How do YOU check on contractors?

We're having our roof replaced, replacement windows intsalled, and a fence put up in our yard. I have a thread about the specifics of that stuff in the handyman forum, but I have a general question for you all.

When you've had work done, how have you learned about contractors, and how have you checked on them? I've been looking them up on the Better Business Bureau's website http://bbbonline.com , but wonder if anyone has more referall/review type sites which let you search local contractors.

Hey Kimberley - here's the list I use when looking up whether a business is actually in good standing with the State - in your case, Ohio :) It doesn't give you feedback, but it does allow you to know that their license is current which is very important for home improvement stuff should something go wrong!

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos//busiserv/index.html

If anyone else needs to look up the same info for any other State, just let me know and I'll provide that State's link :)

Dea, Could you please give me a link for California? We are going to have an air conditioner installed and I have checked BB but would like to check their license number.

Thanks, Kathy

I just had the stucco redone on my house and the exterior painted. The fellow who did it did my neigbors house. I doubt that he has a license. In California the license allows the contrator to put a lien on your property if there is a dispute over payment. Protects the contractor not the homeowner. The fellow with a license and a fancy contract would have just spray painted the entire house for the same price. With this fellow there was just a handshake.

The house looks beautiful and now we are going to have him texture and paint the interior just as soon as the weather cools off. I do not want to be cooped up in a smelly house while it is this hot.

I believe in seeing the work that the person has done for others. Yes not having a contract is a certain danger but having a contract does not ensure that things are done properly

Kimberly,

I went to google and did a search for my state by typing in this (with quotes) "Licensing + Washington State"

came up with this: http://www.dol.wa.gov/ (the home page for my state)

When I typed in "Licensing + Ohio" I came up with many different things, but these two off of just the first page of links I found interesting. You might type that same sequence in and look further.

http://www.business.com/directory/government_and_trade/by_country/united_states/state_and_local_government/ohio/state_agencies/

http://www.constructionweblinks.com/Industry_Topics/Licensing__Industry_Topics/Ohio__Licensing/ohio__licensing.html

Using the quote marks helps prevent 1,000's of possibilities to show up that don't concern both issues. You probably know that. I forget the name of it. Russ taught me that years ago, when it was used more, on a Alta Vista search engine. Doesn't work for all of them, but appears to in Google.

Karrie

Listen to your intuition about the character of people with whom you are thinking about doing business. I have the philosophy that if you behave as if you live in the best of all possible worlds that you will then bring the world closer to that ideal. Well, consequences of living like this have been huge - both positively and negatively. I won't give it up, but as I have aged I have become more mindful of risks in certain situations. Yes, some home contractors do come from hell. LOL

I didn't think about searching for licensing - thanks for that tip, you guys. Karen, the gut intuition I had about the estimator from one roofing company Friday was not good. Even though the roof is going to cost us the same nomatter who does it, we still want to choose a company which does really GOOD work and is reputable in instances of problems, too. We're trying to go locally if we can.

We're probably going to have the man who re-did our whole basement into my MIL's apartment do our windows. He said he should be able to do it for much less than any windows company because he can get them at his contractor's rate from a manufacturer, then charge us only his cost plus his labor. What a blessing that would be...We already know he does excellent work and is reasonable.

Check references; what other jobs have they done and for whom and check those places out
Talk to your neighbors, friends or whomever about contractors that they have used and if they where pleased with their work.
Also, when talking to contractors, ask them how long their work is guaranteed for and be sure to get Everything down in writing, dated and signed by the contractor before any work is done and a contractor should not get paid until all the work is completed unless you make other arrangements beforehand and contract is written out. Get written estimates.
Ask questions, lots of questions; jobs they have done, how long they have been in business and if they are licensed and another thing to check is, if they have ever had any lawsuits against them.

Here you go Kathy :)

http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/business.htm

Thank you Dea, it was very interesting one company I looked up was listed and the other not.

George, if it was just painting or stucco work I wouldn't be so choicey but this involves gas and electricity and this scares me. Of course, now it has cooled down so doesn't seem so important.

ck withBBB and does he have insurance that covers all the people who will be on your property

I worked for many successful years here in NC after I came back without state license or insurance and never had a bad job. I never advertised, all my jobs were by word of mouth, client to client.

Note: my NC contractor's license expired while I worked a few years in GA, never thinking I would come back. When I came back, they wanted $25,000 in liquid assets to take the test again, BUT they also allow any job up to $30,000 without a license as long as it is Permitted and Inspected. I do far better work than most licensed and insured contractors.

Lack of license or insurance does not mean a bad contractor, nor is proof of license and insurance a mark of a good one.

Kimberly, follow your gut instincts on the roofer!

Just a word. We are now in the process of reparing the mess from windows which were installed inproperly, by someone we know and have worked with before. Now this was done many years ago, but if the flashing had been properly installed (and sized), we would not have wood-rot and a chipmuck actually coming in through the rotted area...sure was a surprise to my housemate when she was here at the computer.
If we had to do over again, would be more knowledgeable about the process and hang around a bit. It will be interesting to find out just how the issue is going to play out with the guy we know>>! :(

Mercy, am I glad for folks like you. We were going to do vinyl windows because we thought there'd be less chance of them sticking like wood can in the winter. After reading what Darius wrote about the insulation value, however, I think we're reconsidering. I don't know the name of the company our friend the contractor uses (the man who redid our basement into the MIL suite).

License & Insurance mean nothing! Anyone can get a license. (You take a test, has nothing to do with your quality of work.) Insurance,? Just another place to get rid of your money. Guess who got all the rules run through state houses? Yes, insurance lobbies. Here in Minnesota, I haven't found an insurance man that can explain what the contractor insurance actually covers.
You just pay the high premiums because it's state law.
The best way to find a good contractor is to talk to someone who used the person or ask the contractor for references. Go look at their work. If they are good at what they do, they will be proud to show it off!
I have 3 brothers who are contractors, my sisters son is a furniture builder, my son & I do cabinets & building as a fill-in when gardening is slow. All of us get most of our work on word of mouth advertising.
Bernie

I am so glad to see others post about the licensing. Darius & Bernie hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Licensing only means that the county in which the contractor works will get their share of the taxes. Hank was a contractor for years and never licensed but when he did a job in Springfield OH (Clark county) he had to be licensed. He said a 10 year old could have passed the test. Hank never ever advertised either. All his work was word of mouth and that's the best you can go with.

uugggghhhh :( Apologies to all on the licensing issue.

Of course, word of mouth, for all craftsmanship is the very best. I was thinking pretty locally when mentioning the licensing stuff. Maryland has had some really nasty stuff with the elderly in the past being taken advantage of particularly with roof and window stuff.

Kimberley seems to be on the right path with going to a formerly trusted contractor :)

Again, sorry to any I offended!

Sheesh Dea, I didn't even see your post LOL...Didn't even offend me anyway :-)

Hey Kimberly, you might try this and I might be singing in the wind here. So anybody can jump in and correct me. I'd ask Hank but he isn't here right now. Anyway, check out Associated Builders and Contractors also known as ABC. If I remember correctly, this organization is nationwide and is like a pool. In other words, when people like you are looking for a reputable contractor, you can call them and they will give you names. On the flip side, the builders and contractors that belong have have several references???? I think...I just don't remember. Wouldn't hurt to check it out...

I found this article while searching just now -- thought it was pretty good. http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/real-estate/contractor1.asp

Oh, more good stuff: http://nari.org/level2/homeowners/ I'm posting these links here for myself and for anyone else who's in the process. It's handy having them in my thread! ;)

This message was edited Sep 12, 2004 7:48 PM

Hi GW, I feel your pain. We have dealt with 4 different contractors. 1 Good but not available very often. (He was the fire chief) Another good work but took too long to complete. Maybe showed to work here 1 day a week. Actually he's in jail now, but that's another story. Another for post and beam repair finished below estimate and we rehired him to install 2 windows. I would call him again. Another did 3 days of wiring, 2 guys, 5 hours/ day $900.00. YIKES. If you find somebody good for one job, ask who they recommendfor the other stuff. Even then you can get screwed. Best way is to find someone in town who had work done like you want, and ask them if the guys did a good job. If you ever move to Waldo county I can tell you who to see. Otherwise it's local. Frank

When I asked the roofing estimator who kinda gave me the willies about getting references, he shot back "we did both your mayor's house and your former mayor's house".

No offense to any mayors out there, but that doesn't mean they were savvy customers or even careful. They might have had hail damage, too, and gone with this company for its ease of working with the insurance company.

About the R-factor and such...Darius, do the following stats on this page mean anything to you? This is the maker one company we spoke to uses. Alside: http://www.alside.com/windows/data.htm

GW, I am not up on some of those stats anymore, i.e. what's a good number for air infiltation in a 25mph wind. I do know that generally the Low-E and argon-filled windows are better.

Why don't you look up similar stats on a really good window like Marvin, and stats on really cheap windows to get a range? Then you'd have a better idea of how this particular window company compares.

GW, the R factor is about how well the window is insulated. Pella will tell you they build the best windows (and the most expensive) on the market and the reason they say that is bc they have the best R factor. In our first home, we built a room addition and put in Anderson windows and doors. When we built our first home, we went with all Pella windows because based on all their specs, etc., it was the best window on the market. One set of windows was western exposure and rotted at 12 years. Hank rebuilt the window himself. When we built this house, we went back to Anderson and did get the Low E and argon filled. One of the panes in the windows upstairs cracked at 11 years old (from pressure) and Anderson replaced it, no questions asked, didn't send a rep out or anything. Darius is right, Low E and argon-filled are better BUT, :-), and this is where I feel really sorry for homeowners because you are given so much information and if you're not in the business, you just have to go with your gut. I personally would not go with Marvin windows. But again, that's a personal opinion. I'm not saying Darius is wrong and I'm right, I'm just saying I wouldn't buy Marvin windows. It's sort of like if I come to you and ask all these computer questions and then I ask someone else and their opinion is not the same as yours. Ultimately, I have to make the decision on my own. Neither advice was wrong or bad, sometimes it's just personal preferance. Even the cheapest built windows are expensive and cost is a factor, but windows, to me, are a permanent object. They are something you don't want to replace in your lifetime. I hope your re-modeling project goes smoothly.

Vic... I wouldn't buy Marvin windows either, LOL. I was suggesting GW look at various window companies for specs on infiltration as well as U values so she'd have an idea about the windows from the company she posted above.

In my home I completely renovated in Annapolis on the water, I chose all new Pella windows and 8' x 8' sliders (4 pair) and I loved them but I was only there 2 years after installation so I don't know how well they strood up in the long run.

I personally believe Pella has come down a lot in quality since then (1978), and certainly down in price. However, they do offer a reasonable quality for the price, at least the ones Home Depot carries for the contractor and home-owner trade. Like anything, you get what you pay for (usually) and really good windows are not cheap.

I could have replaced 12 large double-hung windows on a job in Asheville 2 years ago for well under $200 per window with Pella replacements with clad wood exteriors. Don't remember if we priced Low-E or Argon, though, as I didn't get the job. Homeowner decided not to replace windows after all, but after spending over $40,000 with me on other renovations, it was okay with me.

I agree with you about Anderson's policy about replacing windows. They do so without a murmer, even if the windows have been in for many years.

Window decisions are frightful enough... then there's installation with proper flashing. I think that's where many windows fail... installation error, much more difficult in renovation that new construction.

We have so many friends and family that do this type of work, I've never had to look for a stranger to fix or remodel. Don't have a clue if any of them are licensed or bonded....but our work got done on time and to beautiful standards each time.

We used Weather Shield windows in our home....(This Old House show uses them) They stood up to golf ball sized hail coming in horizontally without a flicker. They were the single most expensive purchase I made for our house.

We're 90% sure our friend John will do the windows and....Our kitchen. We nixed the privacy fence plans in favor of getting new cabinets and counter! We're used to having to walk the dogs in all weather, anyway, and we can always get a fence later. This is the perfect time to replace the cabinets, though, since the windows are being done. We're probably going with Lowe's stock cabinets in the Hudson maple line, and their stock laminate countertops since they're in our budget right now. Here's a layout I did with Ikea's kitchen designer software.

This is our existing configuation:

Here's the one we're planning and getting John to give us an estimate for his labor - we'll get the cabinets and counters ourselves and he'll install them. The cabinet over the fridge is not 24" deep as shown - it's going to be the standard 12" deep over-fridge cabinet.

Oh -- question. Is it better to put a new linoleum floor in while the kitchen is empty, or to put in the new cabinets and then put it in?

Oh, another "iffy" question, GW!

IF the toe boards on your new cabinets are solid wood (not veneered particle board or MDF), I'd put the flooring down first. It makes cleaning under and behind the appliances and the flooring doesn't curl up against the cabinets.

If they are MDF or particle board, water from washing the floor will eventually seep into them, swell them and render them useless.

A shoe moulding against them at the edge of the flooring helps in either case.

Our first floor was put down and then the cabinets were placed over them....we have since changed floors in our kitchen and they now come just to the cabinet edge.

Hello Kimberly, The following is a post I made in reply to a fellow mom looking for a tree guy. While it is slightly different, some info is very relevant

----------------------------
I had a total of 30 pines and 2 sweet gum trees taken down over the course of a year by Sherman Smith of Cobb Tree Service. I cannot recommend him. Here are some things I hope will help.

Valid Insurance is a must.
Our tree guy did the first part of the removal and did an excellent job. He climbed trees and took the tops off before he safely dropped them. The second time around, we didn't even get a second quote because he had done such a great job the first time and we had priced around the first time. The second time around he priced much higher and he did not climb any trees and dropped them all from the base and let them land where they may. Not that my driveway is new or anything, but I have two large gashes in the concrete where he dropped a tree and it bounced.

Watch all the work as its being performed and don't be afraid to speak up and put a stop to something.
The second time around, our tree guy took the liberty of cutting down a huge limb from a hardwood belonging to our neighbor. It was "in his way" This is a beautiful, old tree and if my neighbors had been someone else, I think it could have brought on a lawsuit. I was shocked to see them cutting it down without having asked the owners permission first. They climbed through their yard and cut it down to drop my pines easier. They then proceeded to drop the pines into my neighbors hardwood anyway and it got wedged for a few hours...and they further mangled the hardwood getting it out the pine...They would not have spent as much time if they just would have cut it down from the top as they should have.

Our tree guy was taking down a tremendously huge sweet gum that was leaning into my home and over the master bedroom. He came to the door and asked that I get the kids and come outside (in the middle of nap time). When I asked him why he showed me how he had tied a rope from the bobcat to the tree and they were going to cut the entire thing down at the base. I said that there was no way they could do anything that was going to endanger my home... and he assured me that the rope would hold and I let him proceed. I stood at the front of the street and watched in horror as I saw this monster of a tree start to fall into my house. (My husbands childhood home) Thankfully, the rope did hold, and it bounced back toward the street. I slept poorly the entire weekend thinking that I had just almost watched my entire home get destroyed and I had not been strong enough to tell them to cut it from the top and work their way down. I allowed the wellbeing of my home to literally hang by a rope. Never again. My husband made it a point to be home and take off work for the removal of a huge pine that was very close to the home.

If you have hardwoods you want to save, make a provision in the contract that you will deduct X amount of $$ from the job should they destroy your hardwoods. They destroyed a large oak by dropping a pine into it and didn't care. Also, if they are using a bobcat, you must protect the root systems of delicate trees you are keeping like dogwoods, or else they will get clipped and die after they have been paid and are gone. Do not allow them to backfill or dump any wood mulch/soil on the top of any existing root system. If you would like to see an example of this dead tree thing- call me.

When you get a quote, have each and every individual tree priced out for the entire job so that you can get them off your premises and pay them what you owe should you decide you do not want them to finish the job.

Do they use an experienced crew or day labor they pick up the morning of? Tree removal is a very hazardous profession and you do not want an injured uninsured individual suing your homeowners policy. I have used guys who sometimes work as day labor myself for laying sod, so I don't have a problem with that...but tree removal work is dangerous. If they use day labor, is it just for picking up limbs or what?

Do not pay for the entire job up front!! We paid a guy to take down a tree a few years back and the pine sat and sat in our driveway for weeks because he had already been paid in full. If they need a percentage, pay as you go, and do not give full amount till job is completed to your satisfaction.

How long have they been doing this? Find out! don't take their word for it. My original landscaper lied to me and said she had been doing this for 20 years. All indications, including her work, business license, membership in the better business bureau, and former employee, state two years experience- three max. I only found this out after the fact and could have easily done my homework instead of being so naive and trusting ( I expect others to be like me!)

Get references.... Not the ones they have typed up on a pretty sheet-- like their aunt Sue in Canton-- Ask for the last five jobs they did and the last huge job (like yours) they did and go see it for yourself. Honestly, I did have someone call me for a reference and I just couldn't speak to the guy since I couldn't believe it, and handed the phone to my husband who is much nicer than I am. If he had personally come to my home and asked, I would have given him an earful.

Take pictures of all your property before the job.

If he pulls up in a sports car and looks like he wrestles in the WWF, and say's "don't worry about it" every time you ask a question- don't hire him (At least I figured that one out beforehand)


I have more....but hope this helps you get started.
Good Luck

Susan McCoy

GOOD info. Thank you, Susan!

We decided on a roofer and signed a contract today. It's an established company in Columbus with an excellent record both for workmanship and customer service. We got an estimate for replacement windows, too. They're reasonable, and I'm checking out the actual window products they use.

The manufacturer, Alside in Akron, Ohio, is a long-time member of the BBB and seems to address complaints okay, judging from posted numbers at the BBB site. I'm looking for more anecdotal evidence from people who have experienced issues with the windows and dealt with the manufacturer for resolutions while in warranty.

I know a guy that hired some people to cut down some trees for him. They drank beer the whole time they were using the chain saws, and then cut down his neighbor's favorite tree. ouch.

H'mmm. I begin to see WHY I do all my own work...even though I complain bitterly about having to!

Hey, we would if we could, believe me. With Howie's bad back (1994 injury and 1996 surgery) and my had back and hand, we're limited as to what we can realistically do ourselves. We choose our battles wisely, LOL!

By the way, I am a board member of the Oregon Landscape Contractors Board that test and licenses all landscape contractors in Oregon. We were unified with - but are now independent of, the Oregon Construction Contractors Board which licensed all other building contractors from handyman to builders of high rise.

It is my opinion that the Better Business Bureau is basically useless, except in a few cases.

As long as a contractor does not get caught, he can maintain a clean record with almost any organization.

At least in Oregon, California and a few other places, the boards can insure the bond and insurance. The boards handle claims, and since those can go to hearing with both parties present, that claim record would mean more than an accumulation of home owner opinions whether correct or incorrect.

What I do, I usually find contractors through friends that are contractors in another field, or have hired contractors.

Sometimes I go to the local hardware stores and ask the old timers who they know to be credible and in the trade for a long season.

Also, I know for a fact that a claim does not mean a contractor is bad.

Our board can override a judges decision, and we had to review a case where a judge ruled for the home owner. The contract - signed - said that the boulders the landscaper was to put in, were to be at least 800 pounds. And that's exactly what the contractor did. He fulfilled the contract. But the judge ruled for the homeowner because the home owner was under the impression that the boulders were supposed to be larger (diameter) than what went in.

We ended up supporting the judge because new evidence could not be introduced, and the contractor did not appear. But we were aware that the landscaper fulfilled the contract. We suspected that there was conversation before signing the contract that we did not know about, that maybe the judge heard witness testimony for.

Anyway, don't assume that a claim means bad work. Even one of our board members was on the losing end of a claim once. I think he forgot to file an appeal before the deadline, so time ran out for him to bring it before a hearing officer, judge or the board.

Speaking of boards - I crunched my schedule to travel for our meeting way down in Coos Bay on the Oregon coast this coming Friday. We don't get paid, so I donate at least one day out of work to go to a meeting, but two days if its so far away. I'm going to skip I - 5 and head west to follow the ocean route on Hy. 101 to take photos. Right this minute, I've got my second of three sets of Nickel Metal Hydride batteries in the charger.

I am a contractor...yes, women ARE contractors! I was building a house for some folks and they hired an inspector to look over each area as the county came to OK it. It worked out very well. It didn't cost them much, and my only extra duty was to call the inspector to alert him to when the county inspectors were coming. So they were only charged for the time he was actually on the site. I resented it at first, but then realized they were saving me problems down the road...I could talk to him whereas the clients screamed about things they knew nothing about. That is precisely what I would do...find a good building inspector in the private sector and hire him to oversee the job for you.

Dale, glad to see another woman in this business! I'm more or less retired now but have a long history of contracting.