Propagation: Starting seeds in rockwool cubes

I would like to see information on the RW growing medium and whether or not it is carcinogenic. I believe the link Pardancanda put on the other thread in the brug forum was referring to the rockwool insulation for homes and it is not put together at all like the growing medium. It is loose and it does fly around easily. I'm all for being careful, but I want to see it in writing. I can't find anything on a hydrophonics site that says to be careful, wear masks, etc. Anyone?

Oh gosh....I do mine just the opposite! Don't you have RW fibers floating into the air when they are cut DRY? How do you keep the air borne fibers to a minimum?

When my seedlings get as big as your Brug, I'll start fertilizing them too.

I'll search for the site that I read the information on recently.

Shirley, I would think if you are concerned that you could lightly spray the surface and then cut. I don't seem to have stuff floating around in the air and very little on the counter where I cut the stuff. What I'm using is very dense.

Bruie!!! That is a great looking seedling!!!!
I hope mine do half as well. No wonder you are convinced.
I am assuming you are going to put this in the dirt with the rockwool attached?
I am still thinking that as the roots get larger they will push their way out of whatever they are in. If you think about what happens when roots are in the ground and how they are able to get around things, it makes sense to me.

Yes, I am sure you would ruin the roots trying to take them out of the rockwool. Growers using hydroponics as a method of growing start seedlings in cuts that will then fit inside rockwool slabs and the roots just continue to grow through the rockwool. I've put some in soil already and should go check to see how the roots are growing.

Gee, this thread is great! I lost track of it when it was moved. I wish Dave could keep a copy of it on the original forum it sprung from as well as this one so it is easily seen by people like me who rarely ventures off the brug forum.

I thought oasis was what florists used for keeping the flowers arranged as wanted in an arrangement. Am I wrong?

I would do this only for you Brugie, my dear friend.....
WARNING: the following can be considered acutely BORING!!

I have read literally now for hours on the safety of rockwool. And since you requested this, I will share my thoughts as well as what I have found. Everyone should do their own research and make up their own mind. I will share with you the articles that helped me form my own personal opinion of the safety of rockwool.

Everyone is free to not use rockwool at all, wear gloves, wear a mask, wet it down before use, or use it only outside. To do all or none or some. I personally will use it with none of the safeguards mentioned above because I do not feel they are warranted however I will use my common sense.

I am a very conservative person and rarely use any chemicals due to health concerns but I have no fear of using rockwool cubes the way we are using them and using them with absolutely no protection what so ever, Brugie.

As far as gloves, evidently some people will find they are sensitive to this material, I have not found I am so I won't be wearing gloves. Of course I have only handled it for a few seconds at a time so if I have some reason in the future find I need to be in contact with it for longer periods of time, I may find I need gloves. Rockwool is an irritant so it can cause irritation! Again, for how we are using it and the amount of time we are touching it, I do not think it is too much of a concern for most people. If you get irritated, then use gloves! I f you don't, do not bother too!

Since reading extensively on rockwool I do not believe even if it were carcinogenic or that it could cause any lung diseases that the way we are using it is cause for concern. In fact the literature supports that rock wool workers who work with this stuff 52 weeks a year are not at risk either. They do not even have to wear masks unless they are dealing with particularly dust making tasks like removing rockwool insulation from over their heads. The earlier studies that resulted in it being thought to POSSIBLY cause cancer have all been found to be flawed and newer studies seem to indicate it does not. Also new manufacturing methods of making rockwool has decreased its dust making capability from what I have read. I sure am not going to breath it in just in case but common sense manipulation of it will ensure that.

But even if it does cause cancer like most things seem to in life, the way we are using it and for the amount of time and way we are exposed, the risk can't be as high as sitting next to someone smoking.

Most studies I have read deal with it as insulation for it has been used in that way for over 50 years and many studies have been done. In the last few years, new manufacturing methods has made it even less likely to break down and become dust when being handled. It is the respirable fibers that would be cause of concern.

While I believe nothing is prudent to inhale, not even our polluted air at times, I do not see any cause for concern unless you plan on grinding it up and tossing it in the air above your nose. When I see all the second hand smoke around us that definitely cause lung disease and cancer to us humans, I wonder why we do not all wear masks.

Did you know even sand can cause lung diseases which lead to lung cancer? But I never see children wearing masks when playing in sand boxes, throwing it at each other.

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:2_KF1jwSimgJ:www.msha.gov/regs/complian/guides/hazcom/msds/HazComMSDS.pdf+material+safety++data+sheet+rockwool&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I have no problem with someone taking every precaution which includes not even using rockwool but I also think it is important to be realistic in our fears and not scare people when it is not warranted. A little common sense when using any material goes a long way.

Here are some interesting things I read about it. And keep in mind these were written in relation to workers who work with it for hours on end daily, not people who are in contact with it for literally seconds once in a great while like I am when using it for brug seed starting.

http://www.rockwooldenmark.dk/sw37297.asp
Mineral wool is removed from the cancer list


WHO's research institute IARC has just changed the classification of insulation products. According to the normal procedures of the Directorate of Labour Inspection the result of this will be that the authorities will remove the mineral wool supplied e.g. by ROCKWOOL A/S from the Danish cancer list. Read more here.

Mineral wool is removed from the cancer list

WHO's cancer research institute IARC has changed the classification of insulation products from e.g. ROCKWOOL A/S and Saint-Gobain Isover A/S in a positive direction and thereby confirms that it is safe to work with mineral wool.


http://www.3rlighting.com/hydroponics/rockwool.html

N.B. Dry rockwool is an "irritant". Before it is moistened, it is scratchy. If rockwool is cut, any airborne dust which you breathe in can be uncomfortable and make you sneeze. Rockwool is not classified as a carcinogen like asbestos, it is an irritant like perlite. If you breathe in rockwool dust, you are likely to sneeze it back out--like any other dust or dirt. Most people simply moisten the rockwool to keep the irritation to a minimum.

If you are allergic to mold, after the rockwool is wetted, you may be affected--use common sense.
If you have emphysema, lung cancer, or any other lung problem, consider wearing a dust mask if you are handling dry rockwool or perlite-use common sense.



http://208.186.168.18/~admin42/pages/benefits/hspp/attachment_a.html

NAIMA encourages and conducts scientific investigations into the health aspects of SVF products and disseminates the results to government agencies, industry, customers, employers and the general public. SVF health and safety research spans the industry’s history. NAIMA member companies have funded over 50 million dollars of research at leading laboratories and universities in the United States and abroad. In the past ten years, multiple comprehensive reviews of research on the health aspects of SVF by U.S. and international organizations have concluded that SVF have not been shown to cause cancer or nonmalignant respiratory disease ("NMRD") in humans. The industry attaches significant weight to the substantial epidemiology (both mortality and morbidity) which has been conducted for workers in the SVF industry. Over a half century of exposure to tens of thousands of workers, to all fiber compositions, including the most durable compositions, at the highest exposure levels, have not demonstrated a causal association with respect to NMRD, lung cancer, or mesothelioma.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:QN8prgK1PmQJ:www.rockwool.com/graphics/Rockwool-International/Publications/Press-releases/1-2002-Newsletter.PDF+grodan+rockwool+cancer&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
dated APRIL 2002, read last item on page 2 middle column that starts with "the october 2001...." It won't let me cut and paste.

http://208.186.168.18/~admin42/pages/resources/safety/rock1.html
Do rock or slag wools cause cancer in people?
Studies examining possible health effects and safe use of mineral wools have found no consistent association between exposure to rock and slag wool and respiratory disease or cancer in humans. The weight of the scientific evidence confirms that rock and slag wool are safe to manufacture, install and use when manufacturers' recommended work practices are followed.


http://208.186.168.18/~admin42/pages/benefits/hspp/hspp_work.html

Rockwool workers can be exposed to rockwool respirable fibers without protection at below:

"The adoption of a voluntary one fiber per cubic centimeter (1 f/cc) PEL simply reaffirms the exposure limit that has been recommended by industry and government and various authoritative bodies for several years."

When the PEL of 1 f/cc on an eight hour TWA is exceeded, use a NIOSH certified dust respirator (certified N95 or greater). ( I put this in so you will know what type of mask is recommended to wear if you are so inclined).

So if you think you are exposed to more than one fiber per cubic centimeter (1 f/cc) PEL (and I do not even think agricultural rockwool has the same tiny fibers that are considered respirable like in rockwool insulation or it would have a warning on it I would think) wear a mask as described in above article.

And if you are going to work with rockwool in heavy dust exposure jobs you should read this article.

http://208.186.168.18/~admin42/pages/resources/library/html/N027.HTML



I know..... BORING!!! LOL

Wow after all that I'm dumping all mine before the rock wool police come for me lol.

Fibergalss workers sometimes protect themselves with baby powder. Prior to getting all wet and sweaty they rub baby powder into their skin pores and this stops the ich.

Could be you could just do that to your hands and wrist and do without gloves.Ernie

Thanks Kell. I'm sure going to continue using Rockwool. I've had good luck with it and I'm not afraid of it. I can't see anything that you have posted that would make me feel like it is going to cause me to have any problems using it. Fortunately, it doesn't cause skin irritations for me either. Maybe I'm just lucky. LOL! Thanks for all your hard work. I know it takes a long time to run all of this kind of information down to help us all make up our minds what we want to do.

Kell the flourist do use an oasis thing and propagators use something like it I have seen it on the roots of dead fall flowers. What I saw was not rock wool and I am pretty sure it was not sponge. I assumed it was oasis but now don't think so. Ernie

Florist's oasis and the kind for growing seeds and cuttings are not the same thing at all. The kind for growing is much more porous.

Well, I have only one question on Oasis....do I have to hold my breath when I use it?? LOL

Brugie, it was never rated as carcinogenic, just POSSIBLY and now that has even changed. Regardless of its rating, we are not blowing small fibers into our attics or chipping it away above our heads for removal. We are not waving it in the air or crushing it and then leaning down to breath it in. If I have to play with it for some reason beyond what I do now, I will wet it first, not even because I think it needs to be but because I have always been a careful person! LOL

I saved seeds from some very nice strawberries last year. I planted them Jan 20 in small 6-pk pots in good potting soil, placed on heating pad in front of a large eastern exposure window. Something is coming up but they don't look like S-Berries! Has anybody had experieince with this?
Marymar
Grants Pass, Or Zone 8


This message was edited Feb 4, 2004 1:06 PM

If you put them in rockwool cubes, the seeds have to be something you put in there. I'd give them time, the true leaves will tell the story.

Hi everyone, this is a great thread and I think there is a wealth of helpful information here. My only problem is that I have NO idea what rock wool actually is. I live in Israel, so a description of what it' smade of is going to be necessary if I'm to have any chance of finding something like that here. I'd really appreciate any help you can offer me here. Thanks in advance!

-Julie

hi-- just been reading the rockwool thread-- and boy! are you all an education? but I do have one question. Is it necesssary to use the rockwool under growing lights? and if so what strength-- where do you hang them and where is a good inexpensive place to buy them--
I'm " a newbie" just went to a wonderful RU hwere in the Blueridge and am looking foward to next Jan-- so I can push those winter blues awayby planting my seeds that I got in the trade.
thanks,
blazer1

If you grow seeds in the short daylight months you MUST have lights on them.

Most of us use the 48" chain hung shoplight fixtures you can find anywhere.

Use 2 - 40 W bulbs in each fixture .

One bulb each Warm light and Cool light will give a good color spectrum.

On a 24 x 48" shelf you would want to hang 2 fixtures.

Adjust them as the plants grow to be 2 to 3 inches above the plants.

many thanks-- i will get this taken care of-- i am glad I can use shop lights-- i was afraid it was going to be some very expensive lights and that sort of thing.

I want to do this-- but I guess i am like the rest of us-- we just have to be conservative-- I will keep on reading this thread and learning.

have a great day.
blazer1

Shirley,
I thought to bump this up.GREAT informative thread,
Brigitte

Good idea Brigitte ;-)

(package on the way)

From the Darius quote:
27 cubic feet ("one cubic yard") only becomes 37 cubic feet? Welcome to America where numbers (Enron, Woldcom, your mortgage, etc.) are just made up.

This message was edited Nov 18, 2005 8:03 AM

lol a numbers critic

Brugie,

What UUallace was saying is that one cubic yard is equal to 27 cubic feet (3 foot = 1 yard) so therefore 3 x 3 x 3 = 27, NOT 37 as the vendor claims. Honest mistake, but some people might take it at face value (such as Enron claiming how well it was doing when in fact it was in deep debt and I think he meant World Com, not Woldcom).

Butch

I took it to read .......... one cubic yard of ROCK spun into 37 cf of rockwool.

Which IMO is way off , being on the low side.

Have you ever held a small rockwool cube ? It's just a tad heavier than a cotton ball.

When I get a whole case of RW it surely , by it's heft, could never be mistaken for a box of rocks ;-)

Easy Rockwool primer

http://www.simplyhydro.com/growing3.htm

Thanks Scoot.

1 CY = 27 CF period. Doesn't matter whether it's gravel, water, cotton candy, air, or rockwool.

You are right, I wasn't arguing what a cubic yard is, but one Cubic yard of Rock, spun into Rockwool makes 37 Cubic feet of rockwool and that isn't 1 cubic yard. Do the math. I won't argue the point further. You can have the last word.

KEEP IN MIND ROCK WOOL DOES NOT BIODEGRADE....HAS BECOME A REAL NIGHTMARE FOR COUNTRIES DOING A LOT OF HYDROPONICS..

Relax, It is just stone not a nightmare artificial substance ........... lol

If stone did biodegrade we would be in beeeg trouble ;-)

lol scoot!

Hmm, a cubic yard of basalt spun into rockwool ...
they would weigh the same amount.

density of basalt = 2.8 to 3 times that of water
1 cubic foot of water: 62.4 pounds
1 cubic foot of basalt: 180+ pounds
1 cubic yard of basalt: 5,000 pounds.

How many cubic yards of rockwool would weigh 5,000 pounds?
- Bigger than my house
- smaller than a cubic mile
- more than I can afford.

Shredded, I hope it's a good soil amendment.

OMG! How time flies ♥

lol yup