"Sick" yard - where to start??

Hello -

I have a dog (acquired in last 4 months) that was never sick a day in his life till he came to live with me. In the last 4 weeks he has become seriously ill....but only as long as he is at my home. When we remove him from the environment, he returns to normal within 24 hours (tried and proven twice).

Symptoms are severe gastrointestinal type. My vet has talked to the well-renowned vet school she went to, and they say that the symptoms sound a lot like arsenic poisoning.

Home history: 5 year old brick home in Texas. No new products used in home/no carpet cleaned, etc.

Yard: When we moved into this home, we had about 15 truck loads of sand from a creekbed brought in and spread about.

About a month ago, we fertilized with a general 30-4-5 fertilizer, and it rained about 3 inches on it immediately.

Also, since we have lived here, I have lost two other dogs at young ages to unusual illnesses - thought it was just coincidence, but now I wonder.

I don't even know where to start in trying to get a handle on what could be going on - could the soil that we brought in have heavy metals in it? Could fertilizing it have made the metals more available?

My dog's acute symptoms began about 3 days after fertilizing, but he had some very subtle symptoms before that.

Any and all thoughts/suggestions are welcome, as I am just unbelievably frustrated and don't even know where to begin in trying to figure this out!

Thanks!
Hope

Can you get your soil analyzed? Doesn't pressure treated lumber contain poisons? Sounds awfully frustrating. Hope your dog gets better soon.

Hope,

My mother (who lives in 79605) just called me about Swiffers- apparently they have a chemical in them very close to anti-freeze and if the pups lick their feet, they can get fatally ill.

Also, please know that I know for fact of a family in Abilene who had to have every item in their house, including china, photographs and family silver, put in barrels to be placed in hazardous waste facilities forever because the builder of their house poured so much insecticide on the concrete foundation of the house, the whole family was slowly being poisoned. The EPA was called in and it was kept very quiet. It is a house in the Lytle area which has since been re-sold, believe it or not.

I think that you can call the county ag agency and they can do tests on soil and foundations. There are so many variables here. Like which creekbed did the sand come form? Was it an area where they do plating or work with car batteries? Do you live in an area that might have been a dump in its past? Methane will rise above our breathing level but some waste gases hang down lower- some might hang down right at a dogs level.

It could be a run of bad luck with pets but you have to think about yourself too and just be really cautious. And never forget to talk to your neighbors. They might have had similar problems and think that it was just them.

Best of luck and I hope it all is okay.

Whew! You may have a BIG problem, but I certainly pray that you don't.

We, as a People, just don't get it about poisonous materials, and dumping. We are just glad to have the cheap product with no thoughts about the toxic waste being produced and what it does to us.

Fortunately, more and more of us gardeners are going Organic and finding natural ways to fertilize without using toxic chemicals.

By the way, have you seen the information posted by ZZTOPSOIL about Miracle-Gro? Probably holds true for many fertilizers.
http://davesgarden.com/t/382170/miracle-Gro#first

Wow - you all mirror my thoughts exactly - there are so many variables and I don't even know where to begin.

Today I spent a long time calling labs and the county agent - that was a joke - not helpful at all. Testing the soil for heavy metals - it has to be done one metal at a time - $50 each. I'm willing to go that route if I could narrow it down to the soil.

We are going to bring my dog home (he's perfectly fine now that he's away) and set up a miniature "yard" on the back porch with sod squares for "outside duties" and see how he does. He will remain inside the rest of the time. At the first sign of loss of appetite he will be removed. If he does not get sick, then I can assume it's the yard.

Basically, I have to narrow it down to "is it the yard, or is it in the house".

One thing that was suggested to me today was sewer gases. Indeed, I do have a large garden tub I never use, and also a sink in the master bath that I never use - I have been negligent about running water regularly to keep the traps filled (done now).

I'm wondering if it could be sewer gases that are heavy and sinking down to "dog level" in the house. (We have a septic system)

As to determining whether the house could have been "overtreated" with pesticides......how do you find that out??????

The home is built on property that was previously ag use.

Thanks for all of the feedback......I really appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts and knowledge!
Hope

Hope -- what an absolutely difficult thing to withstand. Your poor puppy.....and to think that his (her) illness could be a warning to you of a harmful environment to you and your family.

My gut tells me you should go on the suggestion from the vet - arsenic poisoning. Is there any test they can run on the dog to measure the levels of arsenic in its system? I know it sounds silly but on those TV investigative shows they always are doing tests to determine the level of poison in murder investigations. Can they do a blood test perhaps?

Also, could you pay the $50 to have the soil tested for arsenic? At least it would be one test that would be done based on an educated guess rather than just willy-nilly doing chemical/heavy metal tests one by one.

Is radon a concern in your area? It could be high levels in your home that the dog is responding to and have yet to have an affect on you or other humans. I know in our area we can buy radon test kits at the local home improvement or hardware stores.

Please keep us posted. I'll pray that you find the culprit and that your pet recovers fully and most importantly that you or your family doesn't suddenly come down with similar symptoms.

Best of luck,
Brenda

Hope, how scary. You might want to post or put a link to this thread in the pet forum. Palmbob, one of our resident vets, gives generously of his time and advice over there. I wish he lived in Florida! :)
Good luck with your baby, I hope everything works out for all of you.

Is it possible that you have a neighbor that doesn't like dogs? The reason I ask is that my sister had a crazy neighbor that would throw poisoned meat over her fence. My sister had to watch her dogs very carefully and finally had to build a higher fence and put in a surveillance system.

Hope, I just read this thread and am wondering if children play in this yard. If so, are they ok? The Health Department might have some ideas if people are involved. Have you lived there long? What about previous occupants? You could also check to see where the sand came from, possibly the hauling company has records. If there were chemicals used in the area the sand might be contaminated with something that does not go away quickly. Other people may have sand from the same place and might also be having the same problems. Just some ideas to try to help you find out what it is.

Thanks so much to all of you for your support and input!

Will try to answer some of your questions.

First....no, I have no small children who play on the yard (thank goodness). We live in a rural area (10 acres), and know our neighbors well, also, my dog was debarked as a puppy (by his previous owner) - so barking is not an issue - he truly has not been spending time outside unsupervised since he became ill.

The fenced area that is the yard is not large.....just an average sized back yard.

I have never heard of radon in this area, but realize that doesn't necessarily mean anything!

We have lived in this house for 5-1/2 years, and it was new when we purchased it....so that pretty much eliminates lead and asbestos.

Tonight we brought my dog home to see if we can determine if it's the house or the yard - he will have no access to the yard/grass at all - we have built a temporary fenced grassy area on the back porch for necessary trips outside.

I believe if it's the house we'll know quickly, because last time he came home from the first trial away he became ill within 24 hours. At the first sign of any illness, I will remove him from my home.

If it looks like it's the yard I will send off a soil sample to Texas A&M and have it tested for arsenic....at least for starters.

Will definitely keep you all posted on how it's going, as I may need more ideas and thoughts! Thanks again......
Hope

It's me again......it appears to be something in the house.

We brought my dog home last night and within 12 hours he is not eating, and we can hear his stomach rolling. This is how it starts when he gets so sick - he is out of the house.

I truly don't even know where to begin - I have a call in to a friend who owns a restoration service, and plan to make other calls after I talk to them.

Trying not to panic here, but my two teenage daughters will also be removed from the house today.

Ironically.....my youngest daughter was diagnosed as being bipolar in the fall of this year, and the doctor just kept saying that she just doesn't "fit the mold". Also, within the last month, both my husband and I have had very weird allergic reactions to something.......his was just this past weekend and he had to go to the ER.

Now, in looking back, we are wondering if some things could all be related to this......and realize that we have got to figure this out ASAP.

Gotta go for now -
Hope

Bless your heart! Will be praying for answers for you and your family!

Good luck. It sounds like you are taking the necessary steps to protect your family.

I don't know much about outdoor pollutants that could be fatal, but I know a thing or two about indoor ones ..... This is where being a chemist for a living is actually helpful.

Test for Radon

Test for Carbon Monoxide

Test for Natural gas leaks

Test for overactive Mold Spore Growth

Call somebody to test for excess "aromatic compounds", like styrene, in your carpeting

http://www.environmentalnetwork.com/env_cons/TX/tx_ec_index.asp

This looks like a pretty extensive list of environmental companies in TX. I see at least one in your town. Call! Do not delay! For the safety of your four legged family members, as well as the two-legged ones.

Wow, how scary! I don't think I saw moulds mentioned above. It could be another good thing to check out. Good Luck and God Bless!!

Wish you luck. Keep us posted. This must be a scarey time for all of you.

Oh, Hope. This is so scary!

Please email me if you would like for me to ask my mother for suggestions on the testing. She actually did the appraisal in that house I was telling you about by Lytle Lake.

All of my best,
Michelle

Thank goodness you are on the right track to finding out what this is. Not knowing is sometimes the hardest part of any problem. Good luck with a diagnosis.

Hello - thought I would update everyone as to where we are on this issue.

No solution as of yet.

We have gone through this house wall to wall looking for any sign of mold/water leakage, and have found nothing. The general consensus is that the symptoms just don't really fit mold, and that unless we've had a slow water leak that it's just not likely, but we've looked at everything nevertheless.

We have spoke to one environmental consultant, and waiting on a call-back from another.

One thing that's been mentioned (as a remote possibility) is Chlordane - this is an insecticide that was banned in '88 - they used to drench the soil before they poured a slab to prevent termites. Even though it was banned, it's not totally out of the question that someone may have had several barrels of it that they wanted to get rid of.

I spoke to a toxicologist in San Antonio that specializes in testing for this, and he even agreed that it would be a very remote possibility, but we could certainly test for it. It's a fairly expensive test.

The problem is finding someone that has equipment to test for any of these things - very frustrating.

As to things like the carpet - haven't found anyone that can test for something like that.

We thought we may have hit on a possibility in our fireplace - we have a woodstove insert, and backdrafting has always been a problem that we have to crack windows until it gets going - but everyone we've talked to doesn't think that could be an issue unless there's actually a fire going and it's the smoke coming into the house - my husband is gone right now to talk to the company that installed it.

We found someone that works in the oil and gas pipe industry that actually had a geiger counter - we borrowed that yesterday and went over the house last night - nothing (thank goodness).

On Monday my husband is going to Midland, Tx - where there are many more environmental consultants - he is going to try to talk to some that are there, and see if we can get any more suggestions on what to look for.

That's about it for now - we keep searching!

Hope

Hope, since it's in your house, could it be something you clean with?

Did the consultants rule out radon and carbon monoxide?

Carbon monoxide has been ruled out - we have a detector for the fireplace, and this is an all-electric home.

We are getting a radon test on Monday - but it will take a few days to get results.

As to it being something that I clean with - I don't have any idea what it could be. I do not use strong chemicals - mop with vinegar, then with fresh water - don't put anything on the carpet, and it hasn't been cleaned since we move in.

Can' be the water - last time he was home I gave him bottled water.

I would think that it could possibly be something that THIS dog is sensitive to.....but the probability is there that whatever this is also made my other dog sick - to the point that we had to have her put to sleep.

I mean, what are the chances that I would have two young dogs that would become ill with such similar symptoms within the space of a year? I ask myself this over and over, and keep coming up with the same thing - it's just too overwhelming to be just coincidence.

Thanks to everyone for your support and thoughts and suggestions! I appreciate it!

Hope

Hope this has to be so frustrating. Have you called the vet back to pick his/her brain?

You have mail ;)

Wow! I am so sorry to read of all of your troubles and trials within your home. The place you expect to feel the safest. My sister underwent somewhat of the same ordeal a few years ago and it turned out to be something in the insulation that they used when they built her house. Not that I am even suggesting that this would be you problem.
I am very concerned that it is not just your dog but your family as well. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you play detective and track down the source of all of these problems.Hopefully someone soon willl have an exact answer and hopefully a solution for you. D

Gosh, I sure feel for you. How frustrating to just not know what the problem's source is! :( Praying a solution is found, and soon.

By the way, the warning about Swiffer products and pets is yet another hoax: http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/swiffer.asp

(Personally, I think it's just more people trying to drag P&G in the mud like they have from the 1970's on with their nonsense. But that's for another thread.)

I've been watching to find out how this has resolved. Does anyone know? Surely hope so.

Barbara

I've been curious too....?

Me three!! I hope the problem was easily resolved?!?

My goodness. I can't even imagine dealing with this kind of predicament. How's it going?

I have emailed her but haven't heard anything- I will let you know when I do. She was getting some testing done as far as I know.

Hi all -

Thank you all for your kindness and concern. I really know nothing new - just when we thought it was totally clear that the problem was "in" the house, the picture became muddy again, as the dog became sick in another location.

This does not mean that it is not related to our environment, as it could still be a parasite or bacteria of some sort, but at least it appears that it is not some form of gas or pesticide seeping up through the slab.

The vet is trying a couple of new treatments on the dog, and in the meantime we have consulted with several air quality specialists - we are at the point where we would be looking at bringing someone in from about 200 miles away to do air testing.

We do not feel that we can justify this until we absolutely rule out a quirky health problem with the dog, and have decided that at this point it will be more affordable to test the dog than to test the house.

At least we do not feel that our family is in danger from this, as we first feared.

Thanks again for all of your concern, and I will try to do a better job of keeping everyone posted as this mystery evolves!

Hope

Golly Hope, this has to have you, your family and your vet completely frazzled at this point. I sure hope they find the source of the mystery and soon for your peace of mind and so you life might return to normal. Certainly, your poor doggie is suffering the most in all of this and I look forward to hearing "the rest of the story" once it becomes clear. You're in my thoughts. Brenda

Just the dog is sick, not any of the people? I hope this turns out to be something simple, and that you find out soon, this has been going on quite a while so you must be pretty stressed from it all.

Thank you, Hope, for advising us. I agree with langbr and MaryE and pray the situation will be corrected and your dog well and happy again. I am praying for you and the vet to get this all unravelled. Thanks also to Daisy for emailing Hope.

Hoping for Hope---

Barbara