Wanted any info on Gel Propagation

Thanks for all the wonderful information Sidney.
Jody

Yes thanks Sidney, I might as well order it then and save the gas money too. Which is nothing to sneeze at these days :) I was thinking instant gratification, but I can't remember where I saw the jar and I didn't price it at the time. It'll doubtless be best to just have it delivered. Keep us updated on the experiment with the peroxide solution gel (did you try any rooting hormone with it yet?) I'd like to try woodier cuttings with this method and see what I come up with.
Do you think the roots would penetrate the large sized 'beans' or slip between them, if it's between then the smallest sizes might be best. I might wait until your coleus roots to order so I'll know more about what size to go with.


Diana

Diana, I found a pattern for making cool ties with these crystals on that site and started a thread. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/478880/ I can see lots of potential for this, so I'm ordering the medium size crystals for my 10#er.
I also have e-mail submited to see if there's a shipping break for ordering 2 different sizes.

Sidney I just posted to you over there.heehee.I love this place.lol.Jody

It amazes me that an old idea and new materials can encourage so many more ideas. I have been using Knox for years for starting seeds when I wanted to add a bit of warmth to the soil. I first saw it in Organic Gardening magazine. You can also use Jello (the wiggler recipie) or cornstarch gel( cooked til clear). Needless to say it is much less expensive but you do have to be able to boil water. Some of the commercial Polymer gels have added chemicals such as gibberilic acid to improve the process, but the old gels still work just fine. I make up a batch of cubes and store them in the fridge until I need them then let them warm to room temp. The polymer gels eventually break down in the sunlight but the organic gels go much faster. In the breakdown they give off heat for good germination and the sugar and starch in them acts as a plant food. I never heard of the peat pots or cubes. Those sound like they might be worth a try. Jessamine

jess, did you check out the web site? I will try your wiggler recipe if you will give it to me. I have about 30 boxes of Jell-o from Mother's Estste, lol
Can you root cuttings in these things?
Sidney.

Jessamine I would luv more info on your gelatin way of starting seeds. I would like to try it.
Thanks, Donna

Hey there: there is no particularly exact recipe to follow except to reduce the amount of water in the Jello. I think the recipe is on the box. The Knox works the same way. The difference is in the durability of the medium. Jello and Knox are both produced from kelp, a seaweed. Knox has no extra sugar and flavoring added. The sugar in Jello produces more heat and is more available as a food source. The food source is not really necessary for seeds because the seeds contain their own food and so the sugar is already breaking down by the time it could be useful. Yes, it is also a food source for common molds so it is not going to last more than a few weeks. That' s fine because by that time you should have a seedling big enough to transplant. Sugar free Jello works fine.
The cornstarch is a bit more difficult because it takes a while to cook. Many cooks don't understand they need to cook it at a low temp until it is clear. It is at that point the starch makes a chemical change that makes it more durable. I have made it so many times, I don't remember the original recipe quantities. Now I just add two or three cups of water to a 1/2 cup of cornstarch and let it come to a slow boil, reduce heat and let it cook at a low temp til it gets clear. If it is too thick, add more water. The longer it cooks, the more firm the final cubes will be. It will break down very quickly if the gel looks cloudy. That is starch suspended in the gel.
While I was typing this It occurred to me that I read a long time ago that you could use laundry starch like this. I haven't seen old fashioned laundry starch in years but it is just replacing cornstarch with another starch. Come to think of it I don't even remember what grain laundry starch is made from but I do remember it was edible, if tasteless. If you want to add fertilizer just add a spoonful of bone meal and green sand, It won't make the gel break down.
Yes all of these will support cuttings, but not forever. To me it is a benefit that they break down so completely, so quickly. I don't have a thing against the Polymer Gels except cost and durability. I have been using them for several years for various reasons. I don't use the disposible diapers. The cost appalled me and then you would have the problem of disposing of the paper and plastic parts of the diaper. The idea of used (wet) diapers appalled me even more. Apart from the sanitary issues, surely the ammonia would be harmful to the plants.
Sugar weed, I don't know which web site you mean. I went to the commercial sites. I'm sure there is some info on some of the propagation and research sites though. Jessamine

This message was edited Jan 20, 2005 8:08 AM

Jess thank you so much for the info above. I have a big tray ready to make and germinate some seeds in with this gelitine mix.
The start of this thread we discussed some readymade gel six packs for rooting in. They were rather pricey, $12. & $18 for a six pack. I'd have to be rooting a money tree. I was just trying to see if I could come up with something more reasonable.
The web site I was refering to was http://www.watersorb.com/prices.htm.
This is THE gel/crystal source for the best money and ideas.
My sand just waves at the water in my yard, so I just fell out at getting this at such a reasonable price. I've paid on the average of $7.50+ per pound in the past and $2. for the first ounce ten years ago. The diaper gel is just 1 of a dozen different polymers this co. makes and sells. Garden and craft gel are different. It is a non-profit co.
I ordered some powder, for rooting experiments and a lot of medium crystals.
I may go into the "no water annual garden business" with this product. It's just an idey at this point. But this really does save and release the water. Our water is not expensive, but the "sewage fee" is based on water use, so I had a $400. water bill one month years back trying to seed my lawn. It was devistating.
I have been Blessed with some real good help and a clean palate so I will be putting it in the bottom of holes I plant in.
Some plants like to go dry between waterings, so I'll not be using it there.
You are right about the clothes starch being made from corn. I'll have to be cooking up some of this also.
These days they call me "Dr. Strangegoo".

I have tried so many variations on seed germinaton. I think the one I liked the best was the Growblocks. I bought the expensive devices that shape the blocks and went through the hassle of making up the mud and still a lot of the blocks fell apart. The idea of only needing to select out the 3/4x3/4 in. blocks that succeeded and placing them in the 2 1/2 in. cubes make them very attractive since the space savings are enormous.You could put a couple hundred of the small cubes on one tray. I think I'm going to try them again and add the cooked cornstarch to the mud instead of water. I think it would work best if I added the dry ingredients to the still hot cooked starch instead of the other way around. Do you have any thoughts about it? I wonder if you could pour the gel into the old popsicle forms and have them hold together when you remove them. Would they even come out? I think the larger pieces wouldn't work without a lot of extra stiring to make them stick together. I think I wouldn't use these for annuals, too work intensive, but it would be good for herbs and perennials. Jessamine

Well, experiments are for discovery. I have several goodies on hand or on the way.
First, an update on coleus rooting in plain gel. I will be lifting 3 of them today dipping in rooting hormone and re-placing them in the same medium. Using the clear container lets me see they aren't rooting yet. They were started the 13th.

Adding the dry ingredients to the cooked cornstarch or mixed gelitain would be the best plan.
Here's an idea, I'll try. Sterilize fine peat in micro, Cook-up cornstarch, add fine peat, put in pan lined with release aluminum. Let cool. Cut into cubes put one in each partition of sterilized 6-packs.
I'll do some with Knox's too. Then add seeds.
I'm wondering if you took a fluffy brush and applied dry corn starch to a mold if they would release easy?
So much to do so little time.

Edited to correct adding dry to wet is best.

This message was edited Jan 21, 2005 10:09 AM

sugarweed, keep up the good work.lol.I'm still reading and watching.Jody

Chiming in here...

I read in a garden magazine a few years back, about a guy(the author) who claimed his French grandmother always made her own seed starting cubes. She used gelatin to help hold the soil together. He gave no formal recipe, so I gave it a try, just winging it.

I made the knox gelatin according to the packet directions. I then mixed it with my soilless mix, in a large bowl. I formed it into cubes(which really were more like balls! lol) and planted seeds. It worked really well, but I remember thinking how I wish I'd purhcased those seed cube thingy's I'd seen in a garden catalog, so they'd have a better shape. I figured this would be the perfect combo, but have never sprung for the cube makers.
Jessamine-since you've already purchased the cube makers, and have used gelatin before, I'd think it would be a sinch for you!

The ONLY drawback, was that making my own was time consuming, and using the 72 cell packs I bought at wal-mart were much quicker for me...

...guess my next experiment would be to use gelatin mix in my cell packs...

-T

All chimes welcome here seedpicker.

I've got my Thunbergia fragrans soaking in SeedSprout as we speak. I'll let you all know how long it takes to germinate them.

Joseph

Joseph, what's SeedSprout?
:) Donna

My DH managed to bring home the flu from work and I still have to get together my input for this years Terrace Hydrangea Garden at the Ext. for a meeting this saturday so don't expect a report on the cube maker-gelatain experiment for a week or two. (whine) I hate people who go out when they have the flu. (cough...wheeze...sneeze...sniff) }:o( Sandy

You poor thing, Sandy. I know what you mean. I've been off work with a bad cold all week.
:( Donna

sugarweed any roots yet in the gel?

Diana

After I put them in rootone, I thought I had roots, but didn't. I put emin soil anyhow and hope they root on out. I have some new ones in now and when I get back home, plan on some new trys with the gel powder I got this week. 1 teaspoon dry=2cups gel.
Dr Strangegoo

http://www.une.edu.au/~agronomy/AgSSrHortTCinfo.html

I posted this somewhere else, but I thought it was really interesting. Maybe something I could even do!

One TEASPOON makes two cups?? Gah! Talk about going a long way, lol!
I need to get off my butt and order some to try out.

Diana

Oh Diana, DS has recipes now, Thanks for the web site, can't wait to get back home. I think I can do this. Sidney

Hi everyone...just wanted to mention that I recently bought some of these water-absorbing "crystals" from here http://www.containerseeds.com/products/suppliespage.html#item803

Great price, and the shipping was very fast, also

What about using TP rolls to make the forms? They could also be tansplanted directly into the ground. Cut in half, they are almost the size of jiffy peat pots. What do you think?

Welcome Crissy, welcome to DG. Disney for Gardeners. LOL Well, I've paid those prices, but I dont consider them good prices anymore. I'm a real tight-wad though. You will love them for slowing down the water in your yard, and a multitude of other places.
How did they recommend the crystals be used?
Sidney

Hi guys! Great timing for this thread! I just ordered (yea yea I know) the 6 pack of rooting gel from Charley's. I just couldn't resist. She did tell me the gel was reusable until it starts to turn colors like there's nothing left. Pinetree has a better price on the gel and I ordered some from them a long time ago but it's still on backorder and I was afraid to wait any longer.

Will let you know how it goes - would LOVE to make my own if I had the time!!!

Thanks for the thread!

Nicole

Hi Sugarweed, thanks for the welcome!!

Well, the whole site is devoted to container gardening (which I'm trying my hat at a little bit this year - my first year gardening). But they recommend mixing them into the soil/other medium in the container to help with water retention, as containers dry out faster than plants in the ground do, especially in the Florida sunshine! Like I said, this is my first attempt, so I have nothing to compare the results to, but I'll keep my fingers crossed!

*bump*

check out these gel (polymer) and gelatin (yes, jello!) uses in seed starting!

I just have to start something in little Jiggler blocks this year..... maybe cukes/squash (like to give them a 2-3 wk. start)

Was there supposed to be a link?

Hey guys! Glad this one popped back up! Been using the 6 pack gel thingy.. Welll....... my corkscrew willow is rooting all over the place (I've heard they do that anyway though) but NOTHING else is... Now I even have Rosemary in there - I normally root it just fine in water. It doesn't seem to like this gel too much though! May be operator error - that's most certainly a 'viable' option. LOL!!

Nicole

I love the gel for slowing water, but not for starting cuttings. I'll do more test next year.
Nicole you paid how much?
That I'd balk about.

I bought a 6 pack of the gel to and I hadn't had any luck with cuttings before I left to. I have some passiflora cuttings in it....haven't died yet but haven't rooted yet either.
:) Donna

Donna,
With your passiflora cuttings are they straight up in the gel or are they exposed to some rooting hormone... I was thinking last night the 6 pack gel and then use something like clonex gel... I am going to take a stab at it since i am a passiflora nut....


Guppy

I'm not saying how much they were! Guppy, my gel already has the hormones in it. Grr!

I called watersorb and they are sending me a variety of products.... I got an idea (evil grin) with some palm seeds. Once i get part of the paper written I'll share it with you all, might as well have Daves Garden contributeto my Masters Degree project! hehehe

I have interest with the gel they use to suspend hydraseed.. anyone ever play with it?

Guppy

Where will you post your paper?

John

Guppy, aren't those fellows at watersorb the best. If youv'e read all of this thread, you know I'm a water crystal groupie. They said some one
up north was doing a crystals soaked in manure tea test.
I am anxious to know what you find out.
Sidney, neighbor to the North.

Well I got 10 pounds of assorted size polymer.. so its off to researching I go!!!

I found this research link that looks to be pretty good!

http://www.hydrosource.com/serv01.htm

Check it out... I learned a bit today!

Guppy

Guppy, the cuttings are standing straight up in the rooting gel packs. I don't know how their doing since I'm still in Deltona. I just hope DH hasn't killed everything while I'm gone. When I get back I'll post if I got any roots.
:) Donna