can grow them successfully down here. They are so gorgeous!

Pins, I edited those two 12/2/05 posts regarding cold-hardiness and propagation as noted at the bottom. Just 2 sentences.

http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b/bp/ used to sell an enormous variety of hardy chrysanthemums - you could buy a 6-pack of different kinds of football mums or another of spider/quill/spoon mums for a very economical price. Perhaps they will again for the 2006 season when they update their catalog. Their plants have been small upon arrival in spring, but always made very healthy, bushy plants later in the season.

Does anyone else know of seed or plant sources of unusual hardy mums?