toxic plants - code of conduct

It is quite possible that we may fall (metaphorically) on plants that may prove toxic : poisonous (I mean those that can be used to produce a poison), containing drugs, causing hallucinations etc. Their picture, description, growing techniques etc. may be used for evil purpose.

In such a case what is the attitude we should keep?
All things said here can be traced through Google -
perhaps there should be some "controlled access pages"??

Dave - and any of you that know or think about it- please let me know.

Dimitri

Dimitri: Just take the high road(no pun intended). If you know how to get a buzz chewing pumkin seeds, or whatever that doesn't mean that information has to be posted. Besides all this information is already available on the net. No useful purpose would be served by putting up a long list of plants that can stun or kill but believe me, it's a long one! No offense meant, but people that do those things are gonna do them.

This message was edited Thursday, Jun 7th 7:15 PM

This message was edited Thursday, Jun 7th 7:17 PM

I get the feeling Dimitri's post was misunderstood; I think Dimitri was more concerned that such information should not be included on the public areas of DG because some searchers would use the info for a bad end. Am I correct in assuming this is what you're pondering, Dimitri?

umm why should we limit ourselves ? inevitably plants come up in discussion that are harmful ,this information is freely available elsewhere on the net and in books too lol
as long as we dont give out recipes....
(conatct me privately for those - LOL )

Ivey, thank you for your comments, but I don't understand completely what you mean.
GW, (Hi!! long since we last exchanged opinions!!) I agree with the way you put it.
Ribbitcat, my point goes deeper, for example:
it would no doubt be interesting (at least to me as a doctor) to discuss about the plant that Amazone natives use to make a potion of truth: if you lie and you drink it, you die. This was believed to be fictitious, until it was found that the concoction contained substances synergic (= enhancing a lot the action) to adrenaline. The liar dies (=high adrenaline), the sincere is unharmed (=low adrenaline)
would you present this plant? exchange seeds?
Dimitri

This message was edited Friday, Jun 8th 9:35 AM

Hey Dimitri,

Chill out.

I understand your concerns, but if you are a serious seed or plant trader you have a responsibility to research what you are offering. If it is toxic in any way, tell the potential recipient. If you warn them and they still want to go ahead, well..... pass the Scotch bottle and fags please !!

El Tel

This message was edited Friday, Jun 8th 2:49 PM

Dimitri,

You raise a lot of valid points in this, but in a real-life situation, what can we do?

As others have said, it is useless for us to attempt to stimy these kinds of discussions. A seeker of this kind of knowledge will find the information they need, with or without our help.

At the same time, we are exchanging information that is both of interest, and of importance, to us as gardeners.

It's a tough call to make.

dave

Dimitri,

There are many plants already in the horticultural trade with toxic properties to people and/or to pets. I see no reasonable way to "police" ourselves. Perhaps a hyperlink should accompany DG leading to the many federal, state and private web sites listing these plants (and animals too.)

Marsh

Personally, I'm GLAD the information is available, concerning poisonous plants, so I know what I'm dealing with. If being informed, equates with a danger in what people will do with that information....I think you're taking the saying "ignorance is bliss" to a paranoid extreme!!!

Well, I need to know, for instance, that lily of the valley, and rhubarb leaves and stalks,and potato sprouts can be poisonous--don't want my dog eating them, or grandchildren of anyone to whom I might give the plant/seed. And I remember my grandparents' warning me not to play with/eat anything from a castor bean plant in the yard, and camping/cooking websites warning not to use oleander branches or sticks for campfire marshmellow grilling. Some knowledge is necessary. (I do think it unwise of one senior housing center South of Market in San Francisco CA to have a datura in their enclosed patio garden since many of the senior residents have visiting small grandchildren whom they often babysit, but then the residents seem aware of the prominent plant's danger...still, it seems unwise. But my cultural/ethnic traditions are different from the majority ethnic group residing there. Perhaps that makes a difference, perhaps not.)
And perhaps I should know of any easily spreading plants that might be toxic to horses, so I don't plant them too near a neighbor's yard where horses are kept.
Concerning other uses of toxicological plants--no need to give out such recipes or detailed how-to-poison info, perhaps.
Anyone remember in the late sixties/early seventies when the rumor went around that morning glory seeds were to be treated by seed companies to render their use for hallocinogenic (spelling?) purposes futile?
I suppose mystery writers can use the web to get what knowledge they need for writing a murder mystery based on the use of a commonly grown but toxic plant. And if someone is inclined to the use of a plant for evil purposes, they will probably find the information whether we post a specific plant warning or not; mentioning the danger is not advocating it.
Personally, I'm more concerned about ignorance, misinformation, and pesticide drift.

If any of you read the book "The Name Of The Rose" by Umberto Ecco (or saw the film with Sean Connery) may recall that in the monastery there was a library with forbidden books, that the monks had no access to.
It looks to me that I am going to carry such a library inside my mind for things that may prove dangerous...
I may come across the plant that yields conium, the poison given to Socrates. I may even find how it can be prepared - things that will not be revealed ; this is very unscientific, but again this place is not a University. Not to mention that even in Universities the "dangerous" toxicologic chapters are meticulously hidden away....

In conclusion, I can say we all carry out the sense that guides us as to where the borderline should be drawn. I just wanted your ideas on the matter.

And if any of you thought I know about conium, rest assured - I don't. After all, I am a doctor. Hippocrates said about medicine "doing good or at least not harming"

End of thread - from me at least.

Many thanks to all who spent their time about it.

Dimitri