Understanding Searches

Is there a description of how the forum and PDB search engine here works?

I tried a couple forum searches for a topic I am sure has been discussed. I tried a couple variations of "shallow root tree" but did not get any hits (note, I did not enter any quotes in the search text box). So I played around a little. I previously posted a thread that starts with the phrase " I am considering a mass of daylilies to surround...". A search for "mass of daylilies" turns up this thread but if I remove "of" and search for just "mass daylilies" I get no hits.

Is this how the forum search is supposed to work? Looks like you have to enter an exact phrase.

I have also been frustrated with the PDB search in the past. I would expect that adding more strings to the search would narrow down the results, but instead it adds more. For example, say I want to get info on a Hydrangea 'Nikko Blue'. Searching on "hydrangea" returns 398 plants. Searching on "hydrangea nikko" returns 385 plants (odd) and searching on "hydrangea nikko blue" returns 1,311 plants. While playing around I did notice that a search on "nikko blue" only returns one plant and I also noticed that the desired plant did tend to be towards the top of the search results.

- Brent

The DG search box is a literal exact search and really won't be changing from that.

Time and time again I have considered removing the DG search and replacing it with a site search offered by google, like this:

http://lxer.com/~dave/dave.html

Each time I try it, it's not perfect, but it does seem to me to be slightly better than what we have now.

dave

mmmm, any reason why not use Google's search engine? Seems to work pretty good... (she says in a small voice....) Out of curiosity, can you also construct it to provide radio buttons to search the PDB, GWD and GBW? Or just www or DG?

I have thought it would be mahhhhvelous if the PDB search engine's results delineated between exact matches and "did you mean" or something similar.

Thus, a search for Nikko Blue would be prefaced with "1 plant was found that exactly matched your search terms."

And a search for Hydrangea Nikko Blue would return results prefaced by "No exact matches were found, but 1,311 plants contain one or more of the words included in your search. Try searching again, with fewer words to narrow your search or use the browse feature (with a hyperlink to the tools.)"

I'd love to switch to the Google search engine. Do you remember the last time I did? Nobody liked it. It was setup for the PDB and wasn't very well received.

Maybe my memory is bad? What do you think about the link I sent?

dave

I checked out the link, dave. Typed in Horseshoe and all kinds of stuff came up about me at DG.

Don't know how it would work in the PDB.

(It was also very fast!) However, I don't seem to be frustrated with the DG search.

Is it impossible to use both, giving folks a choice or 'second chance' to find something?

Searched pages from davesgarden.com for pdb search. Results 1 - 10 of about 1,280. Search took 0.78 seconds.

I used your link and typed in pdb search. looks like the topic has been brought up a lot!

Well, I remember we had to buy a lot more cheese during that time; I guess it went well with the wine, errr, whine. (Sorry!!! Couldn't resist ;o)

Just some random thoughts:

a) Might not hurt to try again. The site keeps growing with more users, and people's tastes change - who knows? It might be a hit this time around.

b) Can we use Google for only DG-based searches (even if they wind up searching out through the GWD and PDB? (Although I don't know why we wouldn't use the same search engine throughout all the sites.)

c) I like 'shoe's idea - can we do both? A literal search (and maybe tell users it will only find exact matches) and if that doesn't return results, offer them the Google search option?

The search in the link is definitely more useful to me for searching the forums. I am much more likely to search on a topic using a few keywords than an exact phrase. It would be nice to be able to narrow the search to a specific forum. Does the linked page search across a thread or individual posts? The format of the results is not as nice as the existing search. What did people complain about with the Google search? The ads?

About the PDB search...It seems to work fine now that I am getting to understand it. It just is a little surprising that a search for "rudbeckia indian summer" returns 539 plants but a search for "indian summer" only returns 4 plants. I would suggest a "search tips" link that would explain a little bit about how the search works and tips on getting better results.

- Brent

Let's leave the PDB search engine alone (since it's pretty good and still has room for improvement in line with my skills).

I have changed the DG search engine to the google link. Let's see if anyone complains. :)

The GWD... I think a Google-enabled search engine might be a good idea and I'm still considering that. Google would also index the comments, which would be nice to be able to search.

dave

not complaining dave, just stating a preference. I like the old search. you could search by which forum you know the post is in, and the current search shows only the first post, where your old search let us skip to first mention of search word.

How about allowing the user to choose between the two?

Hmmmm. I would say we're talking about very different needs from two sets of very different users:

members (most likely long-time members) who *know* a thread exists, and remember a bit about it (enough to do an exact word/phrase search)

versus

members (newer or not) who have no idea WHAT threads (if any) exist on a particular topic - for them, an exact word/phrase search is too limiting.

The original search is still available by clicking on "Search" in the menu box. The testing google search is available from the search box under the menu.

If it doesn't go well, we'll get rid of it (or, give both as an option, which seems odd, but might be the best choice)

dave

ah, thanks. and I have to admit, I do know where a lot of old threads are, but not always. but I can just about pin it down to a few forums, and I like being able to do that. thanks!