Well John, first of all you don't have to take seeds that you don't like or want, second, if we want to have a seed bank of native plant seeds only, that is what we will do, we just don't know yet what the other members want, or if they want a seed bank at all.
I think Mitch was being helpful and tried to share what he has, which I think is commendable, but we don't have to take what we don't want, and everybody is happy. Do you agree?
Gardening with Texas Native plants & Wildflowers. Part 7
No. If this goes unchallenged I will disassociate myself from this group and perhaps DG as well. This plant has caused great economic and enviromental damage!
John what do you expect us to do?
Challenge the idea of spreading noxious weeds! DG or this group should not become part of this terrible problem. Not challenging is tantamont to condoning what he wants to do. Don't you see that?
John you have mail
John, now you have made me curious about this plant. I went to the wildflower center data base and this is what they had to say, with no cautions for Texas.
http://www.wildflower2.org/NPIN/Plants/Detail.asp?Scientific_Name=Melilotus%20alba
John, do you feel the same way about yellow sweet clover?
It has been raised for cattle feed for ever in Oklahoma, and nothing smells better. I would like yellow sweet clover seeds. A small amount grows here wild, but not enough.
trois
In light of the ummm words about myself and my cancer in the garden the seeds are being moved from my home and in no way make it into any seed packets in the bank. I had no idea that the same group who told me in these threads the plant was non -native but fine to leave in my garden would react this way when I try to share the same with them. I just wanted to share the plant that brought me joy with the butterflies this summer - did not mean to blackball myself, or my garden. I will leave it up to Frostweed and Htop to tell me if the plant needs removed and will do so at their word. Until then lets drop the subject and go back to our natives and the joy they can bring us, and the wonderful chance we could start a seed bank with those who are willing to share seeds with the whole group.
Mitch
Trois, yes I do.
I will post the link above again. I hope it is read this time!
http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/weeds.htm
Google white sweet clover noxious weed
The above is only one of the returns. There are many others. Discredit the evidence if you can.
If the seed bank can guarentee that noxious weeds would not be sent to sensitive areas outside the Southern Pains I would have no objection but, I don't see how that would be posible. :-)
John, I guess you were thinking of a seed bank on a national scale, and I was thinking of a seed bank for Texas gardeners only. We can decide to have only native plant seeds, and we can decide who will run it, may be we can do it on a yearly rotation basis, so no one will have to be stuck with the job all the time. Maybe we can nominate people to run it, if people are willing to do it.
I think that could work, don't you?
Can it be guarenteed that these seeds will stay in Texas? Exclude non Texas DGers? How would you do that? Or, would theTexas Gardening Forum become THE place to get free seeds that are illegal in other states?
John, are you saying that Texas native plants are illegal in other states?
No. White and yellow sweet clovers are not Texas natives. They were imported from Europe. I never said anything close to that!
But if we only do Texas natives then tha's O.K. right?
Never mind the clover, we won't be doing those, only Texas native plants.
Here I go again. Yes but, not if the Texas native is a noxious weed to where its being sent. My point in all this is that I want to be a part of a solution to a better enviroment. Not part of the problem! In the past, well meaning people have been part of the problem. We must stop doing that!
I agree with you John, I definately do not want to cause a problem for anyone.
Can you propose how to handle it in a way that would be harmless?
That is the hardest part of trading plants and seeds accross borders. And, the reason why I do not take part in that activity. It has been said that each person is responsible for plants recieved on their end of the trade. However, that in my opinion, does not relive me of my responsibilty for not sending plants to an irresponsible person and I do not have the desire to do the neccessary research for each plant. So I don't take part in accross border trades.
What about a seed bank only for Texas ?
They don't even sell seeds for those here, as they do poorly here.
Mitch, did you make it to that special nursery on your trip to San Antonio?
They said that they were having wonderful bargains. I hope you got some good deals if you made it there.
Did not make it all the way to San Ann but almost! Had to pull a quickie and ended up with some great natives, among them -
Evergreen Sumac
Smooth Sumac
Soap Tree
Thornless Mesquite
a pink Salvia I cant think of the name
pigeon berry
and a few I have to find the name to!
All in all 6 gallons and 8 pints for 20 - they had tons of natives there but you really had to look. I was going to hook up with Htop but had to cut my trip very short. It was a great trip and soon the seeds will be in I hope our new seed bank if we can work out the detail!
Mitch
Forgot to mention - one thing I picked up read Blue Native Passionflower, anyone know what one is the Native Blue?
I am not sure, but I beleive the Passiflora incarnata could be considered blue, Ckeck out the vines thread.
Will do - put it in part shade. I thought I saw yours over by the compost in the shaded area right?
Yes I have one there and another on the south side fence, but neither one has bloomed this year, have no idea why.
frostweed-
I think some of the suggestions you got on the other forum sound like a good idea--at least the idea of a bank means deposits too. If folks are unable to make contributions in the form of seeds to the bank perhaps they could contribute money to defray costs or postage, small bubble envelopes etc.. A helping contribution is a helping contribution.
Red Oak which pigeonberry are you refering too? The one that pops to my mind is duranta erecta which I'm sure is not what you are talking about. It is not native to Texas. Excuse me if I've just made a stupid remark, I frequently do so!
I am not sure - They had it marked native, they are small with light pink flowers. It looks just like the ones htop placed in the pink flowers list. I did not see any latin names listed but I walked with the owner who was able to tell me what ones were native and not native.
I guess we have a lot of thinking to do before we embark on something that might seem simple on the surface, but there can be a lot unforseen circumstances.
We have to think it out very carefully before we start, and all suggestions will be taken into consideration. Besides, it will be a lot of work, but worth it , if a lot of good comes from it.
Sweat in the planning like in the garden, will bring the best rewards.
My idea would be to create a group that worked with our Daves Texas crew maybe even with a webpage of its own.
A pannel of three or four could moderate the group keeping the records and the seeds pure.
Members could add seeds to the pot in packets with - name, latin name, when collected, and their name
Once every six m you can pull out the same number of packets you added to the pot from a published list
After one year the seed would be purged and the excess seeds would be given to newbies and/or offered in pakets to the members with no choice of contents
When you wanted seed you would post on line and mail in the list along with a dollar for every 25 seed packets you pulled out to cover the postage and bubble env. Any extra left over would be placed aside and given once a year to a wildflower center or to DG Garden Angels.
I would see the following members over the bank
1. to moderate to list, keep nonTexans out so we do not spread seeds that could ruin some other area of the US migth need to also take "orders" and fill out notes to members etc
2. to keep the seeds and fill orders and handle the money
3. to keep the records of both 1 and 2 to make sure everything runs smooth and above board
4. could help with all the above!
Anyway I copied a lot of this from a seed bank for the Tulsa area (not natives) that my aunt is part of - this is far from perfect and still needs work if we use this pattern at all.
Just my idea - Mitch
3.
Mitch--This idea makes it impossible for folks like me who want to grow more natives to get involved if we don't have much to contribute in the way of seeds. If we could donate money or postage or something then you folks who contribute alot of seed could get yours for free but newer growers would have to give something else. The purpose is to get more folks to grow natives, right?
Debbie
See good point. Alright how about this - when you put your seeds in the pot you can donate your number of packets to the pot for anyone to pull out or keep them for your self. For example if you had 100 packets you put in but only wanted 25 you could let the other 75 go to whoever wanted them. The only thing is I just want to make sure people put in if they are going to pull out - there will be extra seeds in the bank for sure. Anyone else have a better idea on how to handle this? Keep the ideas and issues coming! Mitch
Thanks Mitch! In time we will be able to contribute more.
Debbie
Me to - I am just starting this year, but I hope to be able to add more in time. Frostweed is my wildflower angel - thanks to her I have most of what I have.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Well personally, my thought is this all getting way too in depth for me. The native or non-native, invasive or non-invasive can be overwhelming enough. I have no idea what's going on with this seed bank. Is this something that has been done elsewhere on Dave's, that I could go and see what was going on? Not that I'm going to be contributing but at least see what you are talking about? And what about a webpage of it's own? on Dave's?
No offense y'all, I'm just not enjoying this thread or even this forum much any more. I don't only grow natives, nor will I only grow natives. I LIKE what I have and don't know where 99% of it is from, other than the nursery.
I do love the things I have received from Josephine. These were things I had seen and looked for and to find someone willing to share was really a blessing, but I can't contribute much more. I'm not even learning much any more, just skimming thru long posts that take way too much time to read and understand. I'm still going to lurk, but you all might throw me, and some others, a bone every once in a while and just chat.
In all fairness--I think they know I don't grow just natives either. I've never once had these folks "slap my hands" about it. But I am interested in growing more of them. And the name of the thread is gardening with native plants and wildflowers.....
There are other threads on the forum too. I've also noticed I've asked you specific questions before or tried to start conversations with you on other threads and you sorta ignore me too. (does the vine and butterfly forums ring any bells?)
I think most of us have a mixture of native and non native plants... I have really enjoyed being on here and getting lots of info and chat about the natives we do grow. I am fuzzy on the whole invasive and such but trying to learn.. .. ..
I having a feeling this is all getting a little intense!! I personally feel swamped by it all, and am not so keen to follow tha thread as I was to start with. I'm not sure I am enjoying the Texas forum as I was before, it seems to have been taken over by all this.
Also, seeds need to be fresh to stand a good chance of germinating. If they are more than a year old a good proportion will fail. How will your 'bank' cope with that?
Carol
Dont know. Maybe we need to set the idea aside start a new thread and just have fun again...
My oh my... KK and Okus, you hit the nail on the head. I have been reading daily, but these long posts debating the merits of where a plant "came from" have me beaten down. I am sorry, the Forum is called Texas Gardening, not Natives, and frankly, the entire thread is being (IMO)hijacked by such.
As to "ignoring..." consider the fact that not everyone can comment on every post specifically, nor should they, but I think that we are all reading and learning. Sometimes we have info to share, and other times, we are here to learn... (IMO) I myself don't jump in and speak up every time, just to further the dialogue nonspecifially.
Like I said, I have been reading continuously, but felt that I had very little else to contribute anymore, since the entire forum has turned into very little else but Natives. I love the natives that I have, and will continue growing, sharing, learning and talking about them, but give us a break. I think that maybe...... (IMO) there could be another place set up to handle this, and a reference could be made to it thru Daves.... Seed Swap, Saving, Sharing, something.....
Can we just get back to TEXAS Gardening, and ALL that it encompasses!?
We are going to really think this idea over, and may be the seed bank will not be workable, then may be it will, in the meantime,let us just enjoy helping each other accomplish our goals for growing a beautiful garden, and do what we like best, grow beautiful plants and flowers. Josephine.