Update on my dog problems :)

If you're not familiar with my dilemma here's the original post:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/452227/

I bought 7 ft t-posts and additional fence. I put the poles on my side of the 4ft fence and strung the additional fence between the poles to make it a 7 ft fence.... but now the dogs owners are upset, they claim that the original 4ft fence is in the wrong place, that an additional 1ft of my yard is actually there's and that they think my fence is a eyesore and don't want anything permanent planted there. The fence poles and fence I put up is green, you don't even notice it unless you look for it... I guess that's my opinion. If they would let me cover it in vines they would have a much nicer view than they had before... a flowering wall versus the side of my garage. Which totally over looks the whole purpose I put the fence up in the first place, I need the protection from their dog! I would think they would be almost as happy as me that their dog cannot "escape" and attack my son and me! But now they are angry, I really never thought they'd get upset about it... I'm a bit frustrated. Why is it I'm the one being "unreasonable" when I couldn't even allow my son to play in the back yard, we've lived in fear for 2 1/2 months! Sigh, ideas? If they would ever come out of their house I could talk to them but I've only seen the husband 3 times and the wife once.... the dog is never visited or played with. They must feed him after dark; I never see them out at all.

girlfriend, you are not the one with a problem. nothing you do will make these neighbors happy. be sure you know your property lines - it's your yard, you can fence it and plant it any way you like. have you tried the hotdog idea yet?
i would try tossing the dog some treats when you know they can't see you.
good luck, deidz

If you really think they don't visit the dog, call the humane society in your area and complain that the dog is emotionally abused. There is more to having a pet than giving it food and water.

Check out the laws in your area regarding dogs, boundaries, etc. and stick to your guns. Refuse to be pushed around and eventually they will leave you alone. Bully can only be bullies when someones allows it. Surely you can force them to keep the dog away from your son and off your property whether they like it or now. No, I haven't gone back and read all the previous post, but there must be some lines drawn somewhere that you can make them stay behind.

I don't know about all of TN but here the Humane Society would look at me like I was nuts if I said the dog was being emotionally abused/neglected. People on farms and out of city limits here chain them to trees as puppies and they toss them a few scraps now and then, that is the animals life... if they die they just replace them. It's the TN version of a burglar alarm. Animals do not have rights here and the local shelters are over run with throw away pets, they barely have the funds to keep the doors open... until recently the strays picked up were all thrown into one pen... the sick, the young, the vicious... the shelter had a 80% kill rate, once picked up the dog had a very slim chance of ever leaving alive. I don't know how bad it is now, we just returned to TN after being gone for 3 years. I heard the shelter finally moved out of the condemned building it once occupied... but I also heard one shelter closed it's doors for lack of funding.

Well from the sounds of it, your area needs a visit from PETA. LOL That would straighten them out but good.
You must have talked to one of them since you say they are upset. What exactly did you tell them was the reason you are putting up the fence?
Boxers are really people oriented animals. It is a shame they are treating it as though it has no feelings. My boxer would curl up and die if I ignored her.If it is that starved for attention, I would think you could gain its trust. Our neighbors ignore their animals also. They have two dogs and since they put them outdoors because they are not cute puppies anymore I never see them do anything but feed them and water them last thing at night.
I do believe they think we are their owners and wonder why they are next door. LOL I pet them and talk to them and throw them treats. I even told the owner that I was going to fatten his dog up so it could not squeeze under the fence and come into my yard. I do not want my plants beat up by it.
I have enough pets of my own to watch out for regarding my plant survival.
Do you have a property map that you got when you bought your home? If part of your yard is theirs as they say, just do not mow the grass and let it grow so it hides their yard and dog. Maybe if you do not tend their neglected property they will gladly let you plant things instead.
It makes me mad that they are putting a guilt trip on you as they are the ones who are pestering you with their dog. Boy they have some nerve.

Windy:
Yes, we "talked" with the neighbor... when my husband was out helping me finish putting up the fence (it took me 3 days after the posts were in to get him out to help stretch and wire the fencing). It was a brief conversation, my husband stated I was going to grow vines on it, he never did actually state it was for our safety. That's when he informed us that the fence is his land (and another 1 foot) and he don't want anything permanent on it before leaving and going into his house.... didn't stay to discuss his feelings or listen to ours. The neighbors (both husband and wife) know from other brief encounters (I practically rush out there when I see them to try to talk to them) that I'm afraid of the dog and afraid it will hurt my son... he said "yeah, he's not real friendly" and she said "he's only territorial" (unfortunately he thinks my yard is HIS territory!).

I suspect that he's the one that chopped my baby clematis vines that were just starting to grow.... I am not a dishonest person and never thought of it before; I thought it strange the wind had broken them so clean (like a knife cut)... now I suspect it was he. I hope he doesn't turn this into a feud, I wonder if I should give up my idea of vines and just be glad if he doesn’t raise more fuss about the fence. I LOVE the fence, I feel so safe! We even bought my son a woodplay center! I can finally run into the house to grab a drink or the phone without making him come in too, my windows overlook the whole yard so I can see him and he is safe from the dog! I don't even mind the dog getting upset, barking and trying to get me, I know he can't and I'm so very happy I barely notice him! If it gets ugly I'm going to dig huge POKEWEED roots up from the local fields and plant them there! Good luck, killing them :) ... no, I really won't... he's probably the kind who would poison my dog, why are people so evil? As for the property, we are currently renting it but were thinking about buying if the major repairs were done... now I'm glad we haven't bought it yet, I don't think we will. We will just have to take our time and really study the places we consider, for neighborhood as well as neighbors on both sides. Too bad, one of the things that I liked about this area was that 3 cops live in the area... unfortunately not close enough to me I guess!

I really would just like the chance to talk to them; it looks to them as if I'm deliberately trying to be evil. I'm not innocent, I did do something wrong. In August I trimmed his bushes that go all the way to the street (just the ones on the corner) and I explained to him why... AFTER I did it. I know I did wrong! I just wasn't thinking right when I did it; my driveway is on the blind side of a curve and his hedges were 6ft tall going all the way to the street... I took a serious chance of being hit every time I left my driveway. One day after a close call, I grabbed my trimmers and went to work reducing them to 4 ft, then it occurred to me that in his eyes I could be "damaging" his property (his shrubs) and that I would not like it if someone had done that to me without asking.... my brain doesn't always keep up with my hands. When he drove by I stopped him and told him why I had done it, he didn't seem upset and a few days later trimmed the remaining hedge. I thought it was to be nice but it could have been because he was trying to "repair the damage" by cutting them all to the same height so they would grow out even. Ah, the trouble I get myself into... I just want everyone to get along peacefully and to be safe from harm to my son or myself. I want peace, I hate conflict, my home should not be a place of stress.


This message was edited Oct 25, 2004 12:43 AM

Oooh, yeah, trimming his hedges wasn't a good way to get off on the right foot. If anything, the city or county might have made him cut them back if they posed a hazard. Still, best to talk to folks before breaking out the shears. ;)

Crimson,
You should have some survey markers down at the corners of each property (most properties do) that can be detected by metal detectors that you can rent/buy or even borrow from a friend. The only ones who can tell you what you can and can't do are the County, State, an HOA (Home Owner's Association if there is one) and the landlord obviously. I would refer to all and a surveyer if need be (or the existing survey markers) to determine where property lines start and end. Some areas have regulations as to where along the property line you can put a fence. Some state that you have to have it a certain distance off to your side of the actual property line. You might also have a leash law in your area that you could "call him on" or some sort of state regulation. Your vet can offer advice here. Certainly considering that you have a child, the animal shelter SHOULD be able to help you I would think but then we ARE talking about rural TN (IF you want to go that route and i think I would and I'm a dog lover). Your landlord too has probably dealt with them before and might be able to offer some advice on how to deal with them.

The hedge thing would have definately made an enemy out of me if you had done that to me (and I'm pretty laid back) but I think we all act out on emotion or impulse at some point or another instead of thinking things through. DPS (Department of Public Saftey) or TDOT (Tennessee Department of Transportation) should or could have helped you with the hedge situation.

I can just imagine the relief and peace of mind the fence gives you. I would fight tooth and nail to not only keep the fence but to decorate it any way I wish so long as it's in accordance with County, State and HOA regs (if you have an HOA).

As to the problem about the existing 4' fence... If this was not something you installed and was there before you moved in, they should not be bugging you about it but instead they should contact the landlord about it. And really anything you do on your side of that fence is none of their business until it has been determined by the landlord that it is infact on their property. At wich point it would be the landlord's responsibility to re-do the fence based on the actual property lines.

Some people will never be happy so give up the idea that if you could just plant some pretty flowers/vines to show them how pretty it could be, everything would be better. It sounds like they are looking for reasons to dig on you. Stick to your guns (as stated by leaflady above), check with your local officials, departments and landlord and do what these organizations say you can do and NOT what your neighbor says.

Not to be nosey but I would love to see pictures of this if you have or could take some. How about the hedge... Did you at least trim it nicely and even or did you do a hack job? lol

BugFreak:
I feel I did a good job, all level... the fall has made most of the leaves drop, but it was nice and leafy even after my "trim job". I would like to get out and get pictures of my fence and "Rowdy" (the dog)... I thought knowing his name might help so I asked the one and only time I saw his female owner. It hasn't helped but.... ah, there's always hope. Even if I was able to gain his trust/friendship I couldn't trust such an easily "excitable" dog around my son, the fence would have to stay. I've decided to hold my ground about the fence, I won't give it up. I will keep trying to "make nice with the neighbors", but I am going to stand firm on the fence. If he wants to push the issue he will have to go to the court and pay for the surveyors map of the property and contact the Property Management Company that owns this house/property about moving the 4ft fence. I will not go back to living in fear, if my fence does need to be removed I will find another way, possibly moving the fence in the 1 ft and leaving him try to deal with the soon to be over grown 12 inches between fences.

Has your landlord had anything to say about your putting up a fence?

When I lived in rented property, I just asked the landlord if I could put a fence up and he approved.
Could you maybe fence in an area near your house just big enough for your son to play safely?
I know it is troublesome having to bear the expense when it is not your fault. If you put a fence up you can take it with you when you move. Just dig around the poles and break the cement enough to lift the poles out and cover the top with a little soil, that is what we did.

Crimson,

You have not bought that house and you should give notice to the landlord and move. Why would you even consider buying something that is such an agrivation!!!

Jeanette

I'm reading this thinking to myself... "It's very interesting how different we all see and deal with things." For an example;

"Could you maybe fence in an area near your house just big enough for your son to play safely?"
I would never in a million years yeild to my neighbors (or anyone for that matter) this much. I would have to have a HUGE yard to even think about fencing in my child's play area and I might expect the landlord to pay for this if the fence was part of the lease terms. Nor would I even consider moving the fence when I didn't erect it and it was up well before I came along. I would sit back and let the landlord and your neighbor duke it out. My thought is "It's not your problem" and neither is the portion of the fence that you added so long as it follows the existing fence. As to moving the fence when I move?... Moving alone is chaotic enough. Even when movers come into your home to pack and move everything for you. (This is the only way I've moved and it has still proven to be quite the hassle.) I can only imagine with a child too.

Jnette says give notice and move. Hummm. My take is that you have as much right to be there as anyone else there. Yes the friction would be annoying and I might reconsider buying but I certainly wouldn't just get up and move because my neighbor was being unreasonable. If the fence is part of the lease agreement and does end up coing down you should be able to move without giving ANY sort of notice since the agreement was terminated by the other party unless they keep it and simply move it.

After reading everyone's comments I wonder if I really am as reasonable as I thought I was. Jnette and Windy are angels compared to me.

Can you not go to your local land titles office, get a copy of the survey and settle the placing of the fence for once and for all? Land titles are public knowledge after al. Then make sure that your fence is INSIDE the property.

You don't even have to speak to your neighbour about it. Just make sure that your new fence IS inside your rented property.

A canadian point of view.
Inanda

This one got me thinking too. Like BugFreak I don't back down easily. 15 years ago i bought 10 acres in rural Washington. My neighbor informed me where the property line was. It was when i noticed the line seemed to move around on his whim that i went hunting for the corner markers. I rented the equipement needed and did my own survey. I do not know or understand quarnant geometry and guessed alot, my "survey" showed the neighbor was 10 feet over into my property.
I did not want this property line to become an issue so i hired a real surveyor. His survey came to within an inch of the original survey and showed my neighbor had moved the lined 15 feet into my property and his driveway was on my property. The neighbor was angry but since he did not hire his own surveyor and the corner pins stop disappearing i figured he knew he was wrong. How this ties into dogs, yep you guessed it, he has one. I finally had to call him and ask him to keep his dog on his property. It came over to poop, eat my cat's food, chase my cat, eat the bird food, chase me and freinds going up or down the drive or just come over and angrily bark at me. There are times one just needs to stand ones ground.

Well, having owned dogs that made the neighbors antsy, I guess I see both sides. We live in (what used to be) out in the country, on a 1+ acre lot; neighbors on both sides have about 5 acres each. We had two lab/mixed breed dogs, which would occasionally (and I stress OCCASIONALLY) get out of their run or away from us, and run through the back field (owned by neither of our adjoining neighbors) to chase rabbits. The dogs - for whatever reason - didn't like my neighbors. (I have my own theories as to why that might be, but they're highly subjective and not very flattering to the neighbors.) If the neighbors were out, the dogs would bark at them. Any time the dogs got loose, the neighbor would call Animal Control and complain that we "let them run loose all the time." (As stated on the written complaints, of which I had copies made of all 10-12 incidents, reported over 3 years.) At no time did Animal Control ever find the dogs out of their run becuase we always caught them and put them back up. (They stayed under our control - either on a leash, in the run or with us outside - 99.99% of the time. It was that 0.01% that this neighbor obsessed over.)

We tried reasoning. We tried being nice. We tried being nice-but-firm. Animal Control finally told me that I could call the Sheriff's department and have them explain to this woman that what she was doing constituted harassment.

In the meantime, the neighbor also decided on several occasions that my children had vandalized her property (her garage door got some Halloween chocolate smeared on it one night; her mailbox got treated to something sticky like corn syrup) and no amount of logic or reasoning would convince her that my kids weren't behind these "vicious acts" and "federal offenses" (the mailbox - she construed the syrup on her mailbox handle to be "tampering with US mail", which is a federal offense. Sigh. Never mind that EVERYONE'S mailbox had gotten the same treatment, or that it was not a big deal to clean up.)

Finally, one day last year the final straw broke. My oldest son pulled in the driveway, and beeped his horn as he pulled in. My neighbor was apparently outside (I can't see her since she erected a privacy fence between us - which she demanded we pay half of. We declined.) She marched THROUGH my flower beds and stood yelling at me from an open window (nice day, windows up..) telling me just how rude and tacky my son is. This is while she's standing in my flower bed, you see.

Well, we went round and round - I was very specific, very firm, and absolutely not willing to budge. Told her she was out of line, that what she had done constituted invasion of privacy and if the situation had been reversed, no doubt she would have called the sheriff's department on me as a peeping tom, and pointed out that I *could* do that to her. She began a rant about how she had lost the "use and enjoyment" of her yard since we got the dogs. It sounded like a lawsuit in the making to me, so we surrendered the dogs to Animal Control. I don't like being threatened, but the dogs weren't worth being sued over. The neighbor and I haven't spoken since that day. My blood still does a slow boil whenever I think about her. We've considered selling our house and moving - and we might still one of these days. But I'll be hanged if I'm gonna let some whacko neighbor run me out of my house ;o)

What does that have to do with this story? I agree you should call animal control. If the animal can get on your property, poses a threat. Explain that it is vicious and has threatened to attack you/your child (if that's the truth.) And let the landlord have it out with this guy. When the shoe was on the other foot, I was ALWAYS quick to apologize for the animal being out, tried different ways to get the neighbor and the animals to like one another, and extend the proverbial olive branch at every turn, until the last arguement. If they're unwilling to see their culpability, then let the law handle them. No one should live in fear on their own property. On that my neighbor and I would agree. (We just disagreed about what constitutes being a good neighbor ;o)

What a nightmare, Terry! I had no idea about all that with your dogs. Sorry it turned out like that. :(

Terry that's horrible! I am so lucky to have good neighbors. The ones to the left of my house got a puppy this spring. My three were out barking their fool heads off, wanting to meet the new one, and the other side neighbor came out, laughed, and said "I guess this neighborhood is going to the dogs!" Now, I am careful never to leave mine out to bark, that drives me crazy, and we certainly try to be good neighbors. I wish everybody could all get along in this world, but some people make it really hard.

Well, it's all going ugly... I bought a nice rose bush and wrote her a nice letter apoligising for the hedge and talking about the fence and my reasons... here it is:

"I'm sorry we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot. I don't mean to offend you, the things I do, cutting the hedges and erecting a higher fence are only because I am afraid for our safety. I was wrong to trim your hedges without consulting you, I am very sorry. It was done in haste without thinking it through. I was in danger of having my car hit every time I left my driveway, the curve in the road and speed of the drivers left them no time to stop if they saw me and I could not see them. As for the fence, I was hoping with the fence poles and fence being green it would not be noticeable. I know you love your dog and I thought it would be best if we could be certain he could not make it over our fence. I did not think it would offend you. I love my son greatly; I could not let him play in our back yard without constant fear. I know you don't feel your dog is a danger, and maybe he isn't, but I think it's best for both our sakes that we don't take any chances. If you will allow me to cover it in annual (not permanent) vines it could be quite beautiful, a nicer view than before. I love to garden and if you don't like flowers perhaps something edible, like green beans or snow peas? I would love to talk to you about it."

She just came by and yelled at me... I said nothing that could have possibly upset her. She says she's going to get a lawyer, I stayed calm and still tryed to talk to her... it only made her angrier. She's livid and all I did was be nice... so, if things are going to get ugly she will probably get to see just how ugly I can get. I will let the property managers know about her problems with the fence tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned the fence is not my problem. I really don't want to move, I'm sure that would make her thrilled but it really is a big thing to pack up and move, and quite expensive since our furnature is too large to be moved without hiring a moving company. I'm actually considering putting the rose bush (she brought it back when she yelled at me) and a dozen more along the fence but I know they'd poison it.

This message was edited Oct 27, 2004 7:41 PM

This message was edited Oct 27, 2004 11:33 PM

Well, you did try!
I don't know what else you can do. She has made up here mind not to accept any friendly gestures.
Some people just get a mindset and close their minds to any sort of communication.

After thinking about it for awhile, I think I'd like to move the fence in 1 ft, it would restrict some of what they could do to my plants along the fence and takes the fuel out of their argument since the only thing they can base their argument on is position of the property line. Our yard is quite large and 1 ft will not detract anything from it... however my husband thinks it would be best to just leave it there. He says it will only serve to upset them more (he's right) since they would then have a 1ft strip between the fences that they would have to try to maintain (I say that's not my problem, let it go to weeds). He says let them "fight it out" with the Property Managers. The main reason I want to move it though is so I can start my perennial planting on it right now... I just got a good deal on some clematis :)

One of the Managing Agents at our Property Management Company laughed when I told her about the "fence dilemma"... she says, "Have they had it surveyed? That 4ft fence has been there for over 10 years, don't move your fence. You can do anything you like on your property. If they say anything about it tell them to have their lawyer send us the paperwork." So as far as I'm concerned it's over, the Property Management company is perfectly willing to handle them.... except the fact that I may not be able to grow anything on the fence without them cutting it down/poisoning it. I can work around it, I just need to find some hardy plants/shrubs... they'll get tired of fighting sooner or later. I'm putting in a bunch of baby shrubs along it so far, the shrubs in our front yard seem to be invasive and so I have a never-ending supply of baby shrubs. What else grows REALLY fast... I'll fill it in with Castor Bean and Sunflower until the shrubs take off.

Passion flowers. In your area maybe the Passiflora incarnata would be hardy.

I have a burning bush that has never been happy in its spot. Would you like me to mail it to you???

I've read all of both threads and am so sorry to hear that your son's safety was threatened. The neighbors--do they have any children (grown or otherwise)? If they do not, it's easy to see that they cannot understand your instinct to protect your son at all costs. If they DO...shame on them for not being more understanding!!

Bravo for your mgmt. company! Still, it's uncomfortable to have neighbors you cannot wave to or speak with, now (only added the "now" because my H.S. Eng. teacher would turn in his grave from the preposition at the end of that sentence)!

Plant to your heart's content! Put down your pen and keep the rose bush. Know that you tried. Pray for your neighbor. (Things I would do--advice you can take or leave).

I love our dog, but if she threatened a child, she would not be able to live with us (Terry, I'm sorry your neighbor had litigation fever and you lost your dogs). Pet owners have a responsibility to take loving care of their pets...your neighbors aren't doing that.

You are a mother first. Dogs have killed young children, here in Colorado. Denver has repeatedly tried to make it illegal to own pitbulls because of 2 children's deaths in the past 7 yrs. Boxers are strong and smart. You did what your SON needed you to do. You have your priorities straight!
Diane

I love my dog, she sometimes looks at the other dog in bafflement... but most of the time she does exactly what we do and stays away from that area of the yard. She's a "fur person" (a dog who has no idea it's a dog, not a person). I love her dearly and because I've always treated her like a responsible and loved member of the family she'd NEVER so much as rumble or curl a lip no matter what a child did. What she will do is run circles around them if they can't behave, she thinks she's a greyhound :), leaving them running to try to catch her! The kids actually think it's fun, great laughs! I can bring her to parks and any child can walk right up and play or pet her. Ignorant people will always use dogs for evil purposes, if all the Pit bulls were suddenly wiped off the earth they'd use another breed... they've used Dobermans, German Shepards, Rotweillers... the list would never end. Everything is how you treat, train and love. She even tried to make friends with the neighbor lady while she yelled at us, she really thought "Why wouldn't she want to pet me, I like her!" Too funny!

I would never have a dog that would bark or threaten ANYONE, she's not a burglar alarm and she's not a weapon to be used against a person or defend me... she's my friend and family member and if she ever showed aggression she would have to be put to sleep (Wow would I be devastated!). I could not "put her up for adoption" since I don't believe any dog (except trained Police canines) should ever show aggression to a person, if they do they cannot be trusted. Why would anyone keep a dog they could not trust? The pounds are full of great loving dogs, putting aggressive dogs (ANY BREED) to sleep is the right thing to do... AND PLEASE SPAY AND NEUTER!!! Sorry I had to throw that in :) Some of the most agressive dogs I've seen are the ones everyone "has to have"... Poodles and Jack Russel Terriers top the list, but because the bite is "not as serious as a large dog" people dismiss it as unimportant... more people buy them and more children are bit, they are dropped off at the shelter and the cycle starts again.

As for the neighbor having children, I don't believe she ever has or will... she's young enough to have some my sons age but she definitely has health issues. The walk from next door winded her and over the collar of her top you could see a major surgery scar, possibly heart surgery.... another reason that even while she yelled it was not hard for me to stay calm and continue to try to calm her down. One of my first thoughts when she left was that getting this upset couldn’t possibly be good for her.

One thing more, I am very sorry if my views are upsetting to anyone, I know I lecture too much... I just wish people were better educated before picking out that "cute puppy" and that the law would not make exceptions for ANY dog that is aggressive or bites.


This message was edited Oct 29, 2004 1:16 AM

Sad about the lady's scar and shortness of breath. We're only on this earth a short time...I really hope she will come around.
D.

Yes, I think about that too. I really can not help her, but I'll pray that the bitterness and distrust of people will leave her so she can be happy. People are so quick to anger, I try to teach my son that no problem is too big to solve if you can talk about it and that it's important to tell people your feelings about things that upset you. Somewhere along the line people stopped telling thier kids that, now it's an eye for an eye.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
(A favorite quote)

This message was edited Oct 29, 2004 1:37 AM

HAHAHAHA! Great quote.

A foot of land one way or the other doesn't matter in the long run. We bought our house not knowing that the neighbor had his gutters drained underground onto this land. We found it out and told him. Orig. owners (we bought from) didn't know about it. We've explained that we will let it be until we have to add a parking place next to the driveway. He knows it's illegal and that we cannot promise it will stay as is, forever. We bend a little now to ease the pain of the expense he will one day have to pay to correct his mistake. It works. We're friends. (And you should know that our lot is only 1/3 acre)!

Your neighbor-lady's health might have something to do with her un-neighborly-ness (bad wording, but you understand). She is carrying more scars than the one you glimpsed. She will see beautiful flowering vines next summer (and if they are fragrant...mmmmmmm). Eventually, there's hope for her attitude. Maybe a homemade apple pie a week before Thanksgiving, carried over by your son (with you staying several feet away), will be accepted. You can melt her heart if you are patient and the husband will follow. Keep praying and being an example of a good neighbor:)
Diane

You could have your son make her a finger painting. The little neighbor girl used to make them for me and they are so unique. I even framed some of them and had them in my kitchen.

I think for now the best thing I can do is stay away from her, this will give her some time to "cool off" and maybe eventually she won't be quite as upset about the fence. I don't think even beautiful flowers could melt her heart at this point, she needs time... things really are not much different right now than they were when she wasn't angry at us, they rarely ever are seen outside the house and never do you see them in the back yard. But as a consideration of their wish not to have anything permanent on the fence, I will only grow shrubs and sunflower/castor bean along it. They don't know annual from perennial and this way they won't have anything growing on "their" fence. Given the long seasons I think Castor Bean and Sunflowers should have plenty of time to get huge. The pretty vines I will use on the fence facing my rear neighbors (who are friendly), they have commented on how the yard is "so nicely landscaped now", I laughed and told them I've only just begun! They will appreciate my flowers and I will feel good sharing the beauty with them. Once those areas are "taken care of" I will need to start digging out the fence line on the left side, the right side has the "problem" neighbors, I have already prepared the rear and right side for planting removing the grass from a 1 ft strip the whole length of the fence.... oh, man, what work! I have met the neighbors on my left, across the street, and several from houses kitty corner or two away. Everyone here, besides the difficult neighbors, is great... very friendly and helpful. I guess I have a good neighborhood, there's always one bad apple; I guess I was just the unlucky one to have to live next to it.

This message was edited Oct 30, 2004 12:03 AM

You do know that every part of the castor bean plant is poisonous to humans and pets, don't you. I had my Dad plant one as a child. My kitten slept underneath it. One day he was found dead under the plant. I think he played with a seed pod or maybe even tried to eat part of it.
It is sort of a dangerous plant to use around children.
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/casoil32.html
You can also do a google search and find all sorts of mention of the plants poison. I myself would never grow it as even if you do not have a pet cat or dog, some stray could decide to sample it.

Crimson, you are a shining star. I think now the only thing you can do is send kind thoughts. Garden as you would do anywhere else and know there is nothing wrong with you [as there is nothing wrong with the neighbor]. To me flowers blooming and things to eat are true manefestations of God [which is ALL good]. enjoy the day
deidre

Yes, I know castor bean is poisonous. I have wild Datura along my back fence, they are also poisonous and I worry about that. I love the way Datura and Castor Beans look but worry that the neighbors dog may take a nibble. I think you may be right about it not being worth it, immagine how they'd feel if thier dog was to die, apparently poisoned... and I'd never be able to convince them it was a accident. Ah, once again I guess I'll have to give them up... too bad the wild Datura were doing so good there.