PVC growlight stand plans?

kooger, my Menard's has the same unit you are talking about -and- you can buy them one piece at a time and make your own configuration. A 2ft. x 4 ft. shelf is $12.00
But I think I have plenty 'for now'.
* mad laugh *
shirley

Menard's just had 4' florescent lights on special for $5. but I didn't get up there that week. Boo Hoo!

Aw Shoot !!!!!!

I ducked!!

Hey i have been hit so many times whats another hole in the head saves on air conditioning.

Kooger yes thats the one. Ernie

Hey i have been hit so many times whats another hole in the head saves on air conditioning.

Kooger yes thats the one.

Shirley enough is never enough.

Ernie

Ok, I will check them out better. I like the wheels idea. The local stop-and-rob here uses them for their condiment stand. FYI: C-stores are known as stop-and-robs in the family, courtesy of my uncle, the cop! Small wayside diners are choke-and-pukes! There's your Sat. eve. chuckle!! hee hee

Sam's Club has a great 6'-tall 4'-long metal shelf system with 6 shelves - for only $70!!

It is much better than the PVC one I just built, and will hold 20-24 seedling trays.

Jim Kennard

Ernie it not just your beautifully sized green house that saves you - its that zone number next to your abode. Half of the things I start you could leave in the ground over the winter. Oh well, zone envy will not get it any warmer any earlier.

Whelp.....my 2 PVC stands cost $69.28 for both and they will hold 20 trays plus 6 hanging plants on each. Altho I must admit yours are more aesthetically pleasing =)
.............It is doubtful if I will put trays on the tippy-top shelf, this area will be for my taller plants.
The other shelves all have room for 20" tall plants.
......I really can hardly wait to get them out into the front porch, if it ever warms up.....dang it's been a cold week !
§

Jim Kennard,

I got one of those chrome wire stands from Sam's Club. I got their display unit because apparently they didn't have any more. The shelves are 4' x 18" deep and the thing stands 76" tall because it has 3" casters which make it easy to roll around, but 4 inches taller. It's in the kitchen/dining area and my wife has appropriated one of the shelves for our microwave. I guess we will put a toaster oven there too.

Since this shelf unit is in a relatively warm living area (68F night to 72F day) it really is too warm for sustained seedling growth. But it is a good place to start seedlings and I have a freshly planted tray of onion seeds there now. Hopefully they will germinate soon. I have only one fluorescent fixture mounted over them at the moment, but I intend to mount three 6-inch wide fixtures per 18-inch shelf, with no open space between the fixtures. I have to cut notches in the outside metal relectors to allow them to fit between the metal support colums.

The open wire shelves are handy for hanging fluorescent fixtures on. You can attach the chains anywhere. Incidentally, I am using those Home Depot 32-watt 4-foot T8 shoplights you mentioned in an earlier message in this thread. Surprisingly, I believe 32-watt T8s are actually brighter than 40-watt T12s. Check it out. The T8s are more efficient. And the bulbs are economical. I got a box of ten Philips cool white T8s for $19.99 at Home Depot. All told, I have bought 28 of the Home Depot fixtures, because I have some 4' x 2' chrome wire shelves coming from Northern Tool and I plan to populate each tray of it with 4 of the Home Depot fixtures. And I am overdriving the T8s to make them 70% brighter than their already bright normal level. It takes two normal fixtures to make one overdriven fixture, hence my large number of Home Depot fixtures.

The Northern Tool shelves are similar to the Sam's Club shelves except they have only four shelves and the casters are a larger 5-inch size for heavier duty. Oh, and the unit costs $129.99. I will put the 48"x24" shelving unit in our breezeway where we can maintain a lower temperature in the range of 50F to 65F, which should produce stockier transplants. As a bit of serendipity, the fluorescent tubes may also be a little brighter in this ambient temperature range. Our breezeway, though enclosed, is currently unheated and uninsulated and it runs about 32F in this cold Maine winter, so we will add some insulation and some kind of thermostatically controlled electric heater to keep its night temperature from falling below 50F. The numerous fluorescent fixtures will provide a significant heat source when their timers have them on.

-- Burton --

Jagonjune nothing can save me from me.The green house is way to small. This little program is a perfect example of the eyes being bigger than the belly so to speak.Funny thing is if my belly was any bigger I would have to have my bibbs made by Omar the tent maker.

As for zone envy I would kill for yours or at least for lots of the things you enjoy. Hunting, fishing, and a reduced population for starters. The thrill of turning two or three high energy English setters loose on a frosty clear morning in the sound of silence is something I will never experience again. Now I look at the pictures of my sons little trips to Montanana, South Dakota, and even Eastern Washington and drool. So I guess we all have zone envy or address envy.

Everyone about screwing pvc joints to keep them from spreading. This is not a fundamently sound practice. While some have stated that they do so and seem to be happy with the results so far.

I myself would not do it. Screwing pvc compromises the strenght of the material. Localized fasteners reduce the integrity of the material. Part of the beauty of pvc is its ability to expand and contract with heat change allowing it to remain strong.. If you must screw the stuff at least use a pilot drill first. A better way would be drill it and pin the joint with a cotter pin putting a little tape over the bent ends to prevent you from being scratched from the sharp ends or by using very small machine screws with nuts size 8 would do nicely.

As far as that goes white pvc electrical tape wrapped neatly around each joint should work as well as any thing unless you want to pick the thing up and move it while it is loaded.Ernie

Ernie,
........... I was kinda thinking of the PVC connectors working on what I would call a gradual compression principle. So wouldn't inserting a screw compromise this? Huh?....lol
Once again folks....."I" know what "I" mean.........
LOL

Scooter Yes any screw be it screw in or thru bolted will compromise,Any deviation from glue period will sacrafice some part of the design principals of pvc. Some changes more than others can be a trade off. Is the risk of cracking worth what you are trying to do?. Each has to figure that out for themselves.

Form follows function was the first rule of design I ever learned in my work and at home. Hey there are lots of ways to do most every thing and my way may be right for me but wrong for you. If what a person builds ends with the builder being happy with it then I say ok. Ernie

Maine Man What's overdriving? (at least as relates to lights)
eweed from the stuff on this thread it sounds like we could use one or two of you handy times up here on occasion so if you ever want empty unpopulated experiences again.....

Jagonjune,

Overdriving a 2-bulb fluorescent fixture consists of rewiring the 2-bulb ballast to drive a single bulb and adding another rewired ballast to drive the other bulb. Each ballast is driving only one-half as many bulbs as it was designed for, so it is "loafing". But the bulbs get more current and hence burn about 70% brighter.

You can also overdrive a 4-bulb fixture by reconnecting the 4-bulb ballast to only two bulbs and bringing in another 4-bulb ballast for the remaining two bulbs. Once again, the ballasts "loaf" but the bulbs burn brighter.

Not all fluorescent light ballasts are overdrivable. First of all, none of the magnetic ballasts can be overdriven. All of the older fluorescent fixtures used magnetic ballasts and you are probably used to hearing them hum.

Many newer fluorescent fixtures use electronic ballasts. They have a lot of advantages, including that they are quiet. But only some of the newer electronic ballasts can be overdriven. It depends on the wires that come from them.

Overdriving does shorten your bulb life, but I think it is worth it to get more light on my plants. Besides, my Philips 48-inch T8 bulbs have a rated life of 20,000 hours (if my math is right, that would be 2.6 years of continuous operation.)

Since it is recommended to change a fluorescent bulb after one year of continuous operation because their phosphors decline in efficiency, and since I won't be burning the bulbs 24 hours a day or all 365 days of the year, I think overdriving makes sense for my plant starting operation. I hope to get at least two seasons out of my overdriven bulbs. I want to get as much affordable light as possible on my seedlings, and this seems the best way to go for me. There are, of course, high tech expensive lights that are much brighter.

Examples of 2-bulb Rapid Start ballasts that can be overdriven are the Sunpark SL-15 (the ones I am using), the Advance REL-2S40-SC, Advance REL-2S40-RH-TP, GE B232R120HP, and Sylvania QTP 2x32T8/120 RSN-D.

Examples of 2-bulb Instant Start ballasts that can be overdriven are the Advance REL-2P32-SC, GE B232I120RH, Sylvania QT 2x32/120 IS-SC, and the Sylvania QTP 2x32T8/120 ISN-D.

There is a lot of information on the Internet about overdriving fluorescent fixtures. Aquarium hobbyists have been doing it for many years to get more light on their aquarium plants (and fish). Some have even done 4X overdriving, although that is not a good idea for plant growing. The regular 2X overdriving that I am doing is better suited for growing plants.

-- Burton --

WOW

I've had my PVC joints secured with drywall screws for over 3 years without any problems.
I did drill a pilot hole before I screwed them in.

Paul

Burton makes perfect sense to me. Much cheaper than buying or converting to HO fluorescent.I have some of each type of ballast and they are cheap and easy to replace.Ernie

Jargonejune and is there a pretter sight than a thousand ducks on their final approach to a parrie pond at sunset?
My great American dream is quite different than most.In another time my nick name could be outback. Ernie

Ranks right up there with the return of the snow geese in the spring or the white swans or a thousand other views on the prairies in almost any weather except a blizzard but maybe that is the price we have to pay

opps jagonjune seems I snuck in an extra R and an extra E in your name sorry. Thats the problem two finger typers have can't see the big picture.

Yes for the Blizzard but think of the solitude they bring with them. Yes its a pain to feed live stock but how fun to listen to the wind as it pushes the snow over the landscape changing it every few minutes washing it clean of the dirt and grime of real life.

Yep you called it right we pay a price and its true no pain no gain. Ernie

Burton:

Thanks for that good information on the different sources for shelves, and on overdriving the bulbs.

My experience is that ample light and separation of the plants, so their leaves don't overlap (causing them to "stretch" their stems looking for light) assure good stems, even in temperatures of 68-72 degrees.

You might use the commercial greenhouses as an example. I have grown some wonderfully stocky plants in commercial greenhouse conditions of 70-80+ degrees.

again in my experience, the temperatures below 65 degrees are not very conducive for many vegetable plants to get started, and I'd rather have them warmer than that, if possible.

Thanks again for your insights.

Jim,

"My experience is that ample light and separation of the plants, so their leaves don't overlap (causing them to "stretch" their stems looking for light) assure good stems, even in temperatures of 68-72 degrees."

Thanks for that tip. I will try that extra-space technique to see if our kitchen/dining area plant shelves can succeed beyond the germinating stage. We will need the extra growing space on the Sam's Club shelves anyway, so you have given me hope that our warmer living space can serve to produce healthy transplants.

We will still continue with the breezeway project, because it is about the only available space for our on-order 24" x 48" shelving unit.

Last year, with much weaker fluorescent fixtures from Wal-Mart, we had lots of problems with spindly plants.

If you want to try overdriving fluorescent fixtures, I can provide a URL to detailed information.

-- Burton --

Yes, Please.

Jim

Jim,

There is a forum on the Garden Web called "Growing Under Lights" and in it there is a long message thread entitled, "I have found the BEST cheap fluorescent ballast/fixture" posted by Zink, zone 6a, on Wed, Nov 26, 03 at 12:29. Much of the basic information was included in the original post, but much clarification, additional information, photos, and diagrams were added by Zink, Lightt, and others in subsequent messages. I learned a lot from this message thread and said as much in a post there.

Hopefully you can access the thread. I am a member of the Garden Web (also under the name MaineMan) and membership there is free, but I think non-members can read the threads. Let me know if you can read this thread:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lights/msg111229472000.html

-- Burton --

Thanks Burton:

The Food For Everyone Foundation, of which I am President, is listed there also.

Jim Kennard

Is there any type of fire hazard in doing this to the bulbs?

Poppysue: Thanks for the idea! I "built" one today that holds one 48" double shop fixture. Its shaped like the one in your link, just out of pvc. Its too big to use as a tabletop unti, but functional. Next I'll tackle the shelving unit. Thanks to you all for your great ideas and input!

Melissa,

There is no fire hazard for me because I am careful to do good electrical work, using the appropriate procedures, tools and materials. However, there would be a fire hazard or electrical hazard for anyone who did a bad job of rewiring the fixture.

As far as the bulbs themselves running warmer, they aren't even close to a fire hazard. Based on the information given by Scottplumerias 5KC on Tue, Jan 20, 04 at 15:38 in the referenced Garden Web message thread, in regular fixtures the T8 bulbs warm to about 100F. When 2X overdriven they are about 120F. Scott made those measurements with his infrared pyrometer. I don't have one. (sob)

In my experience, the overdriven bulbs are noticeably warmer, but not so hot that you can't remove the bulb with your bare hands. Definitely not a fire hazard. And the overdriving ballasts themselves actually run cooler, because they are driving a smaller load.

-- Burton --

I haven't tried this but in theory one inch wooden dowling should slide inside the one inch pvc pipe. Dowling is usually sold in three foot incraments.

If you slide the dowel through the horozontal pcs and center it you will make the supports much stiffer and the shelves will hold more weight with a lot less sag. Ernie

Great Idea Ernie!!

Thank you Burton, not sure if I can convince hubby to do it or not, Nascar starts again this weekend. LOL

I doubt hubby would do a bad job... he's a Master Mechanic, and is trained on the electic hybrids, plus he's done a lot of wiring around here. :-)

Melissa other things should work also such as a good coarse grained grout or pour foam.All you are trying to do is stop the first moment of movement.

I just thought the dowel was cheap and easy for the results I am sure it will return.

Now about the overdriving I can do it but I hate electrical work send hubby lol. Ernie

Melissa ,
......... I have seen some PVC Hoop-House directions that have you insert a length of smaller PVC to strengthen the ridge and joints.
Shirley

Another Good idea Shirley!! And the PVC certainly would be cheaper than the dowel. hmmm decisions decisions!
Maybe I'll do both. :-)

Scooter I am not saying you are wrong but there are only a couple of pipe sizes that will fit inside with a nice snug fit.You could be right If I remember I will check tomorrow at work

I have seen those type drawings and the ones I have seen mentioned using emt conduit for reinforcing plastic pipe.

I should have remembered that because it is cheap and comes in 10 foot pcs and is really strong compared to plastic. Having 10 feet to work with you could make the support pc longer.

Lots of ways to do most things and when we brainstorm we get to use a little of this and some of that untill the best way is found. Ernie

I agree Ernie. Just look at the different ideas that have been "spawned" in this thread alone!

Melissa

You guys should all be on the Red Green show!LOL

This is the 3rd year I've used mine. I have it really loaded with flats andplants and have never had a problem. The PVC is strong enough without anything in the center.

Paul

Ernie, I found the plans I mentioned for the re-enforced PVC.
Sheesch ! No wonder.......
..........They used 1" PVC with 3/4" conduit inside. I guess it could be OK for a temp GH or seedhouse but even so I think their idea is just too lightweight =)

I'm wondering after the combined cost of materials, why not go 1 1/2" from the git-go?

taa-taa

Scooterbug didnt get to the measuring today but I see you found the conduit to be the reinforcer.

I have 12 x 48 hoop style high tunnel made of 1 inch pvc with a i inch ridge poleI used no reinforcing and no purlins. This is surely too light for your snow loads . You need a stringer set on post under your ridge and probably one more on each side. Yes bigger for permanate type and you have the option of schedual 80 which has a much thicker wall thickness it is grey in color vs white for schedual 40.

Ernie