Well this is a potential nightmare. These are pictures of Charles grimaldi branches that have something wrong with them but I'm not positive it's SB. Would you all please take a look and let me know what you think?
It isn't present on all branches and there is healthy growth right above these spots.
Like Clare, I'm not seeing black spots at the nodes. It has been a miserable year for most all of my brugs, this 1 has dropped its leaves and grown them back more than once.
Here is 1 more angle. I'll look at it closer when I can get a better look in the day light.
I haven't looked my other brugs over yet. The majority that are still in the ground look completely normal with enormous leaves. It seems the only bad looking brugs are the potted brugs.
Please let me know what you all think. I see some similarities and many differences, go figure.
Thanks friends, JD
Thank you so much, Monika. I feel so much better now.
Thank you, Shirley, for your concern.
I am grateful that it is not SB. So far, SB has attacked all my B. suaveolens and yellow multihybrids. I am comforted that it has not attacked my B. versicolors. Perhaps they are more resistant.
JD, are those from the Charles Grimaldi cuttings that I sent you? My Charles Grimaldi had SB and had to be destroyed. I had forgotten that I sent you cuttings. I probably sent them to you before mine came down with SB, but you had better destroy your plant just in case. You don't want to risk infecting your whole collection.
Edited to add: JD, I don't see any black circles around the nodes of your cuttings, which is what I had.
This message was edited Oct 9, 2005 7:15 PM
Clare, the versicolors dont get it. I never had a versicolor come down with SB or have heard of it.
JD, it looks like a mold on the branches of CG but I saw also s black spot on one of the branches. Better pictures would be helpful.
I hope I don't ever see this. Brugs are so beautiful. Mine seem stunted at 2 ft tall.
I looked up Ecuador Pink as I have pink, but not that pink. That is beautiful. Glad you don't have it.
JD, I've never seen SB but yours looks like some kind of mold or mildew.
Question: Can a wound to a brug turn into SB??
Clare. Yes that is the same plant and has been my favorite ever since. Lately we've had many many different types of mold/fungus like stuff on all kinds of plants due to this crazy wet weather.
I don't see any of the black rings like mentioned either.
I'll take many more and better pictures today.
Thanks guys;)
JD
Send rain....
Bless you, Monika. That is great news. I'm sticking with versicolors from now on. Thanks again for your help.
Thanks, Sandy.
Sherry, I should let Monika answer your question, but I think SB can enter an open wound after a limb has been cut. I just sprayed all my limbs with pruning seal after I cut my EP branches.
JD, you may want to consider spraying with a fungicide if you are gettng mold/fungus on plants due to the weather. Safer makes a fungicide/miticide/insecticide called "All in One," which seems to work well. I think Neem Oil works well too as a fungicide if I'm not mistaken. I hope you don't have SB like my CG did.
Thanks, Clare!! I'm thinking I should dress the wounds when I take my cuttings, makes sense. I appreciate your reply!
Fusarium alone spreads by seeds, soil, water splash, water run off, wind, contact with infected garden tools, pots and hands. Lives for years in discarded plant material.
Vee8ch, that's a major bummer. I think all my tomato plants had some form of it by the end of the summer. I guess I can't reuse that soil then in those big half barrels. This kind of things makes one want to throw up ones hands and say, "Forget it! It's not worth the work," but, in fact, it is worth the work:-)
I've had fusarium before. Received it in trades and sent it in trades. One day our TN ag dept came to inspect our nursery. I pointed the brug problem out to him and he said "That's sure signs of Fusarium" .... but he never explained to me just how nasty it can get or how to get rid of it. It was maybe another 6 months before a friend explained to me just how deadly this stuff is to brugs. By that time several of my brugs had died .... lol! When you grow brugs there is always something to deal with. Never a dull moment that is for sure. Yes it is worth the work isn't it?
I have always tried to reuse soil. I thought I was being frugal. I was,...except, I was saving the soil AND the things living in it, including the bad things...
A few years ago, after a major knat infestation(fungus knats that live as larvae in the soil), I decided I'd either have to never reuse soil, or find a way to make the soil reusable.
I read about pasteuring(160-168 degrees) the soil. I've tried it, and have had great success. I put moist soil I want to reuse in those turkey baking bags. I stick a meat thermometer in it, and watch the temperature. If you want it truly sterile the temp. should be over 180. I've even heated questionable stuff to 350.
I would think that this would not only kill mold and fungus, but kill that virus, also ...
-T
Clare, with all the red spider and now the white fly the poor things still are try to bloom and they do not have have any big leaves on them. I am about to put them out of there miserie before they get the big things.
Clare I can all ways look at yours.
Joan
Taylor, that's a good idea, but my DH would probably freak if I brought potting soil into the house. I just throw mine away with the plant in the garbage. You're right that it does sterilize the soil, but it kills the good as well as the bad. Still, it is a good way to save money. I spent a small fortune on potting soil this past summer.
Thanks, Joan. I've got the red spider mites and the whiteflies too, and mine have no leaves now that the Santa Ana winds keep coming up. At least all the ones with SB are gone now.
LO Clare. That is what I was thinking. Using Tom's oven to cook dirt may be the last straw in our marriage. LOL
If you only pasteurize it(160-168), then you do not kill all the good things in the soil. But, It is still enough to kill mold and fungus, though.
Sterilize is much hotter than pasteurize, and is temps around 180-200, for an hour or two, or 250+ for an hour. (Make sure the soil is moist, so it doesn't catch on fire, lol...)
I bag my dirt outside and then bring it in. (so no mess inside). I mix my own mixes, so really hate throwing my (expensive) soil away. My hubby used to really complain about the "smell" of baking dirt, and it really isn't a pleasant smell, but then I found out about the baking bags.
They really contain the smell and now my hubby doesn't even know when I'm baking dirt. One time he even opened the oven, and asked what was for dinner? I said "dirt", and (after he got over his disappointement there wasn't a baking chicken in there), we had a good laugh.
Anyway, what I was trying to say was that I typically pasteurize my soil. In THIS case, I will sterilize the soil from my sick suavolens, so it is hot enough to kill the virus. I will just have to add a high mix of compost back in to make it full of nutrients, again...
I read someplace that once you have used commercial soil, it loses its effectiveness to grow good plants the next year by 25%. Has anyone heard of this? I don't reuse my soil except to add to flower beds.
I will do lotz of stuff for these brugs, but cooking soil is NOT in my job description, and I do not intend to do it, come hell or high water, but, as a last resort, I would do it, but I would hate it...
Boy my DH think I lost my mind already with plants. He came in last
week at midnight from work and told me he looked and thought some of the ceiling fell in. I had a plastic storage container lid in the living room floor (around 2 ft by 3 ft) and it had dirt and stuff on it because I was sitting in the floor potting a few things. I thought it was funny.
We also went to the mall Sat. I needed to go to sears, but I knew there was a home and garden show there. When we pulled in the parking lot The signs were everywhere. He exclaimed you knew it didn't you. Then added you might as well drive stakes in my eyes. It didn't sink in what he said till 3 o'clock in the morning when I climbered into bed. I thought about asking him to come to Maas with me and what he said came back to me. I started laughing and could not quit for 30 min.
I will have to bake dirt just to see what that reaction is. Aren't I mean??? I will put some cinamon and vanilla on the stove so when he comes home he will think I am baking. .....Need I say more?
Mooowaahaha
ROTF, that is hysterical about 'some of the ceiling fan fell in' , 99, and sounds like something my hubby would say!!
I have to admit that I have baked the mix that I start seeds in. I use the scanmask that Shirley suggested last year and (knock on wood, I'm not going to say it). In the gh, i have 6 or 8 galon jugs that I fill with water and let it set until I need it. I Put a tsp of the granuels in each jug.
Don't tell me we don't know how to have fun . . . . baking soil and mixing potions.
And making our Dh feel special we baked something and pulling out the rug by telling them it is dirt. But hey he messes with me and
I wont let it cool and add the worm. No special treat tonight.
Go figure I Can remember the time he would eat the worm out of tequila. Earthworms don't leave you with a hang over and they are fat free. Think of the protein. They have 9 hearts.
How could he be so ungrateful.
Sherrylike it was too funny ;o) ROTFWY
And making our Dh feel special we baked something and pulling out the rug by telling them it is dirt. But hey he messes with me and
I wont let it cool and add the worm. No special treat tonight.
Go figure I Can remember the time he would eat the worm out of tequila. Earthworms don't leave you with a hang over and they are fat free. Think of the protein. They have 9 hearts.
How could he be so ungrateful.
Sherrylike it was too funny ;o) ROTFLWY
I have another question for Monika if she doesn't mind: do you ever see SB on B. x candida or its hybrids? Thank you in advance.
LOL, Sherry. I agree! No dirt cooking here. But I sure understand. I think I spent more on dirt last year than plants. And now I am buying this special mix that costs $40 for a bale. It kills me to pony up that kind of money up as fast as I go thru dirt.
Sandy, I do not cook for my DH so if I baked dirt for my plants my DH would be so crushed. Maybe I will save doing it for when I am mad at him. LOL
Clare, I have never seen SB on B. x candida. I do have Multihybrids with a minmum on suaveolens - genes and they dont have it either.
Thank you, Monika. That is good to know. You are an invaluable source of knowledge here on this forum.
I'm going to stick to growing those two species only then besides the B. aurea hybrids that I have. So far, my Pink Beauty is looking healthy as well.
I am wondering if other species can have it without showing it. The reason that I ask this is I have a U Conn Treasure that came from the same source as the others that I destroyed, and it looks terrible all the time and grows and flowers poorly, but it has no black rings around the nodes. I suppose that it is possible that drainage is poor or the soil is awful in that particular corner of the yard. I should dig it up and toss it too just to be on the safe side. It could just be the location which isn't good.
Its probably the soil Clare.
Many brugs are resistant to SB. Its like with roses. Some are very succeptible to mildew and rust while others are not.
The diagnosis that Connie posted is evidence that we have several diseases to be concerned with and you can have these diseases all at one time. In the last 3 years American brugs have been diagnosed with several different ones. Unless we have our brugs tested there is just no way to know what we are dealing with. I lost several brugs in my first year to what I assumed was all due to fusarium. .... Suavs, candidas, and versicolors. I strongly suspect that I was dealing with more soil-borne diseases than just Fusarium.
Is stangelbrand a German term used for an unknown strain of fusarium? If yes then this is probably where the confusion comes in for some American growers. As American gardeners we are familiar with fusarium. Stanglebrand is a foreign word and sounds more scary to us brug chickens. :)
If stangelbrand a not a German term used for an unknown strain of fusarium and means something else then forgive me ahead of time for opening my mouth! ha! lol!
I lost Rosabelle to a stem rot a couple of years ago. I lost Pink Pearl to stem rot. Pink Pearl was from Monika's cross of Ecuador Pink and something else, can't remember what the other parent was right now.
I took mine to the University of Tennessee, they said it was Fusarium.
The name Stängelbrand was lend from a similar looking disease on grain and rape. Fusarium and Phoma are the originators of it. SB started to spread 1995 in Brugmansia collections through cutting and plant trades, because the disease was not known at that time.
So does this mean Stangelbrand is a combination of the two diseases?
This is very interesting and informative. Thank you, Monica, for your help with this.
Stanglebrand and Fusarium certainly seem similar in their symptoms, and even if they are not the same, they both have the same end result. It seems from Connie's findings that this is initially a fungus, which is then highly susceptible to "Bacterial Soft Rot (Erwinia sp.)" and "Phomopsis (Phomopsis sp.)." The Fusarium is a virus, I believe. From what I understand, there are many viruses present in all gardens, and many plants live with them and never show any signs of them if they are otherwise healthy. I imagine that, once a plant is attacked by a fungus and bacteria, it is then susceptible to viruses as well and will start to show symptoms of one or more. This is just conjecture on my part. I've seen some of my passifloras show viral signs. The Passiflora hybrid "Incense" was initially propagated and sold commercially, knowing full well that all vines had the "Cucumber Mosaic Virus" because the parent plant had it. Mine started showing the symptoms after a year of being in the ground. They have since come out with a new and different Passiflora 'Incense' since the CMV caused the Passiflora 'Incense' to flower poorly. Certain Abutilons are given a virus to cause variegation in the leaves. Any way you slice it, fungus and bacteria and viruses seem to be a bad thing in the garden.
I was told this several years ago because Fusarium, Phoma and Verticillium were found in the brown liasons. Because Fusarium was more present as the other fungi, they assumed that a Fusarium infection was more likely but not sure.
Today, the originator seems to be found. I had send SB plant material to the labratory and asked for a new diagnosis.
Clare, Fusarium is a fungus. This fungus family is very large.
Clare, I have huge confidence in you for getting to the root of these problems here in the US. You are amazing. I have seen how you go after knowledge and put it all together. You go girl.
PS: then tell me. LOL
Thank you Monika. Ever since the term stanglebrand surfaced I have been confused the same as many other brug growers. You and I discussed it in the past and I thought I understood it. I guess I still don't understand :(. I guess there is no hope for me? :)
It is important that USA growers understand familiar names for the diseases they encounter. Too many people believe Stanglebrand is a strange new disease that comes from Europe or is something only brugs get. They do not understand that fusarium and Verticillium have been a common disease of tomatoes in the USA for eons. It is not new to the USA.
Before Connie's post I had heard of Verticillium, Fusarium, Phoma and phytophthora diagnoses. But I never gave much thought to having several diseases at one time.
I believe a DG'er's brugs were diagnosed as having Phoma a year or 2 ago. His thread is still here somewhere. He lived in NY or IN or IL? I don't remember.
