Succulents/cactus to grow in the ground - Zone 9B?

I'm in the Palo Alto area and I'm thinking about planting some succulents in the ground. Has anyone had success with this? And what kind of cactus or succulents did you plant. Someone in the neighborhood has one with very big blooms in the winter so I know that it can be done. All of them say less or no water in winter. But I can't do that if they are in the ground. Also, what about light? Full sun? Morning sun? No sun?

I've looked at Aoenium and Kalenchoe in terms of succulents but I could be way off track.

The rule of thumb is to make sure that your soil mix is really fast draining. That way whatever rain we get in the winter will go right through the soil and not stay on the roots very long. That having been said, there are many cacti and succulents which you can grow in Palo Alto MOST of the time. We have had a few bad frosts/freezes, and when we do you will lose some plants even if you protect them.

You can grow Aeonium, Aloe, Agave, Bulbine, Bulbinella, Calindrinia, Cotyledon, Crassula, Dudleya (we have two species which are native to our area), Echeveria, Fouqueria, Furcraea, Gasteria, Graptopetalum, Graptoveria, Idria, Kalanchoe, many Mesembryanthemum species, Mestoklema, Oscularia, Pachyphytum, Portulacaria, Sedum, Sempervivum, Senecio, Cereus type cacti, Echinopsis, Opuntia. And this is just a partial list. I have a friend in Atherton whose yard is FULL of cacti and succulents, and she does very well with them in the ground.

Do you know about the cactus garden at Stanford University? Go take a look at what they've done. Everything is in the ground and does well there. If you have the time and inclination, go to the Berkeley Botanic Garden. They have two large areas (African Hill, New World Desert) which have a lot of cacti and succulents. In addition, there are other areas (Mexico/Central America, South America) which include them as part of the landscape.

Think also about what kind of bushes, trees, etc. you want to include. I have a Mexican Palo Verde, Desert Willow, and Chaste Tree in my yard. They provide some filtered shade for those hot afternoons. Any xerophytic shrub or tree will do, however.

As to light, etc., many will take full sun, but some will want filtered shade, particularly in the afternoon. Research those plants you think you would like to have to see what conditions they need.

Hope this helps.

You have released me! Thanks once again. I'm leaving sedum land and off to more fun adventures!

D

You're welcome! Any questions, feel free to email me.

I have fallen into the wild world of Echiverias. Who knew from Hens and Chickens there were all the fabulous variations. I've decided to stick to primarily Echiverias and Aeonium for a place under some trees where the sprinklers don't go but I water once a week, and from the ground. However, Daniel's has a wreath deal so I thought it would be a very good way to see what will survive my conditions in the planter. There is also a tree in the planter, so they'll just have to be tough. 100 starts for $35.00. What's the best way to get them started?

Happenstance grows many succulents, some in the ground and lots in pots where it's much easier to control the watering. I know it was from touring her gardens that made me more interested in them and start collecting a few. She also grows the common grocery store variety kalenchoe in the ground.
This is one of my favorite threads she started in the Cactus and Succulent forum.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/509335/

Thanks Sue - I'm always just a step behind you.

Dorothie..

Dorothie, I am always a step behind many here, depending on what the newest plant find is for me. I love coming across something here and then doing the research. I sometimes just go and check out Candy's and other gardener's posts just to see alll the intersting plants and ideas she has and I can spend hours just catching up reading her threads and seeing all her images. She has so many fascinating plants.

I guess that's what DG is really about. Having someone who is two steps ahead of you. Your brown pot is lovely. Where do you get your plants?

I got them mostly from Home Depot & Target with a few different ones at various nursery visits here and there. Most were just in those little tiny pots. They grow pretty quickly. I love how they seem so far to be real easy and several are sending out flower spikes.
Just took this one of my big bowl.

Here is my old clay pot, I am sure as some grow faster than others, I will be movong them around and filling in spots here and there. I also plan on tucking several in the ground along the edges of beds.

Sue is absolutely right. Happenstance has the greatest ideas for succulents, and her posts are wonderful to read. I especially loved that one on strawberry pots too. She, like you and Sue, are in a much warmer climate than I am and so can grow some things I can't. Unfortunately she hasn't been posting the last couple of weeks. I think she must be on vacation - at least I hope that's what's going on. Hopefully she'll be back soon.

The best way to get your Echeverias and Aeoniums started is to make sure the planter's soil is well-drained, then just plant the succulents in the planter and don't water for a week or so. After that, only water when the planter is dry. If your tree needs watering more often, you need to amend the top several inches of the planter to accommodate the succulents.

As to your wreath, there's a place in Castroville which has them - Succulent Gardens (831/632-0482). You might want to give them a call and compare their prices to Daniel's.

This message was edited Aug 8, 2005 5:00 PM

Grazi! Lots of good ideas

D

Just wanted to let you know that I checked out this problem with Palmbob. He says that if the soil is fast-draining that the water shouldn't be a problem. But freezes might be. I'm going to try it. I can get a sort of cloth that protects things from freezes but lets water and sun through. I'll probably only use it when things get cold - but it's worth a try.

D

Here is the planter with the 'wreath cuttings' in it. I can turn off the bubblers but how often do you water your succulents. If I turn off the water I'll water the tree with a root feeder. How often do you water your strawberry pots?

Thanks for the help.

It's not a matter of how often. That can vary a lot from one area to another, from one potting soil to another, and from one week to the next. The best way to water is to remember that the soil in which succulents are planted should be allowed to dry out completely before watering again. A pencil or plant tag can be pushed into the soil and then pulled out. If the soil is still damp or wet it will cling to the pencil/plant tag. Touch the soil to see if it's damp. Don't water if soil it is. Over time you'll know what will work best for this group of succulents in this planter.

Good rule of thumb is if you don't know whether or not to water, don't.

Thanks, good advice. The ones in the photo are all just cuttings and not rooted. I am checking the top inch of soil to see how it is. I'll just try it. It will be at least interesting to see what survives. As close as these are I'm going to have to rearrange them.

Just looking at the photo - I've got to check the soil level with that tree too. It comes up too far on the trunk.

If you're interested: Most succulents, as you probably know, make more little plants next to or near them. These are called offsets or, more often, pups. In looking at your collection, most of what you have are pups, not cuttings. Cuttings are just that - a branch that's been CUT from the main plant rather than just pulled off. One of the "cuttings" you have in your planter is Crassula 'Hobbit' or Crassula 'Gollum'. They look so similar I always have a problem telling them apart. They're more like small bushes or trees - they grow like a jade plant (Crassula argentea).

You'll find that some plants will grow faster than others, and over time they'll need to be potted up separately. Also, because they have all this wonderful free root run, they'll get big much faster than if they were in a pot. I think you'll be pleased with what you have a couple of months from now.

I hadn't noticed, but you're right - the tree DOES have too much soil around its trunk.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking an interest. The tree is now fixed. I had to remove some "offsets" and replace them. A friend put the succulent mix in and wasn't careful with that part and I didn't notice. I should take photos of everything. I always notice things that need to be done. I'm planning on using a root feeder for the tree so that the succulents won't be too wet.

Yes, I think that there are several succulents there that grow into trees including aeonium. (What's the plural of that and can you believe that they could put that many vowels into one word?). The vendor sells these by the 100. They are really made to make into wreaths - which are very pretty, but at $35.00 for 100 I felt that it would be interesting to see what would happen. If they aren't happy - well, it wasn't a huge investment. I planted a few bigger ones, mostly Echevarias in another place that gets more sun. It is really fun to get into another plant world even if they look odd where they are.

I've learned so much already. And it's really fun to discover another part of the plant world.

You're welcome! Glad you fixed the tree trunk and will be watching the watering for the tree and succulents. This should work well for you.

Aeoniums (yes, there really are only 3 consonants!) come in many sizes, from very small to very large. The largest one I have is about 3.5 feet tall and almost as wide (A. Zwartzkopf). Very open, with nicely patterned trunk and stems and the rosettes on the end of the stems. Great plant. I have others where I volunteer that are the size of a quarter and some that are the size of a dinner plate. Some stay close to the ground and some grow taller. I've seen some where ONE rosette was about 1.5 feet in diameter! This was in San Francisco, out near the Great Highway and the zoo. They seem to like some shade.

I'd love to see your plants as they get settled in and grow up. I think this is a great experiment, and one that you will truly enjoy. Keep those pictures coming!

I'll take a photo of the other section tomorrow. They are all planted in a place that gets sun only until about 3:00 and then they are in shade. It's one of the few places that my sprinklers don't reach because I don't have sprinklers hit my trees directly. I've planted "Nobile" in the back because they told me that it really does like shade. The little one's under the tree of course get sun as the tree isn't really big enough to shade them. I have noticed that the aeoniums are a little 'floppy' today. Everything else is happy. I don't really expect the pups to all grow - but I will learn a lot from them, don't you think? I was tempted to get a Schwartzkopf but then I realized that it was a tree. I did buy some of those echevarias that look like cabbages. I really like them.

I had a three foot jade tree and it died in the huge frost we had years ago. I loved it so. But I never put another one in. Funny.

It's really helped that I have somewhere to come. The information on the net about taking care of succulents is abysmal.

When did your interest get started?

Shade after 3pm should be fine. What's "Nobile"? I really like the cabbage type Echeverias too. They're getting harder and harder to find, especially the really big ones.

You certainly should learn a lot from growing these succulents. I did something similar when I started in 1992. I joined a cactus & succulent society, and they had plant raffles every month. Got lots of plants that way. Also bought some at Home Depot and Orchard. Just wanted a variety of plants without spending a lot of money until I learned what I could grow. It was a lot of fun getting started, especially because I had all these people in the society who could answer my many questions. Now, after being a member for 13 years, I still ask a lot of questions and feel like I'll never catch up to some of them!

Sorry about your jade plant, but everyone lost a lot of plants during that freeze. I started collecting shortly after that so haven't been affected by a freeze yet.

There is a lot of great info on the Web about caring for succulents. The problem is that you practically have to know all about them already in order to find the info. Here's one example: http://www.tucsoncactus.org/. Here's another: http://www.cactus-mall.com/. I have a few on specific genera if you'd like them.

Thanks for the links. You've been doing this for awhile I can see. I bought some cloth from Garden's Alive that is supposed to keep plants from freezing in mild freezes. It lets light and water through so I'm going to try it next winter if things get really cold.

You'll find the aeonium Nobile under aeonium at:
http://danielscactus.hypermart.net/

I decided not to grow prickly cactus - although I do love their flowers - or prickly Aloe because of my little dogs. I'll send a photo today. My planting is a mishmosh of stuff. No rhyme or reason. I did try to keep the plants that end up tall in the back.

Right now I'm so thrilled that I just keep walking by them to see how strange they all are. Such a novelty.

You're welcome. We use that cloth stuff at the Botanical Garden when it gets too cold up there. So far, so good. Here in San Pablo I only get a few nights where it's below 40 for a couple of hours each. To date only a few hours below freezing at night about 6 times in 20+ years.

There are only a couple of Aloes which I would consider prickly (A. marlothii, A. ferox). What others have you found? My plants are almost all in pots, and other than keeping like with like, there's also no rhyme or reason.

Like I've said, wait until they begin to grow up - you'll love them even more!

Marilyn

My real concern is rain in the winter. If we have one like the last one, they may just float away!

Here is the planting with the larger succulents. I need to find some rocks. Will rocks keep the moisture in?

Nice!!! Yes, rocks will keep the moisture in. But that's not necessarily a bad thing - you just adjust your soil accordingly (more aggregate, less soil). If you want to add some pretty top dressing, Lyngso in Redwood City has some nice rocks.

Marilyn

Sadly, Lyngso is very rude and unhelpful, although you are right. They have great rocks. They seem to want to only deal with contractors. But Ciardella's in Palo Alto is great. And they have lovely rocks too. :-) Just in case you need rocks somewhere on the peninsula.

Thanks for the help with the rock info.

You're welcome. I didn't know that about Lyngso. I was only there once a long time ago. I knew what I wanted so I didn't talk much to anyone. Thanks for the info - I won't go back. Don't need those kind of people in my life. I'll check out Ciardella's the next time I'm down that way. I was in Burlingame today - could have made a side trip to PA this afternoon. LOL :>) I get my top dressing in Richmond at a place called American Soil Products. I also have a friend who provides me with special stuff he gets in Southern California, and another friend in Watsonville who gets me a gold rock which is pretty good. I think it's called California Gold. I was told Lyngso carries it, but now I won't be buying from them again.

Marilyn

You can go right ahead to Lyngso if you know what you're doing. But the last time I was there, the person who "helped" us had to do it on the sly because he wasn't supposed to be spending so much time with us. If Lyngso has what you want, it's probably worth the hassle.

You have a lot of friends. By all means come by and stop for a visit.

D

Thank you for the invite. I don't get down that way often, even less so now that gas prices are so high. It just so happened that I had a cactus & succulent board meeting on Saturday in San Jose and an Italian Greyhound playdate on Sunday in Burlingame. Next time for sure won't be until October 22, our next board meeting in San Jose.

I don't think I have any more friends than most. I do KNOW a lot of people of whom I can ask questions regarding plants and Italian Greyhounds (IGs). This is only because I've been active in more than one cactus & succulent society since 1992 (publicity mostly), I belong to an Internet discussion group on bulbs (Pacific Bulb Society), I volunteer at the Berkeley Botanical Garden and, since I got my IG, to the local IG club and IG playdate group. Except for the Garden I don't see most of them often (once a month or so), so it's difficult to establish true friendships. And I had some friends move out of town a year or so ago, so I don't see them very often now.

If you ever get up to Berkeley, let me know and I'll give you a tour of the Garden. Maybe we can do lunch.

Marilyn

I'd love to do the garden. Unfortunately I can't travel because of my health. I know how much fun you must have with your IG though. I had a Whippet many years ago. I would have gotten another one if I hadn't bought my Cavaliers. They are perfect for me in my situation though. And they run AROUND my plants. You must have some more photos of your succulents. Would you be willing to give me a link or to post them?

So sorry you can't travel. Hopefully I'll be able to get down your way soon. At the latest it'll be the end of October, so I'll be sure to check with you then. If you'd like to see some photos of the Garden, go to http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu/collections.shtml. Click on the highlighted items for big pictures.

Unfortunately, I don't have photos of my plants. I'm not much of a photographer. Thought I'd get interested in it last year when I went to Argentina, but after taking hundreds of photos there I came home and didn't start taking any. I keep telling myself I should, but I never seem to get around to it. If I ever do, I'll let you know.

Please don't feel obligated - although I would love to meet you. And not everyone is a photographer. It's different taking photos of a trip and taking photos of a garden and flowers. I've sort of become addicted. It must be fun to be a guide at the gardens. What a fun job.

Don't worry - it takes a lot to make me feel obligated to do much of anything. I'm careful about what commitments I make. LOL Even though I don't take photographs, I do love to look at ones other people have taken, like yours and Happenstance's.

I'm not a docent at the Garden - I don't do tours. I get to do something I think is a LOT more fun and interesting - propagation. I work in the cactus and succulents section where we propagate plants for our annual sales and our plant deck. Much more interesting, and I get to spend a lot more time at the Garden than I would if I were just a docent.

It sounds like so much fun working with all of those lovely plants - and you don't even have to pay for them!

I'm quite thrilled to have my garden put int the same sentence as Happenstance's. Not something I think of. She is so down to the details. I'll get there - but I tend to buy and plant what I like rather than what looks right. A problem being a plant lover.

Bring your dog?

Yes, that's certainly a benefit. And I get plants for free sometimes too. There's a section where the propagators put plants that need TLC, and we all can take them home.

Even though Happenstance is down to details, I'm pretty sure she still buys what she likes/wants without that much thought to what looks right. She always has something new, and then finds just the right place for it.

I'd love to bring Angel (my IG), but I can't take her into my board meeting. Unless the weather is quite cool, I won't allow her to stay in the car either. So she usually stays home with my other two dogs when I have to go somewhere. We'll have to wait and see.

Does she want to wait at my house? You do what's best for her. I'm glad that you don't leave her in the car. They can get too hot too easily.

So you're a succulent nurse too? And what about Cacti. Did I read that all cactus were succulents? I'm a little confused in this new world.

As the saying goes, "All cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti." Cacti are defined by a part of the plant called an areole. It's located at the center of the area where the spines come out. If there's no areole, it's not a cactus. Look at http://www.algonet.se/~jgrahn/cacti/pictures/. See the white spot in the center where the spines are? That's an areole. You can click on any picture to make it bigger. Some Euphorbias, for example, have spines but are NOT cacti because they do not have areoles.

I don't usually take any plants home from the plant hospital. They aren't ones I could keep alive anyway because they usually aren't cacti or succulents. And the ones I put out to be taken are ones I don't want or need.

Thank you for the offer of temporary dogsitting. I don't know how your dogs are, but IGs typically don't do well in the houses of strangers, especially if they're left alone without their pack or their owner. Angel would have a fit. The only way she could be at your house without me is to be left in her crate, and you don't want to see what a pitiful mess she'll make of that!! LOL :>) It's taken me at least six playdates to get her to have anything to do with the other IGs. The only place other than home that she's happy is at our local dog park, which she loves because she can play big dog there too. I know, I know - it's a lot of work. But in the long run I think it'll be worth it. After all, she had at least THREE homes plus the pound in her first 6 months. Her first owner, then the pound for a week, then someone else's house for 6 weeks, then my house. And she probably wasn't treated well in her first or second homes.

The poor baby! That is too much altogether. You should certainly take it easy with her. My dogs are fairly delighted to have a new dog in the yard - even more if it's another Cavalier, but I'm sure that they would totally overwhelm a shy dog. Now my sister's pug can't come over anymore though. He's too pushy and finally Penny snapped at him. He still came on with that silly little puggy face (which I love). It's a good thing that the Pug already had no face. She's never done that to another dog.

How lovely that you've made a home for her. In the end she has found a place to be herself. They are such sweet things. I can't imagine anyone mistreating an IG.

We'll just get to meet you then. :-)

The problem is that she's NOT shy at home. She's the alpha dog here and she pushes everyone around, including my 85-lb. German Shepherd! Then she goes somewhere else and acts totally different! LOL If the weather is cool enough I'll bring her. She needs to be exposed to as many different social situations as possible as often as possible. It's good for her, and I'll continue her training as long as she's with me.

I think Cavaliers are really cute. But Pugs are so ugly that they're cute too!! They both have such great personalities! Isn't it odd that all dogs recognize their own breed above any other? All of mine gravitate toward their own, even Rufus, the little mutt.