companies continue selling bad product?

So we all know that the Garden Watchdog is a truely wonderful thing. What I can't figure out is why some of these companies are still in business. I would think anybody with a 90% negative rating would just shrivel up and die (like the plants they send). I notice that most of the comments for these companies say "I wish I'd found you before I ordered", so is it just that new people get taken by these companies year after year? If they are only sending dead stuff, how can they continue to print all these catalogs that fill my mailbox daily? And why do they bother? It seems like such a hassle to mail dead plants! Anybody know?

It's a multi-billion dollar business and DG is up to what, 143,000 subscribers.

I'd say the bad companies will stay in business but just won't be getting money from us. There's millions of people out there who will continue to be taken by to-good-to-be-true advertising or never read the fine print.

Mmmmm, well, to be clear - we don't have 143K paid subscribers. (We do have 143K members ;o)

We also get 250,000 to 750,000 unique visitors (including registered users) each month - many of those users come to access PlantFiles; many others to the Watchdog.

The Watchdog is not quite four years old (the PBM-FAQ was around for 7 years before that) and in the past year we've seen an increased effect on the mailorder industry - if the number of complaints from negatively-rated nurseries is an accurate barometer. (Some of them are VERY upset and complain that we are affecting their business.)

We see a fair number of "wish I had seen" comments - but we're also getting more and more "thank goodness I saw you first" notes. (Most of those don't become comments because they didn't actually order from the company.)

My guess is the next year will see the GWD bring a lot more pressure to bear on some of the worst businesses. That's good for the buying public, but it comes at a price - there is a nearly constant threat of lawsuit that goes hand-in-hand with having a public, accessible forum like the GWD. Hopefully the processes and reasoning Dave has successfully employed up to this point will continue to thwart those threats.

I think it is high time that someone holds companies that send out puny, broken, unhealthy and dead seeds and plants accountable! I feel bad for Dave and DG that they are responsible BUT there is no one else minding the stores! For years, companies have preyed on people that spend their hard earned and at times, money they don't really have, incomes to get a few nice plants. For once we have a place to check out these companies and I think that burns the buns of them some times. I don't think anyone wants less than a good deal, nor do they want to receive anything unhealthy. I think companies are angry that we can thumb our noses at them, spend a bit more or wait a bit longer and get what we REALLY wanted. I guess it is not good for their business but it IS good for our checkbooks :) Go DG!!

Bad comments don't necessarily mean bad business either. Reading both sides of the story helps. If a company has complaints, I would give it a chance depending on their responses to those complaints. Maybe not for a coop, but for a personal order. I think people can tell the difference when a company is just making excuses, or if, after reading responses to a complaint, it sounds like the customer had a bad day, or something was missing from communication. I also like being able to check other comments a user left. I think most people can tell when something rings true or not.

I totally agree with that. I have an order in now with Nature Hills Nursery. Their ratings are odd, but I feel confidant having spoken with them and I am looking forward to receiving the plants.

Thanks for the info Terry. It will be very interesting to watch what happens as Dave's becomes more well known. I hope we can get rid of the "dead wood" companies so the good ones can thrive.

Can't type worth a ding this morning:)

This message was edited Mar 19, 2005 8:47 AM

Well, if you think about it, there is a corollary with DGW and a site like ebay. Sellers are given ratings based on the quality of their merchandise and service. A smart buyer won't be buying from someone with a poor or negative rating. No should she/he, imo.
Let the buyer beware! It's not really a new concept. It only makes sense to spend our good money if we expect to receive what is advertised, in a timely fashion.

Cheryl raises an excellent point. In fairness to companies we do several things:

1) For the past year or so, we have required that users respond to a company's request for information - order #, etc. That helps cut down on bogus false claims (It's very rare, but they do occasionally happen.)

2) From the launch of the Watchdog, we have encouraged companies to designate a representative (registered user) who recieves notifications whenever a customer leaves feedback. That way, they don't have to remember to visit the Watchdog and see if there's any new feedback, and it reduces the risk that a negative comment will sit unnoticed for months at a time.

3) Company reps can email the user (many do) and try to make things right, get more information, or otherwise correct the situation.

4) If all else fails, the company can post a rebuttal/response. It's as easy for them as leaving feedback is for any registered user. Some companies do a very good job with this feature, some seem to make matters worse when they do.

Like Cheryl, I'm definitely interested in hearing "both sides of the story" - a negative comment that has a "rest of the story" explaining why the customer's request was unreasonable, or demonstrating the customer's received a refund or new plants, etc. - I'll most likely discount the negative comment - especially if it's the only one in a sea of glowing positives.

That is so of strange though.

Last year 4 of us in Winnipeg (4 that I know about) had major probs. with somebody who has only glowing accounts on both GW and Watch Dog. So, .... I haven'st said anything. This year I ordered some seeds, -never again plants - and there was only two prob with the wrong seed pkt being sent .... So, guess it works both ways. One prob. was wrong seed being sent (being replaced) and the other was very dried out seed that broke up. Maybe last years seed. Who knows.

So you can never tell.
Inanda

inanda, the feedback in the Watchdog is only as good as the people who bother to provide it. If no one says anything about a problem, then no one else will benefit from your experience. (And conversely, if no one says a company is reputable, the lack of feedback can cause others to bypass them in favor of companies with feedback.)

Terry, Inanda has a point. It's intimidating to swim against the tide. I've recently had an unequivocally negative experience with a "Top 30" company with nothing but rave reviews on the Watchdog page. Even though I've been gardening for longer than many nursery owners have been alive, I still am inclined to blame myself under these circumstances, and also to feel that no one will believe my story anyway in view of all the other glowing reports, so I'm procrastinating instead of sharing my negative opinion. After all, maybe these plants are slow starters. Maybe an e-mail glitch kept the proprietor from responding to my complaint. Maybe I handled the plants the wrong way. Maybe, maybe, maybe.... You see, it's easy to find an excuse not to post criticism.

This is for Zuzu, especially. Please feel free to post your experiences honestly and accurately on GWD. That's what it's there for. I also hesitated to post anything negative about a nursery that does provide some *great* plants, but desperately needs help in many *other* areas of their online business. I like to think a reputable business never stops growing and improving their customer service, and would *want* to use the critique and feedback on GWD to do so. Noone's perfect, no company is perfect, and no consumer is perfect. But if I know what to expect going in, I won't have any surprises. Maybe what one consumer finds appalling, another finds acceptable. Swimming against the tide can be a bit uncomfortable, but I'm not going to sugarcoat my experiences. On the other hand, I also give credit where credit is due.

A huge ditto what Liila said - I couldn't have said it any better, nor can I think of anything to add to it. ;o)

One factor I look at while at GWD when evaluating is size of the operation.
The larger companies do little or no actual plant 'growing' themselves.
They bid out orders to different wholesale nurseries.
THEN the quality of the plants is in their hands.
Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

Watch the trends.
Sometimes a company will go thru a bad period then rebound.
A Negative trend that turns, and stays, Positive takes a long time %wise to turn around.

I order a lot from Wayside especially during their sales so will use them as an example.
They currently have an overall 64% positive rating.
During the last 12 months that rating is approximately 67% w/ 11% neutral and 22%.
Look at the negatives. Many have been resolved by refunds or credits.

Plants are living things. Shipping is VERY chancy.
I do it for a living and no major package shipping company out there is kind to the packages.
Just as kind as they can get away w/ and still maximize profit.
So if a plant dies or is damaged in shipping Wayside gets the blame.
If they have no replacement and issue a credit they get a Negative or at best a Neutral.

Look for edits. WAS anything resolved?
If a Neutral or Negative upgrades that means the customer got good service.
If a Positive turns to Negative or Neutral start asking why.

Look at the poster. Have they been here a while and still active or did they just get on to Troll and then split.

Poor Customer service issues are usually NOT shipping department issues.
There is NO excuse for bad service in CS and those issues should be brought to the attention of the Management. Write a letter not an email.

Look at your shipping costs. (This sometimes causes a Positive to turn Neutral)
I order from a few places w/ what seems to be astronomical shipping costs.
But when the plant gets here being run over by a truck couldn't have hurt it.
Good Boxes are quite pricey. So I pay and get good shipping.
Course there are those that charge high shipping and still ship poorly.

Don't let what seems to be an iffy rating scare you off.
Look at ALL the factors before running away.
GWD gives you GREAT tools to research before you buy. Use them.

Lastly on what Terry and others said above Rate! Rate! Rate!
It's human nature to [complain] about the bad things.
We get calls every week at our place complaining.
We rarely get calls from the other 99% saying good job.
What we get is called reordering.
If you order year after year from a place tell GWD.
Just because you told GWD two years ago you had a Positive don't hesitate to Edit and revise. People really need to know you're still happy w/ them.

For the record I don't work for a company on Watchdeg. I'm in Restaurant Supply.

Sorry to go on soooo long.
Ric (Off to practice what I preached and update and add more Ratings. LOL!)

The guy finally responded to my sixth (!) e-mail request for assistance and solved the problem to my satisfaction, so I won't feel justified in complaining unless his solution doesn't pan out. In that case, you will see a negative comment join the 80+ positive comments on his page. Incidentally, that sixth e-mail was the first in which I mentioned that I belong to DG and regularly report my experiences in Watchdog.