Beijing travel (with or without wheelchair!)

George from Valinda asked me ab. tourist-travel in Beijing for a person using a wheelchair in the ID forum, and I discovered myself waxing on, so am moving it here... seemed like the place.

Certainly we climbed LOTS of stairs while visiting "standard" attractions such as Forbidden City and Temple of Heaven, and it's something of a joke about "the good restaurants are all upstairs" (second floor)... but certainly I see people (local people) in wheelchairs in parks and "around" (along the Long Corridor of the Summer Palace comes to mind).

The older (old) people probably and usually have family/helpers to navigate the wheelchair. Do you travel alone?

We travelled with a sturdy but 82-y-o woman who mostly uses a 4-wheeled walker although gets along quite well with two canes or on the arm of an able friend. However, there was always SOMEONE there to help her negotiate curbs or entrance steps, i.e. lifting the walker (which folds) up or down. Also she has visited many times (grew up there, in fact) and therefore opted out of pretty much all of the temples/palaces and other "must-sees".

Here is a fairly recent first-person account of SOLO travel in wheelchair in Beijing.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1502/beijing04.htm

It is first-person so I can't deny her experience (and I'm glad it was as smooth as she found it!)... But I would like to say about Beijing taxi drivers: they are the most honest of any I've heard of. One returned to my hotel hours later to return a tote bag I had forgotten in the dark (I was already asleep and so groggy I didn't even think to tip him!). Her first and (first paragraph of) second tips are valid for any "full-size" person who is not fluent in Mandarin... her other points are opinion, on which my comments follow:

#1: I have never had a cabbie NOT have change; if you want it, stay in your seat until you get it, along with the receipt (if I'd kept the receipt from the above ride, I could have reached the driver with an appropriate tip!)... OTOH, rounding up to the nearest 5 or 10 yuan is probably not so extravagant -- 1 yuan = 12.5 cents -- esp. for a driver that has left his seat to help with your belongings in/out of trunk. However, you SHOULD try to have some small denominations at all times -- this is for the roaming vendors (those without a traceable location) selling maps/photo-books/postcards etc (incl. hats and "rolex" watches!) in TAM Square, the street in front of the Friendship Store, near entrances of most attractions, etc. -- Some of them will bargain down from 100Y to 50Y easily, then give you a counterfeit 50Y note as change for your 100Y! My $6 souvenir ;-(

#2: It would be VERY UNLIKELY for a cabbie to be intoxicated. I won't say it never happened, but Beijing (prob. PRC as a whole) is apparently VERY intolerant of DUI. I have never seen a driver take so much as a sip of beer with lunch. It occurs to me (having visited Beijing 7 times now as well as other parts of the country) that one of the prevalent accents of spoken Mandarin quite common in "the streets" of Beijing is particularly slurred,-- I've often thought speakers sounded like they had a mouthful of marbles! -- and some Asian faces have very deepset eyes that might appear half-closed... perhaps this page's author (in her five-day visit) mis-interpreted these characteristics. Of course, you should never get in a cab or any optional environment you are uneasy about. Just as

#3: taxi drivers are free to turn down a fare. Unless the driver told her in English he didn't want to be bothered with the chair, there are other reasons drivers look away and drive by (maybe they are xenophobic of red-haired white-skinned people, or don't want to deal with a person they presume with have poor command of spoken Mandarin) or even reject giving you a ride after speaking with you and hearing where you want to go (e.g. it is too close or too far or they'll be letting you out where they'll be unlikely to find another fare at just a time when many fares are available elsewhere). They are self-employed and it is their prerogative to try to choose the most profitable/least hassle jobs.

BTW, this last trip, we did encounter one or two female cab drivers, but it is one of only a few non-strength-related lines-of-work in which women are strongly under-represented (upper party and government positions is the other I have seen cited!).

I'm glad the writer observed some of the hutong life, but I'd question whether she visited too many of the hutongs-off-hutongs... they can be very uneven and cobble-y, and even if smooth are shared with bicycles and increasing numbers of cars! even alleys where a pedestrian has to step into a doorway to let a car (or truck!) pass! There are hutongs and hutongs, though -- Gold Fish Lane, where her hotel (and other hotels, one of which I've stayed at) was located is "Jin Yu Hutong" but is a several-lane city street with sidewalks both sides... other hutongs are barely sidewalks themselves! The one time I would ride in a pedicab (bicycle rickshaw) would be a hutong tour -- but have it arranged and paid at the hotel, even if more expensive, because my own experience with pedicab drivers is they are (shall we say) less courteous, less forthright, and apparently LESS REGULATED than the taxicab drivers! ... of course, the hutong tours are along somewhat larger alleys and are somewhat "choreographed" but interesting, and you could observe yourself areas that would or would not be accessible to return on your own.

Finally, our author's experience with planning her days around returning to the hotel for wheelchair-accessible bathroom breaks is not necessarily exclusive to disabled persons -- I have both travelled with and heard stories from a number of Western tourists who were so trepidatious (or appalled) at Chinese toilets, aka "Crouching Tigers" or squatters, that they would only go to the restroom at their hotel or another Western hotel... maybe that's why most of organized tours' meals are arranged to be at hotels!

Whew, that's all I can think of now! Except, I anticipate Beijing being more accessible as the 2008 Olympics approach, although I do not know what if any rules/laws are in place for that.

~'spin!~
postscript:
An item I have never seen mentioned in print or on the Web, is that in the center city of Beijing (inside the Second Ring Road for sure, possibly out to Third Ring or beyond, at least in some places?) all major streets have adaptations for sight-impaired people, namely a bright yellow "tiled" (or cast) strip a foot or wider in the sidewalk with raised ridges ab. one inch wide and 6"(?) long all along them... as you approach an intersection or other break in the sidewalk, the ridges change to cross-wise as a warning... I can't recall if the traffic signal's "Walk" status is audibly signalled (I am so used to them in California) or if the planners just figured there will always be plenty of fellow walkers and Walk/don't Walk will be obvious. After all, Beijing has a LOT of people!

Crystal, I travel with my wife and she often pushes me. I can walk but not for very long. Actually standing is a problem. I do negotiate steps but slowly and steps without handrails or a wall are extremely difficult.

I was in Spain a year ago and invariably the beautiful marble staircase were designed with the stairs ending a couple feet shy of the wall. That made it extremely difficult, plus that a Spanish man would not think of touching another man. Now in Morocco at least I was regularly helped up stairs.

How about other cities than Beijing?

This message was edited May 5, 2005 12:50 PM

Oh, you are pushing my memory now! I guess I need to be more observant and lock what I see into my recall system better!

Lessee... I do recall the internal flight between Xian and Guilin, we had to hop on an open trailer-type trolley, disembark way out on the tarmack, and climb steep narrow metal stairs into the airplane... at least they were narrow so easy to reach both hand-rails!

Shanghai and Hong Kong are known for being more modern, and ShenZhen (pron. ShenJen) is an entirely new city in the Economic Development Zone near Hong Kong... I'm sorry I can't speak much to wheelchair accessibility, I just wasn't *thinking* about it! Also not in any of those places for very long...

George! I just 'drew up' your picture and we met at Donna-SoCal's! This is probably not a surprise to you, but my brain had "merged" you and Strever! I'm not sure I knew (didn't remember) you using a 'chair -- that Sue must be pretty strong, you are a big larger than her!

Anyway... Cities other than above mentioned that I have visited:

Beidehe -- summer resort town well-east of Beijing... hard to get to unless special arrangement (own driver?); we went by rail.
Tianjin -- older port town, only really visited a couple shopping areas (one was moderniz-ing), don't remember anything particularly strenuous NOR any particular accommodation made for mobility-handicapped...
Xian -- LOTS of construction last time I was there... seems like a lot of things are spread out (terra-cotta soldiers, old imperial palace, ancient village, the mosque) so I mostly remember a lot of being bussed to the place of interest and then wandering around there. The soldiers are in modern buildings, but can't say I noticed ramps (yay or nay).
Guilin -- some modern hotels, leaving point for day-trips on the Li River. Seems like the boat we were on had a pretty wide and secure "gang plank" but you might have to do some hop-skipping when you get to --
Yangshuo -- smaller village, a little hilly leaving the dock-area as I recall; surprising in its Western influences (youth hostels, internet cafes, before they were very many other places, even) due to population of young-ish expats

We also visited Lanzhou, Dunhuang, Turpan, and Urumchi (Xinjiang Province, on the northern Silk Route), but on my first Chinese visit, nearly ten years ago, and I *really* don't remember much to tell you... the whole area is very un-Chinese (what we think of Chinese), much Muslim influence and the farther you go, the more so. Very interesting, just not what you might be expecting. In general I'd have to say, more remote & less developed, as far as accessibility issues go.

Hey! I just found something VERY INTERESTING!
http://www.disabilitytravel.com/independent/accessible-china.htm

The first trip sounds a very nice "overview" kind of tour: Shanghai (the garden there is Yu Yuan not Tuan, a typo) (and it is very nice, very classic Chinese), Beijing, Xi'an, Guilin including the boat ride to Yangshuo, and Hong Kong ...with someone having done the groundwork and (at least in theory!) making sure you don't get on that plane with the metal ladder entrance!

My DH wants me to point out that Beijing is MUCH BETTER (accessible-wise) than when he first visited in 1989... at which time he says he couldn't have imagined someone trying to see *anything* from a wheelchair! And as I said, I believe the next few years hold lots more improvement.

~'spin!~
Sorry I am late actually posting this! I left it in an open window while we went "out for a bite"!

Yes, we met at Donna's. No I was not using a wheel chair. I can manage walking through a small grocery store. I use the electric carts at Walmart. It is time on my feet that gets to me, rather than distance. Sue does pretty well pushing me. On a long walk on the Tarok (Marble) Gorge tour most of the people on the tour helped.

The site that you listed does not have prices. I will check into them. In the past when I checked on sites for handicapped their prices were very high. We spent just under $2500 total on this last trip.

Yes, I did think about that it probably was high-tariff (as a specialty tour) -- you have to click a link to request a price list (maybe snail mailed? I didn't click myself...)

Of course, it is ANY special-interest tour that goes high-dollar, check National Geographic packages! Etc. It is good if you can find an economic trip that happens to be small enough and composed of likable folks that everything functions well.

Our own last trip we pre-bought only the flight and room with buffet breakfast included. Beijing is not so difficult as it used to be, and also having been there 7&9 times my husband and I are more comfortable finding something of our own way and also picking local tours that are good value and not a rip-off or scam. Also four (of a group of 14 total) were fluent Mandarin speakers (if rusty),-- and I am brave or foolish enough to take my pidgin Chinese language to the streets!

~'spin!~