How about a Plant Files Black List?

Alright so my glass is always half empty but Dave would love to be able to to go into the plant files and see all the plants with 20 or more neg comments. I love to check the page on a day in day out basis to see and check into the neg comments - this would be a fun way to be able to see those plants that are a problem. It would also work for people to point to a list and say these are things you sont want to plant. I dont know if it could even be done but worth a shot asking! Mitch

Hmm... I'm not at all keen on having negative types of lists.

For example, the USDA has lists of invasive and noxious plants by state. However, that doesn't mean a particular plant would be "bad" in a different zone or even within a contained setting.

Many comments in the PlantFiles are subjective, based on the taste and desires of the poster. I tend to scan all to grasp an overall idea of how a particular plant might work for me regardless of its overall rating.

This would not be a useful feature for me, if I understand it correctly. :)
Donna

This message was edited Oct 19, 2005 6:25 PM

sorry, but i don't think it would reflect the true worth of the plant. i see alot of negatives posted simply because. i have to end the sentence there because that is how i feel after i read the comment. i don't have a clue why they posted the negative in the first place.

i've seen comments referring to a plant as performing well and flowering, etc. and then bam, a negative or neutral. since the comments don't always make sense, i think a list would make even less sense.

also, it doesn't take into account the experience of the gardener. ie: if a newbie gardener overwaters a cactus and it rots and that person then gives the cactus a negative without going into detail, how is that fair to the cactus?

i understand your desire for such a list, but as with even the best garden book lists, there are just too many variables.

this is my 2 cents. debi

I tend to agree that there is nothing positive to putting out a negative list.

A lot about whether a plant is good or not depends so much on the location and the time and skill of the person growing it. Some plants may be real pests in some zones and not hardy at all in others. Some are kept under control IF the person growing it is aware the the plant's tendencies and works to control the bully. And some plants which are affected easily by pests may survive well if the gardener gives it the time and attention to control thoses pests.

I may have posted a negative about one of my hostas because it is particularly susceptible to slug damage. Doesn't mean I don't like it, but knowing that it's susceptible means I'll keep a closer eye on it next year. Is that a negative? Maybe. Definitely it is for those who want a hosta to grow reliably and fill space. For those who are really interested in the different cultivars, it's just a challenge.

Ann

I agree with Ann .

Depends on where you live whether the plant is a problem or not. a while ago I came across a thread - in perennials I think (it was after I just joined and checking things out) about plants that people were sorry they ever planted. I was sort of astonished to read thru the list as many of the plants I had in my garden and they were no problem for me - just a different location made the difference.

I still feel this would be a good thing to add - it would be one more place to check and look before you went to and got a plant you would regret. It is not a place to look at for the final word but one plae were a newbie could look and be able to see the top plants that have been issues and can seek out other information. I to would just be better to me if at least we had the choice we the ability to sort the listings by rating at least like we can in the WatchDog.

Actually I think it could be kind of interesting if we gave users the option of seeing a "Hall of Fame" of PlantFiles entries, including:

a) The most popular plants (i.e., those that are rated most favorably - either in total, or by genus, as in the "Top (Ten? Twenty?) Tomatoes" (or fill in the blank with another genus);
b) The most commonly-grown plants (i.e., those that have the most ZIP codes added;
c) The most photographed plants (i.e., those with the most images)

d) and maybe even the Top Thugs, with the most negatively-rated plants that also have the "invasive" checkbox listed. (Which would help narrow the focus to the plants whose negative comments are most likely to relate to their aggressive growth.)

Just as we have always tried to maintain a positive tone for the GWD, I'd much rather we accentuate the positive (as the song goes), and not focus on the negative. But I can also see where a list of the worst offenders might be helpful to newer gardeners wanting to know which items to not accept as pass-along plants, and which plants to pass by when spring fever lures into a plant-buying frenzy.

(Dave is probably either laughing or groaning at my zeal for even more statistics....it must be the latent accountant/financial analyst in me ;o)

Terry a,b,c, and d all sound like great things to have in the plant files. GWD should focus on the best - but the plant files to me is also a place where if a plant has an issue it is the best place to earmark it. Thanks to the rating on poison ivy I left a little on the far edge of the field next to my home, I had never thought about the look of the leaves in the Fall.

D would be mostly for newer gardeners, they are just plants to stay away from untill you have a little more skill to know how they would be in our garden. Not to mention school kids would be able to use the files (and yes I have sent several teachers and even my first graders to the plant files to learn more!) if it had the top plants, top grown, and photographed! It would help build charts in the classroom!

Mitch

Terry, I love your ideas. That could really give new life to the PF homepage. I'll see what can be done!

dave

Wow! So I can put away the shin guards??? (I really figured I was going to get a swift kick for suggesting yet more statistical analysis ;o)

yeah, it sounds like we will be getting some cool new features. I love that! Thanks for opening this discussion up Mitch!

Rachel

Thank Terry for helping set out the best ideas and Dave for putting them to work!

I am going to love the new features!

I think those are GREAT ideas, Terry. Ya'll amaze me!

Aw, shucks. C'mon y'all - Mitch lobbed me a softball and I caught it - no big deal - I used his ideas to spin up some random thoughts to make all that data we collect into something interesting and fun for everyone ;o)

Most excellent, as I have come to expect from the admin of this site - thank you
edited cause of typos

This message was edited Oct 20, 2005 11:10 PM

Terry the softball was mine but the home run is yours, you have the knack at just taking our little ideas and letting it bud into something bigger then we could have dreamed of. Thank you for all your great ideas that really make this site work.

Mitch

What a great team! It all begins with an idea and someone unafraid to post it, like Mitch, even though it might have seemed bleak early on to him -- key example being my own first post.

I've really enjoyed reading the discussion here, as it got me to thinking outside the box as well, and am looking forward to seeing the subsequent enhancements to the PlantFiles. :)

Donna

This is turning into an interesting adventure.

I have an initial ratings system in place and you can now order your search results by their popularity:

http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=blue&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&Search=Search

This is only going on the comments, GWD style. Next, I plan to add in Zipcode reports. Here's my thought:

+2 points for positive comments
-5 points for negative comments.
+1 point for each zipcode report.

Once all that is in, I think it'll improve the search and then we'll do the other ideas.

Dave

Alright, check out the PlantFiles homepage.

Is anything else missing?

dave

That is too cool. :) Now...can you do the same thing (probably just for the top 5-15 or so) under each subcategory? In other words, if I click to browse through 'daylilies' or 'tomatoes' the first thing that pops up is the top rated ones?

Yes, that is planned.

How about most photographed?

mg

Is anything else missing?

only the kitchen sink ;o)

Seriously, that's very cool! I'm sure some ideas will surface on smoothing and tweaking the layout and presentation, but that is a GREAT start - thanks!!!!!!!

Most photographed is indeed already there.

Very cool! It is a bit of information overload though. It's a long way down if you just want to jump to the newest additions at the bottom. Does anyone else agree with me or do I just have a short attention span? :)

Maybe you could narrow it down to the top ten of each on the homepage with a link to a page that lists additional plants in each list.

The features have now been added to the cultivar pages!!!!

Dave this is great - thank you. Mitch

Cool features Dave.....you are quick!

Haven't played with it very much, but just for fun enter your first name in the "Cultivar" or "Common Name" entries and see what you come up with!

http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=Candy&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&only_images=on&Search=Search

You are going to love it - this is going to be a good thing to add.

This is fabulous! It makes me want to add rating and zip code reports etc for all of my pretties!

I chose Brugmansias first to check it out and saw it was brugs and dats, is that right?

Thanks Dave!
Rachel

this is S U P E R !!!!!!!!!

Dave I just love to go through the thugs! This is the single best upgrade to the plant files in my short time here! Thanks !!! Mitch

Dave, how about limiting that front page to the "top ten" of each, with titles something like:

"Top Ten Plants"
"Top Ten Thugs"
"Ten Most Frequently-Grown Plants"
"Ten Most Photographed Plants"

Each section could be followed by a link to "Click here to see the Top 30" (or something similar.

Then round out the page with the "Ten Most Recent Images" and "Ten Most Recent Comments"

OR


Instead of showing all the "top" images on the home page, have a prominent new section after the Search/Browse options - something like:

PlantFiles Hall of Fame

* PlantFiles Top Picks (would link to a page with the 30 most popular plants)
* PlantFiles Thugs: Plants We Love to Hate (link to page w/30 thugs)
* Most Frequently-grown Plants (link to page w/ 30 most ZIP code reports)
* Most Photographed Plants (link to page w/ 30 photogenic plants ;o)

Either way, the full list would have room for an explanation as to why these plants are on this list, and encourage viewers to add their "vote" by sharing photos, comments, ZIPs, etc.

Whatever you decide, this is very cool. It's been a long time since we've spruced up the PF homepage (probably not since we introduced the UBERs), so it's like you splashed a fresh color on the walls and updated the furniture - it has the energetic feel of a "new room" ;o)

Oh Terry the second option would be great - I hate to cut out 20 of each... It does make it long to go through but a great trip.

I guess I wasn't clear - my first option was suggesting only that the PF home page would show the top 10, with either 11- 30 (or all 30) displayed on a separate page, via a link.

Ahhhh - ok Terry both are great ideas then (just did not want to lose 20 from each!)

Gosh, it's like I walk into a new website each day, but I haven't changed the URL. How fun! ;)

I think it's a good idea to retain the full lists (on a separate page) while reducing the amount of info on the main page, which is something that sweezel alluded to earlier. Both of Terry's options sound good!

I like it but I agree maybe the top 10 of each and a link to the others on another page. Could the newly added be put at the top instead of the bottom of the page?

It does work I added my zip code to plants I even forgot I had.

I really love it. I'm going to start this weekend adding my reports.

Since we are on the subject of plant files... how come the zip code reports are in order of users instead of area or state? I always look for my state and it would be a lot easier on the long ones.

Thanks Dave, this is a great improvement! And thanks Terry and Mitch for the idea:)

Rachel