ROOTING PASSIFLORA'S 2.0

Welcome to anyone whom wishes to follow along. Today is day 1 in a new experiment that was originally created by Tropicman and Clare. We've had people asking question's so we're starting a new thread on rooting the hard to root Passiflora.
1st I mix a solution of Maxicrop(1 cap full), Superthrive(1-3 drops) and 1 table spoon of regular hydrogen peroxide per gallon. I then soak my Oasis brand foam cubes prior to sticking cuts into them. I then soak the cuts in that same solution for 15 minutes or so before the final cut, I think the peroxide helps clean out any pathogen's on the cuts and in the cubes aswell as providing more oxygen. Then I cut a 45 degree angle on the bottom end of my cut with a new/clean razor blade. Then I'll either use the razor to slightly "nick" the outter layer of the cut or scrape off the outter layer in a thin stripe on the bottom end of the cut. Only scrape or nick at or below the level of the cut that will be dipped in gell and stuck in the cubes. I use rooting gel rather than powder, that's just a personal prefference too, and dip about 1 inch of the cut into the gel and promptly insert it into the cube. Then put the cubes in your trays or whatever you plan on using, set on a heat mat and cover with a humidity dome. I spray the clones with a spray bottle filled with the same solution I soak the cubes in. I try to mist atleast twice daily and monitor the cubes/vermiculite to make sure the heat mat hasn't dried them out too much. Water that as needed too.

Below are 2 photo's. 1 is an example of how high the humidity is inside the dome, condensation making viewing almost impossible. The heat mat adds to the condensation. I need to find my thermometer to check inside temps, if it's too warm they will begin to rot rather than root imo....Ideal temp is roughly 72 degrees from what I've read. Keeping temps regulated constantly is almost impossible for me so I do the best I can.

This message was edited Apr 9, 2004 3:35 PM

Thank you for starting a new thread. I quit going to other one, as it took so long to come up to the last post.

This picture shows the cuts stuck into the cubes, the different colors and behavior of the different species. Hopefully I won't have a problem providing the individual needs of each species inside 1 tray. I have a thin layer of vermiculite across the bottom of the trays under the cubes for 3 reasons. It helps distribute the temps from the heat mat more evenly, it helps keeping the temps slightly lower by providing space between the mat and the cuts and it also helps by providing a moist place for the roots to "reach" for once they emerge from the cubes. I believe that providing moist vermiculite tends to make the roots try harder to reach for water, I try to keep the cubes a tad dryer than the vermiculite after roots have developed. I'm thinking/hoping that this also makes the cuts send out more roots to anchor itself too. I've tried using perlite in the past but since its so white, algae grows on the surface. I know most people don't use cubes for rooting cuts either, I believe it gives me something to "handle" the rooted cuts with instead of a unsupported stem and roots. It's just a personal prefference, many people use rockwool, coco fiber, vermiculite/perlite mixes and on and on.
I hope I don't come across as a "know it all" by starting this thread and trying to "teach" people how to clone. I'm merely showing everyone what is currently working best for me. There are sooo many different methods of rooting cuts and growing plants as there are plants to propagate. I hope somebody will come along this post and see something I'm doing wrong in their opinion so I could learn more or vise versa. I've tried other ways of rooting w/ no success when others have 100% success w/ the same method. ie. An aero cloner. I made 1 several years ago and I couldn't make it work. Hydro shop's sell areocloner's that people get roots in less than 1 week, not me so far so I went back to what I know best. If I don't get the results I want with this try, I may get it out and try again. That maybe the ultimate solution for rooting Passiflora's. Soo many ideas and soo little time and space to try them all.
Goodluck!
OH Clare, please share what you have going on if you can.

Your welcome Hibiscus. Do you think I'm doing a decent job of describing all of this and is this worthy of it's own topic? You can't hurt my feelings so please tell me like it is;). I need to know, Thanks JD

You are doing a great job of describing everything, especially for beginner's like me and others. Where can I get some Maxicrop? Maybe I can do this along with you all. Just starting off with my collection but have about three that I can take cuttings of to try it. Antoinette

Wish I had known this stuff a couple of years ago when I had over a dozen different passiflora with no place to overwinter them. Cuttings that root, overwinter so much easier. I'll have to try to remember all of this later this summer. Thanks Jeff. Good information.

Yes, Jeff, you are doing an excellent job.

I don't have all those "fancy" things, so I just start mine in 3" of vermiculite, in clear jar, wet vermiculite, stick cutting(all the lower leaves and tendrils removed) in rooting powder, put in vermiculite, plastic ziplock bag over top . Place under dbl. florescent lights.

Spring and August/September best times to root.

Do you guys think I can root any of mine now...they are a little worn out from being in the GH all winter and won't be coming out of there for probably another month...

Think I should wait till they come out or try it now?

and like Gourd said...where do I get maxi crop?

Karyn, think they should be shooting new growth to take the cuttings from. Are yours' doing that yet? Mine are growing like crazy right now.

Hi Guys! Jeff, your explanation and presentation is wonderful. I've got roots on my Mollissima. I started them a few weeks ago in a jar of water, which is sitting in a tub of water. I started out having a large plastic sandwich bag over the tops, but I eventually removed that after about two weeks. Here is what they looked like a few days ago:

One of the above rooted Passifloras has a totally brown stem so it probably won't survive, but the other two look great.

Here are the cubes that Jeff sent me. I am rooting P. Lady Margaret, P. Amethystina, and P. Alata Ruby Glow. After I took this picture, I put them in a large zippered plastic bag like the kind that comforters and bedspreads come in. It is completely fogged up with a lot of condensation, but I see green through the plastic so I think they are doing okay. I have them on the back patio where it is warm but not too warm and lots of shade and no bottom heat.

Thanks everyone.
Maxicrop is liquid norwegian(sp) kelp, thats the only place they harvest it. Any garden center worth a darn should have it. I've been asked this a lot lately and have been told that some Lowe's stores have it, some1 found it at Walmart, maybe Home depot. I use it for everything but many people don't use it at all. It hardly has any npk in it, I think its 01-0-1.0. It just seems to do things in the garden that nothing else does. Oasis cubes aren't a must either, like I said earlier, many people use perlite or vermiculite or both. I just recently added hydrogen peroxide to my mix over the last 2 months. I believe the biggest part of it all is preperation and the way you make your cuts.
Crestedchik: If you have any newer, green shoots, I'd try it and even a couple if you don't. The more woody like the stems are, the harder it is imo. It can be done though.
This will be great having more people trying this at the same time w/ slightly varying techniques, it makes it more fun and educational. Now if someone would teach me all about grafting and tissue culturing, I'd be in heaven!LOL
Goodnight all

Here's a suggestion on getting to the bottom of the thread in a hurry. Just Hit the control & the end keys on your pc & you will go to the end of the thread in a hurry. Then you can scroll up apiece to see where you left off last time. Remember, these are nothing more than excel spreadsheets & I discovered this early on when reading the posts. If you want to go to the beginning of the thread, hit control & home & you'll be back up at the top. Hope this helps. Almost forgot. Is there a thread on germinating Passiflora seeds? Let me know & thanks.

This message was edited Apr 10, 2004 11:04 AM

Thankyou for the wonderful info on propagating Passies! this doesn't sound too difficult, Jeff...........Elaine

That's awesome Clare, mine always got mushy when I tried doing it that way. I forgot to tell you that I've been removing the dome like things to let in fresh air and to mist FYI. I don't know that it matters, I just HAVE to peek.LOL I hope this works out and I don't look like a a$$ for doing all this for nothing! As soon as my maypops show up, I'm going to try your water/jar method. I may add a small air pump just b'cuzz I have many of them. Maybe another side by side there too.
EVERYONE This isn't difficult at all, if I make it sound that way, I'm not doing a good job of showing you all. You don't have to use cubes or maxicrop, I know many people that get other cuts to root in 1/2 the time but none are Passion flowers. The main reason for using trays and domes is convenience for me. Since I'm gardening from a wheelchair, my hands get darn busy so I need something I can carry on my lap...TRAYS;) Plus my wife and I do atleast 10 trays of seedlings and the inserts for the trays can have up to 72 growing sites. I usually will put 2-3 seeds per site, my wife on the other hand...Well her trays look like she used an entire seed pack per site and that's no joke. They're so full, I have to water them 2-3 times a day. But w/ the trays, I can top water and then lift out a section and water from underneath too. That spreads heatmat temps and carries the heat up into the sites plus I can use the extra water as a saucer of sorts to add more water to her lil forest cubes. This is a lot more work but it;s much easier on my wallet so that's just the way it is nowaday's. OOPs I'm off topic again. Good day all! JD

HOLYCRAP! Man alive, I just found my thermometer I use to measure temps inside my clonedome and cubes. It was about 85F in there! That's cooking not cloning! I've always used a spacer on top of a heat mat just for this reason and I did this time too. Obviously my spacer needs to be much thicker. I'm shooting for 75F I believe. I measured the temp. on top of the mat and under my spacer(basically right on top of mat) and it hit almost 100F. Now I'm going to have to check the temps on seedlings too since I have 4 heat mats running.
That alone had to of been a big reason my percentages were so low last go. I'll keep you all posted;)

I have five Vitifolia cuttings that I put into rockwool two weeks ago and they are sitting in a plastic container (container and all are in a ziplock bag, that I open intermittently) . So far, one cutting turned to mush. The others look alright, no roots yet.

Will take cuttings of Careulea and Incense tonight and use the Kelp powder I have and some Superthrive, and H-peroxide. I am afraid to use the heatmats here, the weather is so warm already. So, I will put them under lights and then the entire container in Ziplock Bags. I also have some root-tone, should I use that before putting them into the soiless mix (If I locate it)?

I could not find vermiculite today, will try this week sometime to get a large bag.

Gourd. Are you asking if you should use the rooting powder 1st? If so, yes! Just before placing them in the medium you plan on rooting them in, dip them in your rooting hormone just before sticking them in.
Let me know how it goes for you.
Goodluck;)
JD

I have tried using my heatmat on brug seeds and everytime, they acted like they were "steamed", cooked, in other words, so I won't use it anymore, I tried putting them up on top of a wire cage, never had any luck either way, so........I don't use heat.

Thanks Buttoneer, Ctrl + end does work to go to the bottom of those long posts.

Hi Everybody! I don't use heat mats either, but I would if I was doing this inside the house. I have my bunch outside, where I think it is warm enough. Thanks Jeff for the info. I will air mine out every once in a while. I opened the bag today for a picture, and I misted with water. So far, they all look pretty good. I noticed on some of them that the Oasis cube was not snug up against the cutting so I smushed them some more. I hope that works.

Here's a recent picture before I opened the bag:

Here they are with the bag opened:

Lookin pretty darn good Clare. Same as mine except w/ a dome I can keep the leaves from touching the dome. Man I can't wait to see how well we do this time. We'll get it down to an art soon I hope!

All of them look GREAT!

I'm sure everybody will be starting and growing lots of these plants.

OK,I'll get some super thrive and ask if they have maxie crop,maybe the hydro store has it,I've looked at normal places and they look at me crosseyed when I ask....

I do have new growth on most of mine so I do have places to cut,I have one that is easy to root...but I've had the silly thing for years and it STILL hasn't bloomed.I even planted parts of it outside ,had it wintered over one year...but still no blooms.I cut it back...I fertilize,I don't fertilize,the thing grows like crazy but not a bud to be seen.I have it stuffed in a corner of the GH,completly shaded by the brugs ...and its still growing........this year I think I'm gunna put the whole thing in the ground...if it makes it...it makes it...if it doesent ...oh well......I'm not wasting any more room in the GH if its not going to bloom.....

Clare and Jeff,getting them to root is wonderful,both of your doing great jobs.
Buttoneer,I'm starting a thread on starting passiflora seeds.
Clare,I was taking some pics to put in my new seed passi thread and look what I discovered,the big ole cactus orchid is at it again.

Thanks, everyone!

CC, which Passiflora is it, do you know? What a drag that it won't bloom for you. Maybe it will this year.

Don, that is fabulous. The cuttings you sent me last year are finally starting to put on some growth. They rooted really slowly, but I had them outside all winter so I think that slowed them down. I can hardly wait for mine to bloom. I hope I don't have to wait too long. Your Epi is a terrific bloomer! Get that camera ready:-)

No clue what it is,it was sent from a trader in California years ago,they were cuttings ,they rooted great but never bloomed and she never did say what kind or color...I was just thrilled I finally had a pasiflora

I'm semi-spoiled now...I have a few varieties and find my favorites are the ones that bloom...LOL

I am starting to feel a bit lucky to even have a passiflora. I have only been gardening and starting my own plants for about three years. One of my first year ventures was passiflora from seed. Out of six pots I had given up and finally one plant sprouted after a couple of months. It hasn't done much untill now but I transpanted to a larger pot this year and found a spot to the side of an east facing bay window and it is growing fairly vigorously, but only on one leader. How can I get it to bush out?? I am hoping that with a little luck I could see a bloom here in year 3. I had three cuttings just dipped in powder and stuck in perlite with no luck for about three weeks now. I have recut the one survivor and am trying again along with a fresh cutting of young growth in perlite inside a ziplock on a heating pad. Wish me luck.

Wideswath. Never give up on passion flower seeds, I've seen some take almost a full year to germinate. Those seed coats are like iron, I tried to thin the seedcoat 1 time to try to speed up germination. I even used emory cloth and couldn't hardly scuff them. I'd soak them even longer than 24 hrs. I have some Brugmansia seeds that are slow coming up and I've had them saoking since friday. I must plant them today.
Is your passionflower stretchy and lanky? You will probably need to cut it way back. The cool part is when you cut 1 stem, it turns into 2 later and so on. Thats how you can thicken it up.

Hi WideSwath, I agree with Jeff on all counts. Passifloras seeds can take up to a year to come up. I usually soak mine in orange juice or hot, hot water for 24-48 hours before sowing. The water should start out hand hot and be changed every 24 hours. If this is year 3 for your seedling, you should see flowering provided it has enough light. For a bushier vine, pinch the tip of the leader.

I forgot 1 very important detail and probably a reason our cloning experiments are going slower than I remember.
Cuttings need 16-20 hours of light a day for optimum results! I just found a timer plugged into 1 of my old lights and it dawned on me, DUH! I know that's not practicle for most of us, especially me since I'm still sleeping next to 1/2 my trays.LOL When we're only using roughly 12 hours on and 12 hours off, we're triggering/confusing the plants. 12/12 is what makes most annuals flower and 18/6of is what I always used for vegatative growth. Darnit...Well it can't be all bad since were getting some to root.
Clare you should see my belloti cut! It has a 8inch stalk with 1 square piece of the original leaf on top then there is 4 inches of new vine and itty bitty leaves growing from a stalk. Its the funniest looking Passiflora I've ever seen. I can't wait to get these guys outdoors, dragging them out every morning and back in at night is killing us. We had another big frost last night. Ughh

Great, Jeff! I'd love to see a pic when you get a chance! Thanks for the info about the light. It gets light here from 6:00 A.M. to about 8:00 A.M., but the days are getting longer. I know exactly what you mean about the dragging in and out. I'm through with doing that so my cuts are going to have to stay outside;-)

Check out these little babies. I hope some leaves grow out from the original stem.

You can see where the old stem stops and all new growth starts. This is 1 cut I just knew wasn't going to make it due to lack of foliage. It came with that square shaped original leaf and its still there after all this time. Odd don't ya think?

Now I do have big hands but not nearly as large as these baby leaves make it look.LOL
Clare and TROPICman.
Today I was talking w/ an old friend and he told me about these newer things called "Rapid Rooter's" that he now uses exclusively for cuttings. They say using these things makes cloning much easier and MUCH more reliable, even more so than w/ the aero-cloner's. I'm going to pick some up this week. I hear it's fool proof, I'll get some and we'll soon see.
http://www.genhydro.com/rapidroot.html

Very nice, Jeff. Lookin' good! Which is the one the right? The P. Morifolia? They both look great. You should be very proud that you got these to root and grow. The square shaped leaf was my doing. I trimmed the big leaf down some. I have read that you should remove all lower leaves of a cutting and only leave small ones at the top. If there are no small ones at the top, you can leave a big one or two at the top, but you should cut or tear them to reduce their size. I've also read that tearing is better than cutting. That way, less energy is required to maintain the leaves, and more energy can be directed toward developing roots. You are right that I usually lose all original leaves eventually. I bet your stem will grow new leaves shortly. I look forward to seeing these "Rapid Rooters," and we'll check out that link you provided when I get a chance.

Hey Tropicman and Clare.
I've had small roots just above the cubes on the stems for 2 days now. I took the stem scarification a step or so further and I didn't include and nodes to be on the rooting end, just stems. Many of the cuts have very swollen stems right above the cubes, some are so swollen that the stem has literally split vertically. They're also about twice the initial diameter of the stems. The last time we did this expirament, I didn't count the days correctly imo until we had roots. The roots have to be atleast 1 inch long before I see them emerge from the bottoms or sides of the cubes. So IMO, when we had visible roots out of the cubes at 11 days like last time, we actually had roots in probably 1/2 that time. The roots were just hidden inside the cubes. Here are the differences I did this go:
1. I used cuts w/ no nodes at the bottom
2. I scared the stems on some vertically by scraping the outter layer and some i just put several nicks in the stems where I dipped in the gel.
3. I made the ends that go into the cubes about twice as long as usual.
So far everything looks great. I think today is exactly 1 week since cloning them and I see several have roots above the cubes but nothing coming out from below. Due to the weather and slow mailman last time, I had much more lost/dropped leaves. I just had 1 tiny leaf drop today. I can't wait to see what the next week will bring.
CLARE All the Brugs you sent me look incredible! I have several other cuts and seedlings and none of them are as tight or bushy as yours. The difference is amazing, night and day different. I wished i knew why! LOL

I need some info on where to plant them Clare. Do they like full sun or partial? Do you prune them when they 1st go out? Is there anything else I should know or try before I stick them in the ground? I want to prune some on a fence so they'll grow tree like and I'll let some go natural. I need to get some info on my new Datura hybrids aswell. I wonder if they bloom at night like Darura Inoxia? I think spring has finally sprung in these parts! Now if the spring rains would come!
Thanks guys;P
JD

Hi Jeff! That's great news on your cuts. I'll check mine today too when I get a chance. I do know that the Mollissima cuttings, which I've been rooting in water, are still going strong, and the roots are getting longer. I'll be potting them up soon.

I'm glad to hear that the Brugmansias that I sent you are doing well. I have mine in full sun, and they do fine, but I think they prefer some afternoon shade if you can manage it. Brugs will even grow in full shade or filtered sun so don't be afraid of planting them anywhere.

I would not prune them for awhile; I would just plant them in the ground and watch how fast they grow! Then you can start fertilizing. They are heavy feeders so fertilize them as often as you can. I would let them grow naturally for the first summer, and then you can prune them when you dig them up to bring them inside for the winter. Many people, including myself, like the tree look so they prune off all lower branches and growth. Sometimes you have to wait until the second year to do this when you grow a Brugmansia from a cutting. Then, if you wait, you will have nice healthy branches to start new plants from.

All Brugmansias and Daturas bloom at night. Some of mine continue to bloom during the day as well. Full, hot sun often makes the flowers go limp during the day, but they perk right back up again at night. They are fragrant only at night, but the fragrance is wonderful.

Here is a picture of my Charles Grimaldi:

Here are my cuttings today. I haven't checked to see if they have grown any roots yet because, even if they have, I probably wouldn't be able to see them, but the cuttings themselves look pretty good. I started these cuttings April 9 so it has only been six days.

Jeff,great news!!
Wonder why they start roots above the cube,less resitance for the roots to form.
Clare,yours looking nice and green,question here did you leave more leaves on your cutting than normal?
Still hardening off plants,even tho I covered all my plants the freeze burnt the leaves on everything,but the plants survived,and have already starting forming new leaves,these plants are a lot tougher than you think.