On foot and with a reasonable path I'd prolly be ok.....just hate the straight up on one side, very narrow path, and the mile or two drop on the other side. :O
Prairie Sentinals for Patischell
Quoting:
Trans Canada Trail -
Kettle Valley Railway Trail
Christina Lake
The Kettle Valley Railway (KVR) has become an international destination for biking enthusiasts from around the world. The recent fires in the Myra Canyon which destroyed most of the original trestles are a tragedy, but cyclists need not be disappointed as there are many other spectacular sections of the KVR to explore east of the Myra.
A popular two-hour route begins at Eholt, now a ghost town west of Grand Forks, and descends along the beautiful North Fork Valley, with great vistas of farmlands and two short tunnels.
Here are photos of our trestles at Chrisitna Lake.
I remember my Dad pointing them out to me when we were at Christina Lake.......thank you for posting the lovely pics Donna! Ü
I also notice that they have safety railings now! ;)
Just talking to Dad on the phone right now and he said that the steepness of the slope caused the old trains to runaway (modern brakes will now hold a train to a slower speed)....a curve on track may have had a posted speed of 30 mph. A runaway train would hit a curve at over 50 miles per hour and would leave the tracks and go doooooooown!
The Kettle Hut wasn't built to have the strong large engines so smaller less powerful engines had to do that run.
Dad said Great Grandfather had the run for 10 years.......he was very relieved to be posted back on the prairies.
This message was edited Jan 27, 2005 5:49 PM
I bet. Can you just imagine how much he would have enjoyed working on the old CPR line running through the Rockies! Our mountains pale in comparison to those monsters. A lot of men lost their lives building that one. And yes, they all have nice handrails now. I still have to focus straight ahead when crossing them on my bike though. The handrails are of no use to you then. :D
I love this railroading thread! Pam, I work in the yards- regular hours. You and I both have a family history rich in CPR memories. I wonder what percentage of Moose Jawvians (Sp)do. Probably quite a few.
Even to this day there is a huge difference in train handling in regards to Mountains verses Prairies. They say the mountain folk are the "Real Engineers"
The job I work is called 'a beltpack yard' we have no engineer on the unit, we drive the train from the ground with a remote control device- Scary stuff, but it saved the CPR big money by getting rid of the man on the unit. Instead of three man crew we are down to two. The jury is still out on if we are all going to have abdominal cancers due to the increased radiation from our beltpack devices! Guess we all will find out in another 20 years.
If I can think of anything else exciting about it I will post.
That's so interesting Joelle. I didn't know that trains are being run by remore control. I haven't met any at any crossing yet, and if I had seen a "headless" engine, I probably would have died! Or am I to assume that these personless engines are just in the "Yards"?
For now they are, but look out in the future. One theory is that on 'the road' there will be no conductor and the engineman will drive the train conventionally from town to town. When he gets to a grain terminal(elevator) he will strap on his beltpack and 'work the customer' from the ground. Then get on the engine and drive on to the next one. It is all very stressful on us- to many things to think about when handling all that heavy dangerous stuff.
Sounds like the Railroad industry is suffering like all the others with this new age of "cutbacks" and "shortcuts" all to save the company money. Of course, the worker has an increase in harder tasks and no extra compensation. Bummer isn't it?
Exactly, all we gained was just shy of $6 a day, for all the added stress! And the company saved $200, plus benfits.
That's really fascinating Joelle.......I had no idea how much times have changed. I too would be very worried about your belt!! I've heard about how much they've cut manpower there......really cutting corners.. :S
My mother's father was also an engineer here, he worked as an engineer during the mid twenties but when the dirty thirties came he was lucky to find anything to do in the yard. My Grandmother had a copy of his run diary........the thirties had months of no work. He was one of the men that was hired to make our Crescent Park, where the library is situated, look the way it does now.
My Dad's other Grandfather helped build the rails across the country. He started working at it down east and eventually bought a team of horses that he used to lay a lot of rail bed and line across southern Saskatchewan. He stopped before the mountains.....smart man!
This message was edited Jan 30, 2005 2:50 AM
Pam, you need to write a Moose Jaw Memories book, you have a keen memory, great connections and many stories to tell. A true historian. You should record it all!
Thanks for all the interesting information and great pictures.
I have a father with a great memory and who loves to tell stories......my working in archives also helps.
This message was edited Jan 28, 2005 3:24 PM
Thank you, I book marked it for a quite read some night.
Here it is, 6:30am and I'm into this thread, hook, line and choo choo. This is fascinating! thankyou, ladies! I remember taking the first trip back to Sask. to visit my husband's family, of which there were many, at that time, and driving around in our Chevy Impala, taking in the sights! Firstly, the Monarchs, or Sentinels, as you call them, were dotted along the highways, and the small towns..........even the school he went to, was used for holding grain. In this southerly Eastern part of the province, small ghost towns would appear now and then! Gave you the feeling of being in a movie.............. Eeerie........Gettin back to the Kettle Valley Rlrd........are these not the wooden trestles that were consumed by fire last summer? E
Yes those are the ones that were burnt Elaine.
Ghost towns are springing up with much more frequency now. :(
Only six were burned, Elaine. The Okanagan fires came close to another twelve, but they were saved. They are being rebuilt.
This is absolutely the BEST thread that ever was!!!! What a great way to learn about the history of another country.
I never met a train I didn't love, and one of the great thrills of my life was riding the train from Skagway up to the Canadian border. That last picture looks just like the bridges we crossed.
Bravo, Canadians, you do your country proud!!
Pati
Hi Pati, and everyone else! I just came across this thread and read it from beginning to end - I agree, it's the BEST! Pam and Glenda, thanks so much for all the excellent elevator photos. And Joelle, I don't know how I missed the fact that you work in a train yard, but thanks for telling us more about it. It sure is interesting. Boy, I really miss my native flatlands at a time like this. And the trainyard & historical info is so interesting, and important.
Pam, I had an elevator platform ride once too, at a family reunion in Lanigan...it was one of those platforms where you stand on it and you have to pull on the rope or cable to haul yourself up to the top of the elevator. You're right - it's scary!!! But what a view from the top.
When I was in Churchill, MB for a summer vacation a few years ago, I took a tour of the inside of their grain terminals - very, very interesting. I recommend it if you happen to be there on a polar bear quest or whatever. There's a photo of the terminal at this link, 2nd row, middle photo. Also some great polar bear photos on pp. 6 & 8 of this site!
http://www.arcticcircle.ca/churchill2000/page_09.htm
Like most Canadians, or westerners even more so, I have train & elevator connections too. My maternal grandfather was a doctor in the military during WWII, and he rode the 'troop trains' back & forth from one end of the country to the other, treating returning soldiers as they were on their way home. My paternal grandfather farmed at Esk, Saskatchewan, where there was of course a wonderful elevator and thriving community. Here's a photo of the hamlet now...no elevator and no services, according to the sign.
http://www.esk.ca/
DH's father was a railway man for many years, and they lived all across the country as kids.
When I left home to go to university, I took the train from Brandon to Ottawa - I had never been east of Manitoba before. I remember sitting up all night in the bubble car (dome car), and watching the sun rise over Lake Superior for the first time.... it's a wonderful way to see the country & move into a new phase of your life.
The provincial museum of Alberta had a great exhibit on grain elevators a few years back, and fortunately there seems to be a lot of interest on the topic these days. http://www.ingliselevators.com/
~Shannon
I don't know if you all have seen this, but these are high tech polar bears! *grin*
Pati
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/480229/
Interesting how many turns a thread can take Shannon. The grandfather that brought the settlers out had a daughter that was a nurse in World War II. She served on the ships and nursed the wounded soldiers that were brought back home, later on she accompanied the war brides when they came over to the *new* country. They might have run into each other.
The link to Esk is a prime example of what happens to a community once the elevator (and the taxes it paid) disappear.
I decided to make a library display on the elevators after starting this thread and while pulling material for it I found the NFB (National Film Board) video Death of a Skyline. Here's a bit of a write up on it: http://www.onf.ca/pr/scripts/display_pr.pl?id=12817&lang=us&view=gps_pr_arch_v
Turns out that there used to be about 6,000 elevators across the prairies and the first one was erected in Niverville, Manitoba. There are now only a couple hundred left and the wrecking crews and wood scavengers are eagerly awaiting demolition orders on the few that are remaining. :(
This bare bones chronological time line covers the early history of what was (and is) such an integral part of western prairie life:
Quoting:
1876
First shipment of western Canadian wheat from Manitoba to Toronto. 857 bushels of Red Fife are put on a steamer and sent up the Red River to St. Paul, then by rail to Toronto.
1878
First shipment of prairie wheat from Manitoba to Britain. Grain is shipped from Winnipeg via the Red River for transit through the United States.
1878
First irrigation ditch in the NWT is constructed by John Glenn. He takes water from Fish creek, in the Calgary area to irrigate about 20 acres of land. The Alberta Railway and Irrigation Company undertake the first large irrigation development before the turn of the century.
1879
First known Canadian grain elevating structure constructed at Niverville, Manitoba. It is round. It is used until 1902, dismantled in 1923 by Hilaire Robidoux and hauled via horse drawn sleigh in wintertime to their homestead, 7 miles south in Otterburne. A barn is built with the wood and still stands in 2001.
1880
Construction of a transcontinental railway begins.
1880
Disappearance of practically all the buffalo from the western plain. Strange as it may seem, their disappearance gives grain growing its first impetus.
1881
An influential British journal, Truth, publishes, "Canadian Pacific, if it is ever finished, will run through a country about as forbidding as any on earth… British Columbia is not worth keeping. It should never have been inhabited at all…, in Manitoba those who are not frozen to death are often maimed for life by frostbites. Ontario is poor and crushed with debt. It is certain to go over to the States and when that day comes the Dominion will disappear.
1881
Over 100 miles of rail completed in British Columbia.
1881
First familiar angular designed Elevator constructed at Gretna, Manitoba by Ogilvie Milling Company, Canada’s first Elevator Line Company.
1881
Census reveals 65,954 people in Manitoba. Winnipeg has a population of 7985, NWT (now Alberta and Saskatchewan) has 5800 whites and Métis combined and 49,472 Native Indians.
1881
August 26 First train into Winnipeg over the Red River Bridge.
1881
First twine binder was used in Manitoba.
1882
January 1 William Cornelius Van Horne is appointed General Manager of the CPR. He succeeded in laying 480 miles of track across the prairies in the summer of 1882.
1883
Advancing rapidly, the CP line extends all the way from Regina, through Winnipeg, and on to Fort William at the head of Lake Superior, providing an all-Canadian route for the movement of prairie grain exports to eastern and world markets. August 10, the first train reaches Calgary.
1883
James Richardson, a grain Dealer founded in 1957, shipped the first wheat to Britain via the Canadian route through the lakehead to Buffalo for eventual shipment overseas. Grain is loaded out by cart and wheelbarrow to the steam barge "Erin" and Erin carries its historic load down the lakes to Buffalo.
1884
"The King", Canada’s first terminal (port) elevator is completed by the CPR. It could house 350,000 bushels and greatly facilitated lake shipment of grain.
1884
A group of white and Métis settlers invite Louis Riel to negotiate on their behalf with the federal government.
1885
Government troops put down the Northwest rebellion; Riel surrenders, is convicted of treason and is hanged.
1885
May 16 The last spike on the Lake Superior section of the CPR. November 7 A pleasant spot in Eagle Pass, named Craigellachie, BC, is chosen for the historic joining of rails. The last spike is driven. 2,893 miles of unbroken rail between Montreal and the Pacific coast is accomplished.
1885
November 8 The CPR special train arrives at Port Moody at Pacific Tidewater., the first railway train ever to travel across Canada from sea to sea.
1885
First ever export of flour from western Canada – to Scotland.
1885-06
More or less by accident, the practice of Summer Fallowing begins. Some farmers of the Indian Head and Qu’appelle districts are assigned transport duty with the force sent out to suppress the Rebellion of 1885. They return too late to put in the crops. During the remaining summer they tilled their land and the next year’s harvest yields an additional 23 bushels to the acre.
1887
Treaty No. 7 is signed. This treaty sends most all natives to reserves in what is now Alberta.
1887
Lake of the Woods Milling Company is formed; second elevator line company.
1887
Formation of Winnipeg Grain Exchange. 4 million bushels of grain are inspected in Winnipeg.
1889
June 3 The first CP train arrives at St. John, New Brunswick from Montreal marking the real completion of the Canadian Pacific railway as a coast to coast railway.
1890
Country Elevators and 103 Warehouses stand in the three prairie provinces with a total storage capacity of 4.2 millions of bushels. Manitoba-128; Saskatchewan-65; Alberta-none.
1890
Three Terminal Elevators are built at the Head of the Lakes with a total storage capacity of over three million bushels.
1890
Homesteaders occupy 8.1 million acres in the prairie.
1898
Until 1898, the CPR encourage the switch from warehouses to elevators through its "Standard Elevator" policy. Unable to finance construction of its own line of Elevators, but anxious to realize the significant benefits in boxcar turn around that Elevators made possible, the railway offered a free rail site to anyone prepared to build a ‘standard’ elevator of not less than 25,000 bushel capacity, powered by a steam or gasoline engine and equipped with a grain cleaner. The railway further undertakes to protect the Elevator Company by not allowing loading from flat warehouses or farm wagons. This is strongly opposed and ultimately becomes the beginning of the farmer cooperative movement. Legislation soon changes, demanding the railways supply loading platforms for farmers to load railcars.
1890
Buffalo bone industry ends.
1891
Moose Jaw farmers see a threshing tractor that would burn straw and move by its own power.
1899
January 13 The Canadian National Railway is formed by the amalgamation of 2 western lines. By 1915 the system is comprised of 9,362 miles of trackage.
1899
June 18 The CPR line from Lethbridge through Crows Nest Pass to Kootenay Landing is open for traffic. This is built with subsidies afforded by the Crows Nest Pass Agreement of 1897, which sets fixed rates on grain traffic.
1900
421 Country Elevators and 97 warehouses stand with a storage capacity of 14 millions of bushels. Manitoba-469; Saskatchewan-93; Alberta-18.
The death of the Crows Nest Pass Agreement was also the beginning of the end for the elevators.
This message was edited Jan 29, 2005 12:26 PM
Pam, thanks so much for sharing all this fascinating information. The NFB film looks terrific, and I am going to recommend it to some teacher friends --we don't hear a lot about prairie history in B.C. and that is a big mistake, IMHO.
I can order some NFB material from the library, and I will see if they can get me that one.
I agree......tho I think our education system tends to cover our own province's history, then general Canadian history as well as the United States. Unfortunately detailed coverage of each province seems to fall by the wayside (or we have forgotten the details). The need to get the grains off the prairies certainly pushed the completion of the Canadian Pacific Railway.
A bit off the subject again but I thought I'd share....I received a phone call yesterday from a man in Germany asking that I research his family. Tho he had quite a German accent it turns out he originally came from Moose Jaw. He said he misses the wide open prairie and the endless sky. I had a bit of doubt in my voice as to the fact that he grew up here. He laughed and said his accent to the Germans makes him *not* a German....but he told me his father worked for, where else, but the CPR and his mother was a nurse at Moose Jaw's Providence Hospital. I sent him an email asking what was he doing in Germany and this was his reply:
Quoting:
Not at all. I play principal french horn with the Wuppertal Symphony
Orchestra www.sinfonieorchester-wuppertal.de
Got a Bachelor of Music from Regina and a Master of Music from Edmonton,
both in piano performance.Horn was second study. I played with the Regina
Symphony for 4 years, the Edmonton Symphony for 3 years, then I left Canada
to play principal horn in Cape Town. After 1 year there I moved to Germany
(1977) whereI spent 3 years in Mainz, thence on to Wuppertal.
quoted with his permission
Small world isn't it? ;) It really amazed me how much he said he missed Moose Jaw.....I told him I'd email some of the pictures we've taken for posting here. I'm also going to beg him to take some of Germany!
Pati thank you for the Polar Bear link.......they are amazing pictures and I had to show them to my family. The photographer was lucky he was on a sub with an escape hatch!! ;)
What a great thread. We have an elevator still in Libau. I'll have to go look at it in the spring. We only have 4 or 5 trains a day on our line, going from Winnipeg to Pinawa to and from a mine. When the mine closes, who knows.
You are lucky to be an archivist Pam. Wish I had done that instead of elementary schools. Was thinking of taking the archivist course but with cutbacks - and my age, who knows if I would ever get a job. Unfortunately, not many volunteers allowed here. Doing people out of jobs you know.
so I work with all the local kiddos, between reading, gardening and generally teaching them whatever, keeps me busy.
Ginny - who is used to it now.
Thought you guys might be interested in seeing this picture. It's DH's grandfather standing beside the train. Probably in the early 1900's. We aren't exactly sure where it is , but probably a line that ran from Winnipeg south into the States. He worked on that line for a long time, and brought a lot of settlers up from the States. His brother waws a land agent, so brought people up and sold them land.
Glenda
What a cool way to end the thread Glenda! I was thinking up uploading Grandfather's train as well and then forgot about it until I saw yours. Looks like they both worked at about the same time.
Meant to upload this one
I always find it amazing where these threads go, and end up. Lots of information for us out there, isn't there!!!
I guess our grandfathers enjoyed the railroad!
Glenda
Great Grandfather's train also did an American run as well....
I would say so! Ü
Looks like we have another connection Glenda....my Grandfather that laid the rails was also a Land Titles manager.
This message was edited Feb 1, 2005 6:56 PM
Thanks for those old photographs, Glenda.
Pam, thanks for all the great info. I'm glad you're doing a display in the library; it makes me feel better about the elevators somehow, even though I probably won't get to see it (unless you post pics! ;-) Interesting, too, about that gentleman's travels as a musician. Everyone has a story, don't they - but we only get to hear it if we make time to talk with them.
Yep both his story and his orchestra is pretty impressive.....edited to say as is the hall they play in.
This message was edited Jan 29, 2005 10:21 PM
Wow! A classic, old European hall, like we see in the movies....imagine playing there, or even just going to a performance there.
The principal oboist of the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra is originally from Poland. Apparently Grzegorz Nowak (then-music director) was there, saw her playing, and sent her a fax inviting her to move to Edmonton and play principal oboe - and he gave her 24 hrs to respond. Well she must have been in the mood for an adventure, because she came over and joined the orchestra. She eventually married a fellow musician in Edmonton and they now have a child, so guess she's staying for the long haul. 24 hours - can you imagine!!
Pam, how did he come to reach you? Did he send something to the library? and it got to you cause you're the lady who is in charge of all strange requests, wierd plants, and local trivia???
We could add an aka to the title of this forum - canadian history for all of us. it's great the excursions we take, kinda like the country in general. no fixed focus, whereever life leads us.
I have just finished reading my 'Beauty Secrets from Moose Jaw' and would recommend it to anyone. Had it not been the middle of winter, I think I would have been on the road already to experience more of my country. Pam you are definitely getting a quick visit this summer (as soon as I find a reliable waterer).
It turns out he was in Moose Jaw this summer and he spoke to me when I was working on reference desk (he came in often to use the internet).........all four reference staff members cover archives here.
Please, oh please, give us some warning Lynn......a week or two in advance!!!!!! Hate to have the monster dust bunnies attack you as you walk in the door! ;) Mid to late summer would be best....we have to move Mom and Dad back home (late April I hope) and the farmhouse isn't totally emptied yet.
dust bunnies??? can we make stew from them? I would be so blinded by your vegetation that dust bunnies wouldn't even make it into my viewfinder.
besides it you're real good i'll send you some pics of my place when i get distracted with a project and forget the definition of housekeeping
not that i ever know the definition according to the REAL housekeepers of the land; mostly i just pretend i'm increasing topsoil or something