do you think its wrong

okay heres the deal. i have been trading seeds with this person until recently due to the fact of what they are doing. i have traded some pretty rare seeds with this person then they go to ebay and list them for money. like this person i sent 5 seeds they now have two of them listed for like 8.00. i have also watched this person here buy seeds from stores then put them on ebay. i feel like somehow i was cheated. that my seeds were given for the fun and the joy not to be sold.

yes i know once they are theirs and i get my end they are theirs but it seems wrong to do this. this person ebay name is different from here so no one will know unless you buy from them. its just wrong to me.

i have asked on another site about this and gotten mixed feelings on this issue. what do you think.

This is an interesting situation. There was some discussion about listing DG'ers E-bay User names here somewhere. This was not the intended purpose, but it would let us know what to watch for on E-bay so that we would at least be aware of the intended use for the seeds. With the majority of Dg'ers , we wanted to know the E-bay user names so we would sorta have a feel for who we were buying from, because most are not going to trade seeds to sell on E-bay. It would have been nice if we could set up some easy way of cross referencing, but perhaps some people wouldn't list their E-bay name anyway , and we would never know this. I personally think that when I trade seeds , the receiver intends to plant them or give them to someone who is looking for that particular seed. Lou

I've always seen DG as a "not for profit" enterprise.
I had no idea that some trades were going for the pocketbook and I personally find the practice you describe "distasteful".

Interesting topic! Never even occurred to me that people I have given seeds to would sell them. First thought that struck me was OUCH :( On the other hand, if someone really depended on that money then I shouldn't care.

Really interesting though :)

DEA, ouch LOL, actually I would rather just send the person $8 and help them out rather than them having go to the trouble of selling on ebay! I have purchased from e-bay but never sold there as I really am hesitant to turn over any bank info! Some things on the "wires" just seem a bit risky to me.

On a more serious note, I guess it is really a matter of personal decrepancy. If I were trading with someone who was just taking my seed for profit on e-bay, I would discontinue trading with that individual. DG to me is more of a place for "sharing" than "profiting".



This message was edited Feb 3, 2004 2:37 PM

well i will say this person is here and in other groups i am in. its intersting that i stumbled into this.

i would have never thought this was happening if it didnt happen to me. i have emailed them repeatedly about this with no response. I know its my seeds that are on ebay.

i think its distaful too because when i traded i thought they would grow them not sell them.

i also know some of the people they bought seeds from in the stores. i wont say which ones and they are re selling them. then on top of it they said in a discussion they were for someone else. well if they were for someone else why are they on ebay???

i fell this takes the fun out of it. i refuse to trade with this person agian.

as for ebay i only do money orders. if they dont take money orders then they dont get my money. my bank info only goes to companies i know. to many freaks out there nowadyas.

Interesting thread. I just took a moment to look at the seed trading forum and Dave's helpful hints on trading. Dave describes that forum as the "cornerstone" of this site. I interpret that as meaning seed trading is just that "trading" not for selling.

I don't think I would ever trade with this person again either. To me it is a personal favor to go to the effort of collecting seeds, cleaning, packaging, mailing, etc.(not purchasing them in stores)to trade with someone. Especially if you have rare ones. That is a real slap in the face.
I only do money orders too. My neighbor does a lot of pay pal. You send in a set amount of money to Ebay and they keep it in an account for you. When you buy something it is deducted from the account. When you run out of money you much send in more or be out of an account.

I guess I have mixed feeligs about this. I wouldn't do it myself but (like was said) once we give them they are no longer ours. Whose to say how badly they may need the money.

This is outrageous. Maybe that is a strong word, but I thought all of this is for fun. I have traded with alot of traders and feel that we should not use each other for capital gain. Like some one said I would give to someone that straight out ask and if I have it I will send. I have only had one bad experience on a board, will not say the name. But all cuttings were not hard wood cuttings and they all died. When I let them know they were having horrible things going wrong on Christmas. After that I never received any response to any e-mail, But they never skipped a beat on the boards I visit. christmas eve, christmas day, and ect.
There was to be a funeral christmas day and some another one close to them dying. I hope I haven't given out too much info. This was the having to get back to me later. Did they.....No. Sorry I went off subject. But this is a type of being burned too.
Have you ask Dave about this? Or ask him if you could
e-mail someone who is trading with them. I know I want my seeds to go to people who want to enjoy the plant not to use me for their gain. Sorry this seems strong but I thought this is for fun and not to use anyone. We could all sell on ebay if it was all about money. I love all the friends I have made, even the one who did not get back to me.
I love all of you,
Sandy

This message was edited Feb 3, 2004 2:41 PM

I am pretty sure that this doesn't happen that often. Surely not often enough to get to upset over. We must be forgiving if not we are only hurting ourselves and the person doing this isn't being upset do you think?

I sure hope this person is taking the time to grow out what the are getting or at least germinate them before they sell them. I'm not saying your seeds are not good, or not what they are labelled as, BUT if repeat business depends on happy buyers, I think I'd want to make sure I was selling what I thought I was and also that the seeds are viable. Most of us won't even trade seeds without trying them or in the very least let the other person know they we have never even grown them. On another note, it isn't really criminal or whatever but it sounds like really bad manners and taking advantage of friends. Like you said above though, you can't really control what happens to them after you give them away. Your feelings can still be hurt though. :(

No i havent asked Dave about this . i just thought i might post this and see what people think. i am thinking of going to dave on this as i hate to see this happen to anyone else. maybe i wont have too and Dave will see this post. i am not trying to start problems but i feel like this is wrong.

yes my feelings are hurt. i cant control what they do after they get the seeds but i dint give the seeds for someone else to make money off of either.

i give to give and the fun of it. i plan to have a big garden this year and trade more this year due to having two acres now to play with. i want it to be fun. not something i want to lose.

i know i cant do anything about it now but i cn warn people about them so no one has to got through what i have.

My opinion is short and straight forward. I consider DGers friends. I don't think friends use friends for profit. There. Like Grandpa McCoy, I've had my say.

I've found that most of the people on Dave's are very generous with their knowledge, as well as their seeds and cuttings. There are always a few people in all walks of life that are takers instead of givers, and they are the ones that always manage to create problems for others. I guess you just chalk it up to life's experiences and be grateful for the truly great people that are here.

About e-bayers. I do some antique dealing. I used to go to lots of auctions. Everyone one had a good time & bidding among friends was lots of fun. Then the E-Bayers started getting thicker. They would bid until they got the items, no concern of the value. Some of the old dealers turned into e-bayers also, no fun to be around any more. Seems it's almost a disease to some people.
Theirs more to life than that.
I would just scratch them from my trade lists & let them do their own thing without friends they don't seem to need anyhow.
Bernie

If they want to trade the seeds on E-bay then they should at least grow them and save their own seeds from those plants for the trade. To just use the five seeds you gave them seems a bit less fun all round.Afterall, this is a gardening site, not a site to obtain gardening things for resale.
I don't sell on E-bay, but I like to buy there occasionally.

Edited.

This message was edited May 19, 2005 9:09 AM

Hmmm, I agree with the word 'distasteful', and that the efforts spent in sharing seeds are a 'personal favor'. But are there strings attached to this gift? It certainly would take the fun out of it for me, and I would probably no longer trade with whomever. The one detail imzadi mentions, that these seeds were 'traded' would indicate that some value (seeds) was received in exchange; I would be more upset if the seeds that ended up on eBay were sent for postage. But, not worth upsetting oneself over, either.

I have the other side of this story now, and it's not as cut-and-dry as it looks from this one-sided thread. I don't know who is telling the truth, but I am definitely getting two very different stories from both sides.

There's my update so far.

dave

thanks dave, people always forget there are two sides. :)
hope y'all work it out and don't let it fester.

this didnt start here but will end here as i have decided to not trade with her any more and thats all i can do. i felt like this was wrong and wanted to know what others thought on this issue. i am not nameing names as there is really nothing i can do about this. I said that in an earlier post in this thread.

i in no way wanted any problems by voicing my concern for others to give me an opinion on. no i did not forget there are always two sides of things. I have repeatedly emailed this person and no response. i cant help how i feel when this has happened to me.

i did not mean to start any hurt feeling or anything that comes out of this. I wanted opinions. I got that and then some.

i will not trade from this person from this person any more. thats all i can do.

I think it would be wrong to sell direct trades or sase, but I don't think it would be wrong to grow them out and maybe sell some the next year. After all, by then you probably have way more than you need to keep or trade.

BittysGarden I find everyone on Dave's so generous. I was for 4 different colors of brug cuttings. The best part of this is the offer. I don't expect anyone to make it good as I am over it now. But I am always amazed and then not of the generosity here on Dave's garden. Thanks and I love you all very much

imzadi I am sorry this happened to you and I feel as you do and would not trade with them again.

Love you all,
Sandy

I dont have a problem with this person selling nest season after they grow themselves. thats a different story there.

but the thing is they arent growing them. What they get goes to ebay or their personal store. yes they have that too. i feel this is not right.

i hope i am still welcome here after all this but wanted to make everyone aware this is happening. I am not the only one this person has done this too and not answered emails or any kind of explantion. So i know I am not the only one out there.

I hope I havent caused to many hard feelings over this thread as i love the group. I have many friends here. And dont want to lose them or the group.

Thank you Dave!

To all of you whom I HAVE TRADED WITH and had dealings with, Imzadi is referring to me personally here in these posts. You that have traded with me can judge me on your own experiences here and those of you who have purchased items from my ebay listings can do so as well. I have never tried to hide the fact that I sell on ebay. Anyone that ever asked, I told them right out. I am not hiding it, in fact, I have even now opened a scifstore here. Now is that wrong as well?

I will honestly post right here and say I have not responded to several posts Imzadi has started referring to me personally, I am bigger than that, but this one has gone just to far, I am personally being attacked here and I don't like it one bit. So after informing Dave of this issue, I have decided to come here and speak openly, mind you, I have not even responded to any of your other "postings" that I know and you know you are referring to me about.

My end of this story: to you Imzadi, you know for a fact that I was the one who wrote you in the beginning telling you who I was on ebay (my member id there) I was the one you referred to as "stalking you" on ebay, I wrote you openly thru email and honestly saying I just happened to bid on the same thing as you, I had no idea that was you on ebay, as I had sent you countless times - freebies if you will, when I noticed you posted to the forums your wants. I had the items you wanted so I happily sent them to you "no strings attached". You never had a problem receiving my free things. And may I also point out that YOU are the one that won the item on ebay and not me.

Now onto this matter you have brought up and so many have voiced their opinions on: MY SEEDS, MY AUCTIONS, not your seeds, as I have NEVER gotten a trade at all from you, never, you say they were sent, but I didn't get them, so therefore I cannot sell YOUR seeds. Would you mind telling me which seeds you are referring to that you are so heartbroken over? I didn't harp on not getting your end of the trade, nor did I post to the forums "wanting everyone elses opinion on this matter". I dropped the subject and let it go. I have been nice here, reading your posts and just outright ignoring them, but you have gone to far this time. You are posting outright lies about me here and I don't think that is fair to these people on DG nor me.

Now to everyone else who I have traded with in the past: You may look at my items on ebay that I sell, I welcome any one of you to post here if those items that I traded you for are now for sale on ebay by me. I don't work that way, the items I sell I have either bought outright, purchased on ebay, or online or a seed company, or have grown, AND have germinated and tested these seeds, as well as grown them out. I know what I am selling, I have good repeat customers on ebay and I am proud of the fact that I have 100% positive feedback since I started selling there a couple of years ago.

I am sorry to everyone this has affected, I have had Imzadi's email blocked to me, so if she in fact has tried to write me I wouldn't know it, but I don't think she truly has.

I want to thank all the people who I have traded with, at present I know of only one person with whom I owe a trade to, it is mazus reptans, I won't mention names here, but if you happen to read this you know that we have this pending trade, and I will send that trade to you in the spring when weather is permitting as we decided in email.

That is just about it, I didn't want to resort to the ethics of the "other" forum, but I had to say this and get it out. If the things she said were true, then I wouldn't be so upset, but this is not fair, so I had to defend myself here openly and in public.

Laurrie
OhioBreezy

okay you want to go here then we will. i bet you didnt tell Dave everything did you?? Well I will and i have emails to back me up.

as for ebay you bidded on everything i bidded on. i mean everything. you got banned from people i deal with due to this fact. because after i went to ebay and they said there wasnt enough to go on about this issue i went to the people i deal with. i still have those emails somewhere. as far as the bids you ran them up and then quit bidding and i had to pay high prices. So i informed people that this was happening and you were bidding on everything i was. they made their choices to ban you. thats why you cant bid on certain items now. these others saw it too. even though ebay didnt at the moment. those from ebay i dont have but they are easily gettable if ebay is asked.

I also still have emails from where me and you have traded. so dont come here and say we have not traded. i am a pack rat even on my computer. i have never gotten anything free from you. i have emails to back me up in this.
I have sent seeds to you and never even heard they have gotten there. i have never gotten a response from you since all this started. How can i write to you when
the emails come back???

i have repeatedly said through out my thread that they are your seeds after you got them. but i feel this is wrong. My feelings. I didnt think i had to ask permission to post my feelings. Instead of maybe talking to me about this you went to Dave. I didnt . You went to him. I didnt even think of asking him until people asked me if i had and then up in ther thread i was still unsure about it.

maybe i should of went tyo him first but i wasnt going to name anybody. i didnt until you did yourself on this thread.

You are not saying true things here either.

i wanted opinions just that never mentionmed names are anything. you are the one who brought your name into it not me.

well as i have said earlier and will say agian. i will not buy trade or even talk to you ever agian after this.

i didnt start this thread to name bash anyone as i reiterate i never put any names or gender in here.

i didnt start this thread as a war and i refuse to make it into one.

you and i both know what happened really. if you want to deny it fine. thats your call.

they are your seeds you are right never disagreed with that. but you wont be getting any more of mine.

i am done. if people want to respond thats their choice. i will defend myself and answer anyones questions. but i will not talk to you personally anymore.

people are free to make their own mind up about both of us. thats their choice.

i am sorry that this ended this way but hey its my feelings. and i dont need permisiion to get opinions on my feelings when no one was named. others have posted about people and bad swaps before on this site.

Dave all i can say is sorry that this went this way. I am not going to talk buy or trade with her so as far as i am concerned this is done!!!!!!. Imzadi Marie

Ok play your game dear, I have NEVER gotten a trade from you, so I cannot sell your seeds. Bring on your packrat emails you saved on our trade - I was to send you 30 of my egg tree seeds and my swamp cabbage (Ipomoea aquatica), you were to send me some knoilans black morning glories and some red moonvine seeds. I never got that and didn't harp on it. Yours were sent, now I cannot say and only you know if you got those items from me. But if you have them and are now trading them, perhaps those folks should wonder where yours came from huh?

And yes I did send you items for nothing: orange noah morning glory, clitoria, just to name 2. I do keep trading records as well. So when I send an item I mark the date, and when it comes in to me: I mark that date it arrived as well.

I agree - this is done, you started it and I had to defend myself, so let it end here. I know I am. You will hear no more replies from me on this subject.

If any of you have concerns and want to email me, that is fine, I do answer all my emails and anyone who has traded with me knows this.

Enjoy your day, I know I will mine because I have finally gotten the courage to knock down your accusations about me.
Laurrie

you havent knocked down anything. I have and will stand by what i have said.

i sent the morning glory seeds and as for the others postage.

to answer your qwuestion no i never got the seeds. i sent several emails on this asking if you sent them and when and maybe did they come back. no reponse.

How did you figure i was talking about you in the first place? someone must have told you . i never mentioned names except in personal emails wondering if it was you.

i could of been talking about anyone. lots of people sell on ebay. very intersting but hey who cares.

i am done with you and this is it. we agree we are done with each other .

as for anyone emailing me i will answer here or there. i dont have anything to hide.

Marie

As you can all see, there are definitely two sides to this story. I don't know how anyone can take either Marie's or Laurrie's side - it's just too complicated and I doubt anybody will ever know the full story, except for the parties directly involved.

Dave

Well said dave, excellent point.

Now we can all move on to more wonderful topics, Yay!

I agree. Let it drop. Life's too short.

I think you two should work this out amongst yourselves and not bring other DGers into it. I appreciate Dave's never failing wisdom. Yes, lets move onto other things and Life is too short. I read this whole thread in hopes that it would somehow filter out and adults would emerge again. Just resolve to not talk to each other and go on with life. I wish all a sunshiney day. :) Kathy

Well said MM

Paul

I think we pretty much offered opinions on this question based on it being a general query, and not specific to the two traders involved here. So, my wish it that any statements offered here not be taken as choosing sides.

Any of us who trade a lot end up with our own lists of good traders, great traders, and those with whom we might not trade again.

Wishing you all the best,

John

Thank you Paul. :) Kathy

Well stated John.

Now where's that compost forum when we need it??? ;)

LOL!! :)

Thanks Dave,
You have much wisdom. I truely love both traders and will trade with either or both if I have a chance. I am happy that I am not Dave but truely believe his wisdom comes from above. His choice of words and the way this was handled sounds like my pastor. Thanks Dave your a blessing.
Sandy