do you think its wrong

Hummmmm, If I send someone seeds it's their seeds.

I don't care what they do with them, plant them, sell them or trade them again. I gave them to whom ever and I no longer have control......

I think the worst thing that could happen to them is that they sit in a bag or a drawer and never see the light of day again......

It would be as if someone sold me a dog or gave me a cat and then proceeded to tell me what to do with it or how I should keep it.....It's mine and I am not accountable to anyone for it.....
Just my opinion
Dee

While in general I agree with Dee, there is another school of thought on the subject (I'm not delving into choosing sides here - just offering an answer to the original question as it was asked.)

Long story short, Seed Savers Exchange (SSE) has had problems in the past with people using the network to obtain seed, which was then sold for a profit. Apparently the problem was large enough in magntitude to prompt Kent to insert the following in the yearbooks:

Prohibition Against Dividing and Reselling Yearbook Seeds

SSE's Listed Members and Non-Listed Members are strictly prohibited from dividing and reselling samples of seeds obtained from this or any future SSE yearbook (or yearbook of the Flower & Herb Exchange.) Violations of this rule will be reported to SSE's office in writing. Violators will have their annual membership fee returned and be permanently barred from the organization. SSE's Listed Members are making their seeds available to any interested gardener for planting. After being regrown once, the resulting seeds, plants or produce are yours to use however you please.

DG is not affiliated with SSE in any wya, other than to have them listed in the Garden Watchdog, and to have many members among us who are also members of SSE; their rules are not necessarily our rules. But the idea of trade-grow-sell seems to be a fair and logical solution to the problem of people trading seed and turning around and selling it. Just my $.02 worth...

We've also have tried to address many of the "sticky situations" that occur in seed/plant trading in the Trading Primer here http://rir.davesgarden.com/trading_primer/ - hope that helps!

I have a simple rule. If someone gives me something that they think will enhance my collection,I never will sell or trade it. I collect knives, guns, fossils, etc. A trade with a friend is only from my reserves, but I am usually certain that this friend wants the result as a keeper. If I found that a trade resulted in my former stuff being auctioned off, that would be the last with that person. Curmugeon Frank.

"Can't we all just get along?"

imzadi, well somebody always has to ruin things and i agree w/dispatcher1, not it's original intention. people are selfish and very desperate these days, takes the fun and sincereity out of things. i'm sorry this has happened and it's pretty obvious this person doesn't care. you know what they say, takes all kinds! Denise

Before this thread takes a turn for the worse (and/or gets deleted), I strongly advise that we stick to the original question and not take sides in any personal matters relating to it. As Dave has pointed out, there's no way for onlookers to truly know who's in the right here. But it IS a good general question, and one that should be asked and answered occasionally for the benefit of those new to trading.

This was such a painful thread - after realizing there were two sides of the story, I have decided to edit my comments and delete them. I hope the two of you can work this out.

This message was edited Feb 11, 2004 9:32 PM

again!

This message was edited Feb 11, 2004 9:33 PM

I did ask this question as a general thing. i never thought to name anyone and never intened to name anyone in this.

i am sorry if people are taking sides on this. that is not what i inteneded. i wanted opinions on how everyone felt on this. from emails i have gotten this does happen and i wanted to know what people felt on this.

i have recieved opinions on both sides of this. i am wrong i am right. who knows i was asking it in general sense to see what others thought. this just doesnt happen here .

when you trade you have the good and the bad. just like everything in life. nothing is perfect. trading is supposed to be fun but there are people unfortunatly make trades bad. then you have so many others who make it right and fun agian.

i repeat i asked this as a general question but then the person who i was talking about decided to enter into this. that was their choice.

i said my stuff above and we have both mutely decided to stay away from each other in everything. thats the end of it for us.

now as far as the question goes like Terry said it is a good one because things like this do happen. agian nothing is perfect.

i cant stop anyone from making personal judgemnets. you can email me. whatever.

But please lets not start a fight here.

Terry has nicely asked this and I hope as the person who started this thread in a genral sense that we can keep it that way. did that make sense??? hehe

please .

I just want to keep one motto in mind for myself and that is "Sowing the Seeds of Love."



This message was edited Feb 11, 2004 9:34 PM

When I send seeds in trade or for postage, I am hoping that the person who received them will be the one to enjoy them growing in their garden. Sometimes I will share something rare that I have few of thinking that the recipient is someone else who would appreciate such seeds. If the trader or sase'r has enough for themselves, and some to share, that is also fine. But I would be pained to see them for sale on eBay. The problem though, is the expectation on my part... a gift is, after all, a gift.

How about if there are only limited numbers of the seeds or cuttings being offered? Should someone who intends to sell or immediately trade them away step aside for someone desperately seeking them? I would have to think so.

The original question was, perhaps, loaded! "do you think it's WRONG". How about "having received seeds (or cuttings) in a trade or sase offer, is one free to do as one pleases with them, or is there an obligation to grow them in one's own garden?"

Wonder if results would have been different?

John (home sick, a bit feverish, and rambling...)

This is an interesting dilemma. I own and run my own seed company but would never consider selling seeds that I had traded with someone. Afterall how do you know that what you have traded for is actually what you have got? no offence but misnaming, cross pollination etc does occur. I also donate alot of seed free to people who I find are enthusiastic and want to genuinely share their seeds with me. SOme i grow just for my pleasure and some I may grow on for a year or two before maybe selecting some out I may use in business later. That is my personal take but I would have no truck with someone selling on my seed particularly, though I would like to think they were using it for their own pleasure in gardening and sharing.

nice touch psilo - and you are correct - who knows FOR SURE what you are getting in the mail, trading. We try and do our best, but it would be wise to grow it first to find out, then distribute.

That is a point I had not considered...and I have grown out seed which was not mislablled, but which I should have realized was saved from hybrid plants and would not come true. This is not a problem for me, as I like to see what I get from those anyway!

Terry, I think the way I read the question is should people be able to trade seeds and then sell them? In answer to that no but some people don't have a conscience! I don't think it's a matter of picking sides, I think it's a matter of what is RIGHT! Denise

I traded with OhioBreezy recently and got what I asked for promptly. I would hope she would not sell the seeds I sent her mostly because I was forthright in telling her that there might have been some natural hybridizing. I will likely trade with her again now that her side of the story has been told. It all depends on if we each have something the other wants.

Okay, I have a question:

If you give someone a gift/trade, do you have the right to dictate to the recipient of that gift/trade what they can and cannot do with it? Especially if you got something in return? It seems to me that once something voluntarily leaves your possession, you have lost control and ownership over it, unless you make certain agreements prior to the exchange, as in the case of the SSE.

Comments?

I really had hoped this would not take a turn for the worse.
I feel if you traded seed for seed it is not wrong to sell as it was not a gift. If it was do we have stipulations on gifts? I would hope not. Imzadi I would hope you would would not give out the name of this person through e-mail as you can not guarantee anyone these were your seeds.
We can't be sure she did not buy some after she got yours. There is no way of knowing and even if we did can we put strings on our gifts? To stop trading with this person for others is not fair. If anyone feels this is wrong then ask the person you are sending them to to sign something saying they will not sell them (which would be silly) as unless you can write extremely small on like cleome seeds you would not know they were yours.
Also I pray people don't go to auctions looking for someone who maybe selling the same seeds we may have traded as that would be like starting a witch hunt and I would pray that none of us would do that.
I was hurt at work 4 1/2 years ago and they are stopping my checks because it is something they can do (really their dr. says back to work). but I am awaiting my second back surgery. They really can do these things. They can hold it up til the hearing and even longer with appeal after appeal. I can't tell you what I will do with seeds I have not planted yet as If it comes down to them or food or prescriptions I can not promise anything. God blessed me with these seeds and I would hope no one would rather me go with out to use their seeds? I don't want to because I traded to watch them bloom and because I didn't have them.
Lets stop taking sides over something that belongs to God to start with. He has blessed us with them so lets continue to bless someone else.Lets give as freely as He does. Without strings attached.
I love everyone here and pray an abundant season of blooms and seeds.
Just my opinion

Sandy

i wasnt going to get on this thread agian but here i am.

first off let me say agian once the seeds are gone they are not mine to say what they can do with them.

it was the priniple of things. now to bring into account a similair issue look at the co op board at the

Crinum Milk and wine wine and roses??? Bulb co op???

now i am not saying this is the same As this is worse in my opinion but these things do happen. And i am really sorry these folks at the co op are going through this.

these things do happen and i wanted to know what others thought.

as far as telling people who i am talking about that person done that on her own in this thread. not starting any thing new here.

as far as trading i will keep trading and once and a while things go bad but there are people who make up for it.




i wanted to make people aware this is happening and to be careful about it all.

trades are not one hundred percent. you do as pointed out get cross pollination , sterilization and some seeds that just dont do squat. thats the chances. other things do happen. you have got to watch out for these things.

i have been here for 2 years now. in those two years i have come across maybe three bad trades. they sting you get over it.

people have their own minds. i just asked the question in general to see what everyone thought.

i have even asked not to make this a war on here. Terry and Dave have been gracious enough to let the thread stay and let everyone decide for his or herself. They could have deleted this thread but didnt.

you all have to decide for yourself and newbies be aware things like this happen.

lastly I never said not to trade with anyone. Thats you alls choice. you have to decide.

This message was edited Feb 10, 2004 9:30 PM

You have said several times that you are done, you are not coming back to this thread, etc., but you still keep coming back to beat this dead horse. Give us a break and let it die.

Alrighty, I think it's time to say "enough" and let this thread end.

To summarize what I've heard people saying:

1) Once seeds, bulbs, etc. are given, they belong to the new owner to do with as they choose.

2) There are ethical and practical reasons to not turn around and sell or pass along seeds (or bulbs, etc.) you've received in a trade without growing them yourself.

I think we'd agree there's a lot of merit to the arguments presented against re-trading or selling until you've grown them yourself - as much for the practical reasons (you don't know if they are true-to-name, viable, etc.) - as well as the ethical issues that something given in a spirit of generosity shouldn't be used for profit.

That said, I also believe most of us would agree that when we share our seeds or plants with someone, what they do with them is no longer our concern ;o)

...and hopefully we can all agree that's all we need to say.

And to ensure we draw an end to the subject, any further postings will be removed and/or the thread deleted.