Botanary anecdote (slightly off-colour)

I am fairly new to the site and have only gradually been exploring its riches. Today I read the item in the Botanary about the pronunciation of latin not being important.

I am no latin scholar so cannot comment, but I was reminded of a story told by a gardening expert on British television some years ago. It appears that in the 80s, there was delegation that came to Britain from some learned Hungarian botanical institute led by some Professor or other.

Conventionally the genus Pinus is pronounced 'pynus'. However, in Hungary, apparently it is pronounced (you guessed it).

The Professor had the entire escorting party in stitches when he announced that the largest Pinus he had ever seen was in China!!!

ROFL!

BWAHAHA. I love stories like that.

*SNORT*.......WIPE..WIPE.. Well, there goes that full mouth of coffee!!

ditto what pati said. LOL *looking for a towel to wipe off the monitor*

LOL....had something to post but the thought that came to my mind could get me in trouble.... ;)

I want to know what he was doing with an 'escort' party...

But seriously, I think the pronunciation is important-- as Latin is used for the names so that everyone everywhere knows what plant is under discussion, it would be good if the spoken name was also standardized.

Well, I *think* we quoted Dr. Stearn accurately when he said Latin is essentially a written language and how it's spoken is of less concern than that it is pleasant-sounding and understood by all (going off memory here) - which I would agree with. No one knows how ancient Latin or Greek was actually pronounced, and so many botanical names have been "latinized" so there is no universal standard to cling to.

There are some rules we attempt to follow in the pronunciation key, but there are also inevitable inconsistencies that come from building something over time, with input from many different people - if you find particularly tortured pronunciations, please drop us a note. ;o)

We reserve the right to respectfully disagree though. Someone argued recently that Amelanchier should use the "shay" sound since it's Old French. I chose to stick by our guns and keep the more accepted "k" sound...

Pronunciation isn't desperately important with bot names, making it an understandable pronunciation is. English pronunciation isn't standardised either but I can still understand people who pronounce the same words in a different manner once I get my ear tuned in.

Back to the original post, Cinemike, I once saw a programme in which Stephan Buczacki, related a very similar story.

That could be the one, but I thought it was Geoffrey Smith...

Terry, you did quote him accurately, I just disagree with his comment. There is definitely a correct Latin pronunciation, and it seems odd that he would disregard this.

I do agree that some pronunciations that have become popularized might well be retained, such as the classic example of Forsythia-- it is awkward to change the pronunciation now to match the surname Forsyth.

I was talking about this (correct pronunciation of Latin) with some friends yesterday evening.

We figured that ecclesiastical Latin had been continuously spoken until the 1960s so that would have established the rules of pronunciation...

But is botanical Latin the same as ecclesiastical Latin? Answers on four sides of A4, maximum time allowed: 1 hour. Good luck! :o)

ROFLMBO!!!!!!!

Botanical and other scientific names aren't Latin, they are Latinised. Yes, some names are taken from Classical and Mediaeval Latin but by no means all. We can find Ancient Greek (quite a lot of Greek as it happens, perhaps as much as Latin), names of people, from myths and legends of several cultures, vernacular names in other languages and indeed simply derived from other languages as a descriptive among others. The one thing that binds them together is the suffix, which is Latin.

As scientific names aren't a language, how can anyone set a standard pronunciation of a mishmash of languages ending in a language that hasn't been spoken for rather a lot of centuries?

Cinemike, perhaps Geoffrey S had a similar experience to Stephan B?

Not quite an hour nor 4 sides of A4! :)

The voting booth that starts a week from tomorrow should be ....interesting, to say the least. (I promise it's purely coincidental - the question was set a few months ago, lolol. ;o)

cinemike brings up an interesting point- Church Latin is pronounced a bit differently than the way it is spoken when studying the classic language.

I agree, Latin is a 'dead' language, but there still remain guides to pronunciation-- not to say that an ancient Roman would be able to understand it!

Baa, also correct about the names being 'Latinised'. I have seen that reach its heights in Church registers where Latin endings were added to English names by German-speaking priests...

Latina bona tibi est.

John

Grammar always got me but it was my favourite subject at school.

I disagree thoroughly but accept you're entitled to your opinion. To me it's like expecting all people who speak english as a native tongue to all speak like Noel Coward *G*

I took one year of Latin, and really liked it. Unfortunately, the school let the Latin teacher go and replaced him with a French teacher. I've taken French I twice and can say, in French, that I don't speak French.

My Latin teacher used Latin wrapped in his English. He wasn't stuffy - just goofy. We were expected to treat it as a real language. He said in some cases the best bet was to use the pronunciation that seemed most logical - as in, ahem, "pynus."

I think the fact that the English and Americans don't pronounce simple English words in the same manner, and this is accounting for accent, should show that pronunciation is indeed a thing of fancy.

True, Kathleen. I read somewhere that an American accent would be more true to readings of Shakespeare's works than the English one might expect.