California Peony growers....Help Me!

I went to Stanford and we lived in Mountain View, then went to Hastings Law School and lived in South San Francisco. SSF had great gardening weather, but there were many days we did not see the sun. After spending a year in NYC we moved back to San Luis Obispo for thirty years and then recently to Arroyo Grande. The Stanford campus has great gardening weather, a little warmer in the summer and cooler in the winter and less fog. I looked at a lot of your pictures and your yard is wonderful. I started with a barren hillside, about half fill. There are oak trees on the surrounding lots but there were none on ours. Other than the front deck and a sidewalk around the house there is not a square foot of flat ground except at the very bottom.

Have you put your photos anywhere? I'd love to see them. Did you retire to Arroyo Grande?

DH is an emeritus professor at Stanford. He's a cryptographer. I was in the audit department at a big eight firm. I left there to work in the peace movement for awhile. Now I have health problems, but other than that my life is pretty perfect. We lived in Peekskill NY for one year and then Boston for two. 35 years here. The Luis Obispo area is sure beautiful. I'll bet that you are enjoying it.

Both you and Don moving into new environments.

I still manage some real estate, but with the cell phone it is flexible. I can work as much in the yard as I want. Since it is a young garden there is a lot to do. It doesn't matter where I stop, there is something to do at that spot.

I do not have any pictures posted. I have been meaning to get a new camera, but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe this week.

Both my wife and I grew up in San Luis Obispo. It was quite a change for us to move to the South County. I make the trip into San Luis most days of the week, so it isn't like we have really left, though

Well you get that camera (you'll find I'm a problem here :-) Bossy)

I can't wait to see the raw materials you're working with.

The Heteromeles arbutifolia, acacia redolens, ceanothus griseus horizontalis all took off right after being planted and I spend a great deal of time keeping them in check so all the other things will have room to grow. But they provide a nice backbone for the yard. It means I do not have to be very consistent with the rest of the stuff, which I am not. Mostly it is stuff that looks wild. I started out getting bigger things but lately I am settling in on small shrubs and herbacious perennials from Mediterranean climates. I like gray foliage and yellow flowers with red and purple accents and enough white flowers to brighten things up. Leucospermums do fantastic here so there are more and more of those. But almost anything seems to grow and if it doesn't, I get something else to replace it.

OK, I know everything there but Heteromeles arbutifolia. Does it have a common name? Get that camera! lol

As you know, I like everything. And gardening is always letting mother nature have it's way. Are you growing Dusty Miller? Lamb's ears? I love those gray plants. I plop intermediate Iris right into the middle of the Lamb's ears. It works really well.

H. arbutifolia--common name is toyon. Medium green leaves with serated edges, red berries in the winter, large shrub small tree.

Yes, I have several dusty millers, lambs ears, lotus, salvias, lavenders, proteas, artemesias, buddleias, melianthus, ozothamnus, dudleyas, arctostaphyllus, chrysothamnus, malactothamnus and so on. The native artemesia, californica was one of the few plants here and a wonderful colony has established itself.

I do love artemesia. I've put dusty miller in a place that it's too big for so I'll have to take it out and put artemesia in instead. That should work. Artemesia doesn't seem to be winter hardy here though. Any suggestions? It shouldn't get more than a foot high.

It has gotten rather out of hand. I need to spend about a month planting everything I have sitting in the driveway, on the empty lot next door and on the side of the house, assess what it looks like and then go from there. Everything is very young, so it seems like there is a lot of room. But even if you allow for a natural growing together, like it is out in the wild, I will approach maximum density in a few areas this summer. But I particularly like large herbaceous perennials--the big knifopha, anigozanthos, salvias, leonotus, and the big grasses instead of liking little rock garden type plants ( I like those too, just not as much). So there they all are, living happily so far, alongside and on top of each other.

I have gotten into the seed propagation thing, which is a lot of fun, but you can easily obtain way more seeds than you can possibly propagate in a reasonable period of time. Another challenge.
I got started on Dave's because of the propagation, never having done that before.

The weeds are big right now and need to be pulled. More drip needs to be added for the new plants, existing plants need to be tended to...

But it is great fun and I have learned an enormous amount in the last couple years, and I have been gardening most of my life.

You're in chaos. Lovely! Only possibility ahead. Except for nasturciums, I don't think that I've ever been able to get seed to grow. I've had some success with cuttings. And there are always the easy things like Dahlias and Iris. I've pretty much given up on seeds. But I have to put my energy where it's best used since it's limited. I'd love to hybridize Iris. Maybe in some other life.

This one, I've got my hands full and enjoying every minute of it right now.

hiya doss,

Fascinating reading!

We grow Warmblood sport horses, jumpers and dressage bred. Trakheners, Hanoverians, Oldenburgs, Selle Francais, Dutch Warmbloods, and American Warmbloods. On the sign outside the ranch are the wacky brands they torture the animals with. We don't brand. Berkeley grad here, Stanford wouldn't have me...lol.

oops, here's the brands.

The only nasturtiums that grew were on the edge of the pile from the chipper. Everywhere else they just croaked. I have not tried any iris, though I have grown them before. The gray-green leaf color would be good. I do dahlias in pots, and have a lot of seeds coming of the more wild looking ones. I do have a tree dahlia that put out one small shoot last year. It hasn't come up this year. But that is pretty typical of plants in this yard, it usually takes them a while to get established. The Carpenteria californica has great buds this year after just sitting there for a year. Along the edges of the walks and stairs I grow all kinds of little things.

Any horse photos Don? You have quite a collection. When did you get into the horse business?

I didn't even consider Stanford and my grandmother said that Berkeley was a "commie" place and she would disown me if I went there. I do believe that it was the only thing she ever said that about. This is the same grandmother who was totally in love with Liberace. Nobody ever burst her bubble though.

Iris would probably be very happy in Arroyo Grande, Chuck. They like their feet dry in the summer season after they're established.

I know how that is about plants. Allium never bloom until their third year here. I generally have good luck if I bypass the seed stage. Here are the nasturciums just waiting to wander through the Iris.

My older brother and uncle went there. I never really considered any other place. It was much easier to get in and it was a lot cheaper. All three of my children went to UC schools.

Just haven't gotten around to the iris. I have been trying to get more of the basic plants in. I see iris as fillers, things to make it all work after the groundwork has been laid. To edit the view more or less. Much like the smaller plants, their time will come. If this seed thing works out, most of the small stuff will be seed generated. I have a hard time paying a lot for a plant that is never gunna get very big.

rotf @ commie place.

That cracks me up.

Pam is the one in the horse business, I'm just a horse feeder and admirer of her breeding skills. I mostly build and repair fences or other things that need repairing from horse shenanigans.

As for Cal as opposed to Stanford, both are world class schools. I was/ am a science nerd and Stanford had a rather limited post-grad curriculum and I was lucky to have three Nobel laureates as advisors on my thesis committee. Commies or not, Cal grads are people too....rotf. I'll stay clear of your mom unless it's halloween and I dress as Liberace...lol.

Have posted a ton of pics of horses at Farm Life forum. Yet here is a pic of our newest addition. Her name is Damiana and she'll be three weeks old on Saturday. She is a Trakehner (her warmblood breed), her mom, the white one is the daughter of a PanAm games medalist. Her dad's name is Hohenstein, he's a very famous horse in Europe. The swimmers came frozen from Germany...lol.

Pam is very proud of this one, as she should be.

Play is important, even to the horse's owned by "The Friends of Fidel"....lol.

Now, remember it was my grandmother who was a red-hater, not me. I could never figure it out. And when I was older and did figure it out, boy, I sure knew what side the propaganda foot was on - and it wasn't just on one side. The old spin has been with us forever. (00Ps) We are getting close to politics here, bad, bad doss.

Your new filly is just so full of glee - or oats. What a delightful thing to watch. Thanks for the photo. Have you run into laurief? She does horses and Iris.

http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/index.html

As to Berkeley, DH had a lot of wonderful colleagues there. He was lucky enough to be a research fellow so we had a whole $3,000 to live on for the year when we were both in school. Ah, those were the days. My favorite nerd story about him is that in the third grade he wanted to be an explorer but he knew that he couldn't. He had to be a scientist. So he became an explorer and scientist at the same time. It has been a rollercoaster all the way. His field is crazy.

So you fix fences and feed horses. How lovely that the two of you can work together. What a huge job. It seems as if you're having fun though. That's the best.




This message was edited Apr 14, 2005 2:59 PM

I guess my sympathies are pretty evenly divided between Berkeley and Stanford. My son used to be a law professor at Boalt, and my ex daughter in law taught geology at Stanford. So, I had to like both, or at least keep very quiet about any preferences I might otherwise have had. Hehehe.

LOL at doss. "Have you run into laurief? She does horses and iris" Seriously tho, I have no idea how much she knows about horses, but she sure does know her iris. AND she is generous about helping those of us who need her expertise.

Don, any sign of a little one yet?

hiya Sharvis,

Nope, I think she's holding on for a Taurus or something...lol. We aren't sleeping much and she's having a ball keeping us guessing. I'm considering sending her back to Germany...lol.

I've been working on some tree peonies for a few years and finally got some lovely blooms this year. Under a pine and a deciduous magnolia, but not complete shade. They are planted in a mound, so good drainage seems to be helping.
Near the waterfall from the pond, so the humidity is probably a plus.
3 or maybe 4 years and not a tremendous amount of height. (maximum 2 feet so far, but two glorious flowers this year).
I planted another from the same supplier in a different location. A bit more sun, less drainage, but equal humidity and it has yet to reproduce a flower. Still living is as good as it gets.
ns

hiya nancysaltsman,

nice to meet you!

thanks for your post. We've been on this subject for a while with little actual advise other than patience, which is no problem. Mine are still growing (2nd year in the garden) and they do have afternoon shade here. Livermore's climate is not much different than it is down here. Hot summers, cold winters. But we have the worst domestic water in the known universe...lol. So I'm a little worried about chlorine sclerosis and eventual mineral death. I've got so much mulch/ compost around them the humidity is actually around 60% all day at 24" above ground level. So from a perspective of humidity I think I'm okay. My real issue is getting advise from gardeners that are also dealing with crappy irrigation water, and how they cultivate tree peonies with such challenges. I would love to see pics of your plants here on this thread.

Thanks for your post,
Be well,
Don

Zone9/10 not a good place for peonies. I guess you can't grow everything, though it is tempting to try. It did freeze here in 1989/90, but that is about the last time. One of my brothers lives in New Jersey, they grow like weeds there.

lol Chuck,

You haven't been to Temecula wine country in February. It gets down to the low 20's every night. We can grow bloody cherries here!..lol. The heat, however, as you say, could be a problem in that there is little humidity at all. But these are placed in an area of afternoon shade and humidity is pretty stable because of the compost/ mulch. I did my undergrad at Poly so I know Arroyo Grande pretty well. You guys have a fabulous climate for so many things. We, on the other hand, have a hostile environment and to compound the problem our water just plain sucks. Oh yeah, did I mention I'm in zone denial?..lol.

Best,
Don

I lived in South San Francisco for three years. I do not think we ever had a day where the sun was out from sun up to sun down. Fabulous growing weather for certain things though. Not quite as bad as Pacifica, though.

Lol, I love the bay area. What did Twain say? "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in SF?" not sure it was Twain, but I think I got it right. Pacifica is a little more marine influenced than I'm used to any more. Out here we get no marine layer, no moisture, no relief from what could only be described as 'hostile' heat in the summer.

After three days without the fog, I start getting antsy, have to water the pots too much. Driving along the ocean today it was a deep blue with whitecaps and a very hard horizon. A little fog hanging way out there.

Down here, the horizon is a lovely shade of brown and dodging medical waste is the favorite pastime of beach-goers...lol. Not to mention the novelty of creeks flowing with cigarette butts and foam cups...It's a sight for waxing romantic about the Cuyahoga River burning and rafts made of discarded tires on the Anacostia River....lol. Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn would be jealous of all the other stuff floating downstream..

A toast to the aesthetics of storm drain runoff.

Come on Don, it is not that bad, despite what the LAT says. Sometimes when the traffic is real bad we go out and take I15 to San Diego. The rugged, sage covered hillsides are beautiful. The ocean water in the southland is warm, may be polluted, but warm. Our ocean water is a good 5 degrees cooler. Takes about five minutes to get numb and then it is OK.

How fun is describing a threatened environment if one cannot take a bit of artistic license (aka; gross exaggeration)? I'm a 4th generation native southern Californian. We actually love it down here up until the point we get stuck in traffic behind some FU...V that has a bumper sticker declaring their automobile's love for foreign oil...lol. Aw heck, I'm sure folks don't like it much behind our diesel when we have horses in tow. A career can be made from being a pot and calling the kettle black...lol.

Be well,
Don

drdon, I'm a fourth generation southern Californian too. Transplanted north now. And my Peony has 6 big buds on it. I'm wondering what I'm thinking fighting with Peonies with all of the Bearded Iris blooming right now - and Dahlias and Clematis and Watsonia, Hydrangeas etc. that are so happy here. It's funny how you want to grow what you don't have.

But I do miss the big old flouncy fuschias that my grandmother grew in her garden. I can't grow those here anymore without systemics for Fuschia Mite so I grow the resistant cultivars.

hiya doss,

We had an 8ft Voodoo planted in the ground at our old place. It was fabulous. Too dry here for them, and that's one plant I'm not going to try. Love em, but those and tuberous begonias are just out of the question here. I'm sure there's someone out there that will try, but I'm gonna stick with the challenges I've got already (gardening....my other issues are for another thread...lol.).

Got to get back to work.

take care,
Don

Tuberous Begonias grow like weeds here. As long as the snails don't get them that is. It's probably too dry where you live -- and I don't know that they love toxic water. But you could sure grow a lot of louisiana Iris in that fountain (pool, pond?)! Now an 8 foot Voodoo plant I never considered. Where have I been (LOL)?

I am fighting the snails over Hosta though. I'm winning too. There's enough Iron in my soil that I'm surprised it doesn't rust. :-)

I'm fighting some Lorapetulum. Funny, they are such nice plants but their leaves get very sticky when they fall, kind of like velcro. My fluffly little dogs are always dragging them in. That and Redwood droppings. Those are more like fishhooks. Don't know how I got on this subject - just random, I guess.

Voodoo was my favorite fuschia, today we have one. Fuschia thymifolia collected some seed a couple of years ago down in Mexico and sprouted six. Of those six plants, one survived the summer in the shade. Just too bloody hot.

We used to grow so many tuberous begonias. Weidner's gardens (a begonia Mecca) was just down the road about three miles, Stubb's fuschia nursery was even closer. I sometimes miss that old Voodoo plant. But now I am growing Peonies, so there's a trade off.

I think that I do know that fuschia. I went looking for it. I think that there's a clinker in the plantfiles. Only one photo is wrong. I also found a lot of references to it dying and a lot of "voodoodreads" in fuschia. :-)

You have no fuschia mites in Southern California? I'm dying of jealousy. I lost some pretty big ones to it in the early invasion and then gave up.

You'll love it - I bought some 'organic' planting mix because it was on sale. It took my car an entire week to air out. I thought of you. I'll enjoy every minute playing in it.

Sometimes cutting off the infected stems and continuing to cut and keeping your equipment clean will get rid of them. But most of the time they are goners and you need to get rid of them before your other ones get them. I like the big honking fuschias which mostly are not bothered by the mite. Key is to examine any fuchsia you are going to buy and stay away from the infected ones.

lol, yep, that's me. I love the smell of compost in the morning! Smells like...naw not gonna go there...lol.

No fuschia mites to speak of, but incredible problems with red spider and rust mites.

Oh, yes. The spider mites love my Redwood trees. And my Hardenbergia. Weird that it's so prone to collect them. I'm thinking about ripping the Hardenbergia out. The redwood trees have lived with them for years, but the Hardenbergia always looks pretty bad except when it's blooming. No rust mites. That's good. I have Iris leaf spot this year because of the rain though. This is not a good thing.

We get red spider really bad here in late August on our plums, I just let them live...by then we've already eaten the plums...lol.

Our biggest pest problems have four legs and bark, and sleep at the foot of our bed. Kuki hates roses, Dahlia eats my water lilies and lotus, Toby tears apart the Tecoma stans, and Scamp, well he just pees on everything...lol.