Unhappy with system of fixing errors

I am not happy with the system for reporting fixing and fixing errors, because I do not get any replies or the errors are not fixed.


I have a number of mistakes in the plants, credited to me, and this is very disappointing that over the past two years to have worked so hard to add entries and now have them incorrect and unorganized.

Therefore, I am not adding the any new photos.

Bug_girl, I replied to the one recent report you sent to us, and I know of no others in the queue.

In fact, I distinctly recall that report, and explaining in my reply to you that you were looking at the list of plants you've added, not your own images. (You were upset that one entry in particular showed someone else's image next to the plant's entry in your list.) As I explained, someone else had posted an image to the entry before you did, and the image that is posted first (or that we move to the top with our editorial discretion) is what displays with that entry. If you didn't receive my reply, then I can only guess it might have gone out during the time (last Sunday/Monday) we were experiencing some email difficulties.

To summarize, the PDB is a community-driven database, and entries that one person creates can have images, details and comments added by someone else - it works both ways, and I'm sure there are plants that you've added an image to an entry someone else created. However, if you want a repository of only your own images and information, you may want to consider the journal feature - that's one of its many uses.

Terry, don't be discouraged. Some people only feel good when they are complaining or putting other people down. You and the other PDB editors do an excellent job, considering the workload that is involved.

Dave

You are misunderstanding, when incorrect plants are credited to my name as photos I have taken, it is embarrassing, and since I can't delete my photos maybe the user name could be changed?

When I report an error, I do not get any reply and nothing is changed. I go back to page days later to see if it is changed and nothing is changed, so I have to stress out about the mistakes still being there which I could easily change myself and it would only take a minute and then move on.


I am complaining about the system and not about a particular person ie Terry or anyone else. Maybe it is problem with bug or some other non personal software mistake?

I am not the sort of person who attacks other people, on the internet, yet when I try fix my photos, which I gave freely I am personally attacked and insulted here at Daves garden.
I would therefore be very happy to have all photos removed, or at least change the user name.

I am not upset about another person adding a plant to an entry I created. I am uspet about another person's photo appearing on my page and credited to me when
1. I did not take that photo
2. the plant is incorrect

Now, it looks like, I myself, post incorrect photos that do not match the plant.

These errors just appear out of no where, without me even changing a thing. Therefore I am speaking of some kind of software bug, and not something I person would do.

As for insulting people what about the April Fools thing insulting Spike, saying he does not like gardening? I would perfer a site, that is about plants and not about infighting and insulting people.

Bug_Girl, you are the first to report this kind of error, in all the years that we've been doing it. Can you please give me a hyperlink directly to the page that contains this error? Tell me which picture is incorrectly attributed to you, so I can look closer into this matter.

As for insulting people what about the April Fools thing insulting Spike, saying he does not like gardening? I would perfer a site, that is about plants and not about infighting and insulting people.

If you would prefer some place else, then WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? I recall that you come out of the woodwork every year or so and stir this exact same kind of stuff up, again and again. I don't understand it, and I won't be participating in it anymore after I submit this post.

dave

Bug_girl, this is the entry you wrote to us about:
http://plantsdatabase.com/go/56625/index.html

And this is what you wrote, verbatim:

"From: Bug_Girl
Subject: I have an error to report
Date: Sun, Apr 18, 2004 12:49:03 PM

On [HYPERLINK@plantsdatabase.com] I found an error. The error that I found is:

from my member page, I can see a pink flower, that is not my photo, it turns out a pink flower taken by Joy and not myself has replaced my own photo, on my member page, and that photo may or may not be correct for my plant, the pink flower appears to be a daisy hybrid of some kind, when I view my member page, I don't want to see another person's photo, it ruins the whole thing."

Joy's image (which was posted before yours, so it never "replaced" yours, but has been in its present location for going on three years now) may well be a cultivar or hybrid, ditto for yours.

Our position has been (and remains) that unless the member provides us with the cultivar name, or we get a firm ID on it, the image remains with the species entry. What I gathered from your message (and attempted to address in my reply) was that you didn't want to see another person's images displayed in the list of entries you had created, because (in your words) "it ruins the whole thing."

Had you clicked on Joy's image, used the error report and asked us to investigate this image as it looked out of place, that's what I would have done. As it was, I focused (right or wrong) on your misperception of what "your" page represents, and tried to correct your understanding.

There are no other error reports in the PDB queue from you. I'm trying to not come across as defensive, but to put things in context for you, and anyone else reading this thread: Baa, PoppySue and I have handled over 6,500 error reports since we launched the "report an error link" on October 12, 2002. I'm not looking for sympathy or kudos, just simply trying to make you aware of the volume of traffic we handle in our efforts to make the PDB run smoothly and be as error-free as possible.

If anyone knows of another database out there that allows all users free access to add plants, images and comments and has an error report feature that is more efficient than ours, I have two thoughts:

1) I heartily salute them; and
2) I'd love to know how they do it

In reading through your response, it sounded vaguely familiar. Going back to last April, here's another thread with basically the same issues: http://davesgarden.com/t/380347/bug_girl

The bottom line is that we give users all the access we reasonably can to the PDB. Giving users the ability to edit/remove their own images would create massive chaos for us. Allowing users to remove other people's images....well, imagine how you'd feel if someone wanted to unilaterally remove your images from "their" entries because their presence ruined the effect of their member page.

Again, I would encourage you to use an online journal (ours or somebody else's) if you want a pristine gallery of your own images . Then you can be certain that nothing mars the perfection of it.

i bought a software called "My Garden Journal" which has places for reminders, wish lists, pictures, etc. and that way you can have your own private system but still participate at Dave's. It had to be cheap, because I bought it through the internet and you get a 30-day free trial. Perhaps you can find it on Google; I don't know the url..

Bug_Girl - If I'm following you correctly, you click on your "Contributions to the PlantsDatabase" and it takes you to a listing of the plants you've added. On that page you see a photo that is Joy's and not yours. However, the point you are missing is that the listing you are viewing at that time is (as the name of the link implies) "all plants by the user: Bug_Girl". At this moment there are 62 PLANTS you've added to the PDB. However, if it's the PICTURES you've added that you are interested in then you need to click on the link titled "Images". Right now that list is 172 items long.

I think you're confusing PLANTS added versus IMAGES added.

Brenda

I don't know if the other people on this wonderful website are aware of the power and fame of Dave's Garden . Go to google punch up a plant, bang there it is Dave's Garden, or Plant database. . Although I find that Google has the best entry finder, all the search engines take the person to dave's. It is the answer to plant questions.This fine site is for a better word, a Godsend to me and others that enjoy it and care about it Thank you Terry, and of course Dave. We are lucky it is here, don't knock it contribute to it.

Gosh, I wrote about an error, and I got an email back saying it was fixed. I wasnt even expecting a responce.

My hat is off (a million times) to ALL of you who do such a wonderful job here at DG.

My sentiments exactly - I hesitated to post here earlier... didn't wanna get in the middle of a discussion.... but have to say that a couple of mistakes I found on the PDB and the Garden Watchdog were fixed within the hour and I was notified and thanked for noticing them. You can't get better service than that!!!

Concerning reported errors that don't seem to get a response from admin: On occasion, I've clicked on the Error Report window, post the error, then without thinking, clicked on the Error Report window again, rather than the Submit button. Consequently, my report was not submitted. (OK, not very smart, I know). This usually happens when the Submit button is below my field of vision on the screen without scrolling down. If I don't hear back from admin concerning an error report, ten-to-one, they didn't receive it.

The really wonderful thing about our PDB is that anyone can post information and images. The really disconcerting thing about our PDB is.... (you guessed it)... anyone can post information and images. In order to to keep our PDB credible, we've got to rely on the expertise and dedication of those who review the images and answer error reports to keep it together.

Bug_Girl, I have to admit, I have been dismayed myself to see one of my PDB entries renamed, reworked, and my lead photo replaced by someone else's. Somehow, I considered it MY entry... a bad bit of ego, I'd say.

After all, the same species may grow all over the world, and unless I can come up with some subtle difference substantiated by documentation, all submissions should be welcome, and the needed common name changes, as well.

I have, on occasion, stood up to take exception if I honestly thought a change was in error, and in every case, I received a response and options were offered. On the other hand, I've had to hit the Error Report to correct some of my own errors!
If we can take the 'ego' out of PDB, I think it will work better for all of us

Very well said!

I haven't been much help with the help desk in the past months but I want to say that Terry and Baa go above & beyond when it comes to fixing errors. If it were up to me... I'd take the easy way out and hit the delete button! If info and images do not belong to an entry they do everything possible to find out where it does belong. They always go the extra miles involved and are very hesitant to just delete incorrect info. Some issues take hours of research and include writing to experts on the subject. There are lots of mysteries that can't be resolved right away because it's beyond our capabilities and we'll sit on it until we can come up with a reasonable answer. (LOL... I should say, until "they" can resolve it!)

Had I known the Helpdesk would be so involved when it was created,... I don't think I would have been as eager to offer my services. Terry & Baa have put hours upon hours into it. The PDB would be a mess if it wasn't for their efforts and they do an outstanding job! Not eveyrone will be satisfied all the time but I think they have a pretty good track record.

Poppysue, sometimes a williness to hit the delete button is a real virtue! LOL! I tend to try to hang on to everything because once it's gone it's gone. Consequently, I'll bet your diningroom table has enough space on it to have a cup of tea and a biscuit... here, you'd better put it on your lap!

There is the old expression "KISS", or Keep It Simple, Stupid. I've never had much luck doing that, so I'm an editor's worst nightmare, I'm afraid. I get so tangled up in the detail that I can't stand back and see the big picture.

I guess my point is this: We need folks who can blow the chaff off the wheat, and we need folks who can appreciate the chaff, too, and of course, we need folks who can tell the wheat from the chaff. That means there is room for all of us in the PDB, even if some of us are a pain in the neck, picking at details that seem unimportant to others, or if we tend to enter only what we know offhand and leave the rest blank. In some way, I think it all levels out.

The absolutely most important ingredient to the PDB is our admin staff that makes those judgement calls that may not always be popular, but keeps us credible. I've spent a lot of time chasing my tail on PDB issues, often to find that Baa or Terry or you (Poppysue) were right, and I'd just spent two hours on line, taking notes and copying links to figure that out. Bless your hearts for all the answered emails and patient explanations.

I have just been involved in fixing an error in one of my submissions to the plant database a while back caught by Weezingreens. I received several e-mails from both Terry and Baa that were of the kindest nature asking me to review the proposed changes/fixes. I related that what I had posted was indeed in error (Windows penchant for renaming files if you let the cursor hover over another file name when saving and image was the culprit) and it was fixed within a few minutes. The whole procedure for correcting entries was as amiable as could be.

Both Terry and Baa's contributions to Dave's Garden are Herculean and worthy of the highest praise for what they have helped to create here at Dave's Garden. I am at a total loss as to how anyone could find fault in the handling of a very useful system, albiet imperfect, offered for free to the general public.

I appreciate the input and support. In fairness, I do think my reply to Bug_girl went astray - her comment was logged about the time we had (unknown to us) email problems, so it is VERY likely that my reply is floating around in cyberspace somewhere.

I really wish this issue had been handled differently - and more discreetly - but perhaps the apparent lack of response or action from us was the proverbial final straw, and I am truly sorry if that's what happened.

To try to end this thread on a constructive and positive note, I hope that it's been - if nothing else - educational in explaining what our member pages actually represent, and a reminder that the PDB is the work of MANY individuals.

The "community" aspect means there are positives and negatives involved in participating - there is less ability to segregate your individual contributions than there would be in a small group or individual project. But there are countless incredibly fascinating and beautiful plants we can now learn about - plants we might have never known if someone hadn't shared their knowledge and images. In my mind, that's a tradeoff that makes the PDB worth giving up some individual preferences on issues ;o)

We'll always be looking at ways to keep the PDB as flexible, user-friendly and "self-serve" as possible. But quite honestly, the more people who participate in it, the more we need controls and structure to minimize chaos and "virtual vandalism". Everyone's suggestions, error reports, and willingness to "give and take" are what makes it possible for the editors to do our best with the PDB.