Neighborhood Boys.....

I need to vent..... Let me say first thing I love children. And the sound of children playing is like music to a Mom's ears. But.....four neighborhood boys were playing last evening in the neighbors yard. I knew 2 of them and generally trust them. When I see them playing in and around a parked car I get nervous but don't say a word. Mom taught me to mind my business. They were chasing their cat with water guns and when the cat ran into my yard to get away the 2 that I don't know came after him. I casually mentioned not to hurt the cat. They of course got smart but ran the other way. I expected that. About 10 minutes later I was in my home and could smell smoke. So I did the usual thing of walking around each room doing the sniff thing and checking for warm walls. Nada...Then I looked out my living room window and there were the 4 boys with a lighter trying to catch the dried, frost bitten leaves on fire. I WENT NUTS!! Those trees are only about 10 feet from my home!! I ran outside and screamed. And of course they ran..but you talk about furious!! I tried to call the parent of the one boy that I knew but didn't get an answer. His sister came over for her piano lesson and I told her to tell her Mom to call me. My husband said I should've called the police. Yeah right...Our house would be burned up by the time they'd get there. The other parents of the boy I know drink a tremendous amount of alcohol so that wouldn't work either. Here's my fear: We're not home during the day and some evenings because of work and other activities. If these boys have lighters then they won't stop at dried leaves. Not to mention my pond, greenhouse, and garage. I guess my only solution is to actually call the local police and ask them to patrol for a few days.

Would someone please explain to me why parents aren't responsibile for their children anymore? (gosh I'm sounding very old here).... Sorry......

Thanks for listening.....

snap some pictures of the boys if you can, then call the police and tell them about it.

Oh, I like that idea. Good one CoCo..Thank you!!

I can understand your fear and the fear of retaliation if you turn them in. But I agree with COCO regarding the photos. What are we to do in this day and age of terrorism when we can't even feel safe in our own homes. We used to be able to talk with the parents and they would put the fear of God in them but not any more. I love children also and have thirteen grandchildren but I see them running all over their parents. I would never think about talking to my parents or elders the way SOME children do these days. What ever happened to respect your elders and listen to your parents? I must be getting old too because this is a real thorn in my side.
Jan

I think it is harder to parent these days. This is definately not an excuse but a comparison of how myself and friends were raised as compared to how I am raising mine and how others are rasing theirs. It used to be you could give a kid a spanking when it was needed. Burning stuff in another person's yard-yeah, that would sure get a spanking! Nowadays, your kid can call social services or the police and say you 'beat' them. Guess where you end up?? Torturing an animal? Yep, spanking in my book. Again, would the kid call the police? Now, you go out there and squirt those kids with a hose, like they were doing to the cat, you probably abused them! I don't know what the answer is. Child abusers should be in jail!! It is just hard to say where the authorities draw the line. You are not supposed to punish your kids, you are supposed to boister their self esteem. Spanking lowers self esteem. Grounding is cruel and unusual punishment. Geeze! Like I said, it is harder now. I'm not saying spanking is the answer. I am just saying times are different and the surrounding world has so much more to offer and the young minds are not as naive and........it is hard to be a parent! ;) I hope someone has a good answer for you and the rest of us!

I spanked mine and would today. And again..I'm sounding very old..but the concept of not being able to at the very least holler at neighborhood children for starting fires just drives me crazy. If I could've gotten the one child by the ear and told him to take me to his Mother.....well, you get the idea. My husband and I still plan on talking to the one parent but it's unfortunately not going to help. And I don't want to be the neighbor that all the kids hate and call names either. **sigh** so frustrating....

Oh, Sledder, I can imagine your frustration! CoCo's advice about getting pictures is great. And once you have pictures of the kids, I'd let it "slip" that you have camera surveillance of your yard. That might deter them.

Either that or they'll start putting on shows for you. ;)

Take pictures from the window while you're calling 911, report the fire. If it's out by the time the dept trucks come, then fine. They'll see that a fire was lit, and they will be then forced to investigate. While I understand that there isn't time during the fire to get the dept guys there to put it out, someone can be spraying or stamping the fire out after the call has been made. Cell phones are great for this feature, as you can be gathering a bucket of water and running down the street while on a cell phone calling emergency services.

I personally would be terrified if I saw the fire trucks and cop cars coming down the street to even investigate something I may have done.

If you're disappointed in the parenting skills of these children, and truly believe they are not parented properly, perhaps an anonymous call from a phone different from the home phone to Children's Services is in order. I realize that a call to CYS is going to anger some parents here that think "no one knows how hard it is to parent these days", but Mom's right - the parents that gave birth to the kids she speaks of are either never home or too intoxicated to raise their kids. An anonymous call suggesting that some neighbor children are setting fires and possible torturing a cat is in order. We all pay taxes to fund these services, then fear "what everyone will think of us if we take action." Action is better taken now than when a cat is found charred and dead, or the house is burned down. By then, it's too late, and someone other than the children and parents have to pay for the lack of action.

I know I don't have kids, and I don't know what it's like to raise kids, and I wasn't "around back in the good old days", but I also know I pay taxes, and if I'm afraid, or uncomfortable, or feel at risk from neighborhood children, I'm going to call the cops or the fire department. I refuse to pay a mortgage and taxes, just to watch my house go up in flames "because it's so hard to raise kids these days."

-Jennifer

Sledder,

How frustrating! The schools have, in the past, taken so many liberties away from parents and I think they are trying hard to get it back to the some of the way it was, but the damage is done. I mean, I believe there is a difference between constructive discipline with a child and beating them!

When my children were in elementary school, it was when the whole thing about 'you're parents don't have the right to beat you'....yada yada yada....came into play.

My daughter wanted to do something one day and when we told her No, she said, "Well, I'm gonna tell my teacher you beat me and she will send the police to get you." (the message the children heard from whatever the well-meaning teachers were saying.) We told her that if she thought she had it so bad, to pack a suitcase and when the police came, we would let them take her to a "better home". She never packed her bag, never talked to the teacher, and didn't get to do what she wanted!

It was a matter of letting her know who was boss...which does not happen much anymore and is one of the biggest problems. Kids really do rule the world now!

I say call the parents. Then once you've called, you've washed your hands of the burden. You can't live in a neighborhood where you feel threatened, so you need to let them know you aren't going to take it. Even little tyrants can be stood up to. If after talking to the parents, these things continue, I would contact the local police and at least start a record, maybe even let them know now that you've contacted the parents but felt they should be aware also. I would get a notebook and document everything.

Kathy

Yes, it's a very good idea and I plan on using it. And again, at the risk of sounding very old, don't people take their children to church? They don't teach them not to play with matches? and I know for a fact that the parents in our neighborhood don't supervise them whilst they're outside. I knew where Jenn was constantly. I certainly wasn't the perfect or "model" parent but I knew where she was and what she was doing. These weren't teenagers..these were boys between the ages of about 6 - 10 at the most.

I'm going to pray about this very hard because it's driving me absolutely crazy. And I need to calm down about it......but my husband and I have worked very hard to have what little we have....(there I go again) :) Badseed has some very valid points.

Sledder, I understand exactly what you're going thru. The kids in my neighborhood (many who are related) run like something wild. The parents don't care what they're doing as long as they aren't bothering them. I too had three that everytime they got matches or lighter, they came to my buildings to play with them. The tractor shed where they mainly went had gas stored in it. I called the parents and they told me I just couldn't remember what it was like to be a kid."They were just being kids" We can't leave our house without the hoodlums coming in our yard and breaking our little lawn statues. You didn't see them do it so what can you do?? Going to the parents only make the kids rebel against you because they know the parents could care less. They broke holes in my wooden privacy fence and of course none of them knew anything about it. I went out one day and one had his head stuck thru the hole they had torn in the fence and the other was setting on top of the fence throwing rocks at my dogs. Thank goodness they have thrown enough rocks across the fence at my dogs that my dogs hate them and will not allow the kids in the yard but that's another problem if one of my dogs bites one of them in my yard. It's a no win problem.

I would still contact the parents. I might also put a sign in your yard, discreetly, saying something along the lines of "If you damage my yard, expect to see the police in yours". LOL Maybe you should even go out and tell the kids what could have happened with those dry leaves, hours later, whent they were still smoldering and everyone was in bed!! I would be careful about calling Childrens Services though, unless you were very sure they did stuff like this often and it was not just a curious mind, boys will be boys kind of thing. What if the police went to their house on the day the mom was sick, the house was a wreck, the dog pooped on the floor and dishes were piled in the sink?? Hey, I have kids and pets and grosser things happen! LOL If the kids are being raised in horrible conditions or not being watched at all, yeah the authorities should know. But if the kids are normally good and did this one bad thing, I would feel awful if they were taken from their parents. Maybe they only have one parent that works two jobs and they just need some attention. I would sure try to talk to the kids first as a friendly person and not a bossy adult. Maybe they would do jobs for you or something to use up some otherwise idle time?? I don't really let my kids play with other people on our street but if they do, it is close to my house and when I am there. Honestly, two of the boys, neighbors at two different houses, like violent games and weapons and such-maybe just a boy thing? Well, I tell my girls and those boys they can play together, but no weapons, no meaness and no fighting. They do okay, but I WATCH the whole time. Last week another boy came up to play. I overheard a little comment about a gun and what he would do with it. I turned to him and told him it was a very ugly thing to say and that I sure hoped he did not have a gun. While he protested, I kept talking, let him know guns kill and accidents happen all the time and even making a comment about having a gun, he could find his little butt kicked out of school, in jail and more. He vehemently protested having a gun, said he was kidding, he did have a bb gun and that he would never ever hurt anybody. Generally he is a nice kid, but I hope I gave him something to think about, even if it is only running his mouth and the trouble that could cause.

Since I raised a girl, raising boys is rather foreign to me. But a pet is a pet. And a fire is a fire. And yes, boys will be boys. But it shouldn't make any difference. If they would've been in the woods playing with the lighter I certainly wouldn't have known about it. But they were 10 feet from my home! The tree they were lighting up is about 10 feet tall. Considering the closeness and height it wouldn't have taken long for my home to be gone. Am I going to sit back and let that happen? Of course not! Well, I'll be "that neighbor". You know, the one everyone talks about. Gosh, wanna buy a house?

I think kids have always been into stuff they shouldn't be, either out of ignorance or out of sheer determination -- the difference is, parents have lost their sense of responsibility and shame. I wish more parents parented like you guys do, and didn't just provide food and shelter. I wish you the very best, Sledder!

I am not saying what they did was right. I'm not saying 'boys will boys' is okay. I am just saying it might be better to talk to them and the parents and let them know how firmly you feel rather than race to the authorities. If you think the kids and parents don't care or they use up a second chance, then by all means, call the police. I think calling in Children's Services might be a little drastic. The boys on my street were burning leaves with a magnifying glass and I did let them know how dangerous it was. I didn't go straight to the police though. I have not seen them do it since.

Hubby and I are definitely going to have a chat with the one parent that "I think" is the most responsible.

Seed, hon, you're okay. You have some extremely valid points which was exactly what I was looking for. I needed to hear from a parent raising children now. Thank you!!

And I thank all of you for your ideas, suggestions, and for listening to me vent.

"T" :)

Hey, No problem. What are friends for if not to vent a little and take some of the weight off your shoulders.
Hugs
Jan

Taking pictures is a good idea. You may still
want to make a report with the police,so if
anything else happens they will already have
one report. You could go to your police station
and do it. The kids or parents do not have to know.

I would talk to the boys parents and even the
parents that drink. Take a witness with you.
Not a relative,maybe another neighbor or
a friend. That will hold up in court better,if
it ever came to that. You'll have proof that
you tried to talk with them about it,

If they come back in your yard,that is trespassing
on private property and they can be arrested.
If things go that far.

Sometimes you have to stand up to them,even
children. Some children find doing stuff like
that a thrill and since they got your feathers
ruffled,they'll probably come back just to get
another reaction from you. I would bring things
in from your yard that are important,for the time
being.

Also,if you have a video camera? Or could borrow
one for awhile. You could set it up in a window
and let it run while you leave for a few minutes.
Thats if you see them out playing. You might catch
them doing something they should not be doing.
Then you'll have the proof you need. You might
go as far as telling the kids parents that you
have a camera set to record all outdoor activities.
And,that it records for the hours you're at work.

You could take a pc camera and hang it in a window
where the kids could see it. They probably won't
know if it's real or not. Hey,it worked where we
used to live. We had one hanging from a curtian
rod with fishing line,in our living room window,
facing the front door. If anyone came to our
front door they thought they were being taped.
There were a few adults fooled by it. Thats when
hubby and i were having trouble with one of his
crazy co-workers. They would see that little
camera and walk away.lol. Put it where the little
lens just barely shows but enough so they can see it.
You see these little cameras for sale all the time
on pop up ads that do the real recording,so make
that look like it's doing the same thing. I think
it would be a good idea to tell the parents you
are recording outside activity. It will make them
think twice because they'll get in trouble for
anything the kids do too!

The first thing that comes to mind is my Grandmothers advice to me about raising children. She told me that the first lesson and the most difficult one to follow through on is to remember that as an adult "Action is needed but over reaction is counter productive" Another of her favorite sayings was "start with the simplist solution and work your way up"

You don't say that these boys have been causing a lot of problems in the past. So the simplest approach is to watch for them and take a minute to talk to them about their behavior first in a non threatening way. Then if the problem is not solved, explain that you will take further action as needed. If they still do not get the message, go to their parents, again without threats, repeating the process. This is usually as far as you will need to go, but if these steps do not work, then you will need to go to the next level and contact athorities.

I will add that if you can find an opportunity to speak to the boys individually rather than as a group, they will be more inclined to hear you out than if they are in a group and acting macho for the benifit of their friends.

Zany, your points are very valid. Unfortunately I have seen 2 of them doing wrong before but they never were things that would harm either myself or my belongings. I could tell you stories but I'd really rather not "go there". Like I had mentioned I didn't know 2 of them at all so I won't do anything regarding them. I've never seen them before. But I did know the other 2. One of which I know pretty well along with the entire family. That's the parent we plan on chatting with. It will be a perfect situation if my hubby gets to chat with the parent before me but that may not happen. I plan to play it by ear and see what happens.

Thank you for your input.

((( Sledder ))) I am praying for you and your whole neighborhood.

Thanks hon...I appreciate it. We never saw the one parent unfortunately. That's okay...We'll have our opportunity for sure. Hubby and I discussed it more and have decided to ask the one parent to bring up the subject of not playing with matches/lighters/fire at her dinner table. Hopefully that discussion will let that particular boy know that Mom knows and he best pay attention.

I didn't want the whole situation to become a battle.

I feel for you - I hope you have sucess with your visit. I had a son that nearly drove us nuts at a young age. Once we went away for a few days and left him with the sitter staying at our house, I think he was 5. When we returned from our trip, we saw that a fire had started beside our house in the pine straw, it had burned about 3 feet up the siding of the house - we were shocked to say the least. The sitter was inside, and my boy was scared enough to go in and tell her there was a fire, and she put it out!
Well, He told us and her that a new boy in the neighborhood did it - he described him right down to the color of his tenners! We scoured the neighborhood looking for this boy, found one that "looked like" the one he described - my dh went to visit the parents - they were good parents and proceded to punish their son - he had been in trouble for playing with matches before. Well, somehow this story changed a little from time to time and after 3 days, the truth came out - Sure enough - our son finally admitted that he did it!! Scary! I won't go into what happened next, but my dh went berzerk.

Good luck with this rather sticky situation. Hopefully the boys will get the message and not retaliate. I agree..it does seem to be harder to raise kids now as they can make unfounded threats and be heard and believed.

I think it's also much harder to be a kid these days. Not that this is an excuse for bad behavior. It's absolutely not. But I think that kids have so much pressure on them these days. Much more than when I was a kid. And that wasn't THAT long ago. Along with peer pressure, they are bombarded with violence, sex and a total lack of respect and responsibility everywhere they look...tv, movies, video games...even the commercials on tv and ads in magazines these days are horrid. Divorce, alcohol and drug abuse at an all-time high. Kids whose parents work more than they are home. Family has become a luxury. The family dinner has been reduced to frozen foods heated in a microwave and eaten in front of "Seinfeld" reruns. Kids are spoiled and allowed to be materialistic. Just look at Christmas. Society seems to be more interested in buying the newest, most expensive, most impresssive gifts, than remembering what Christmas is REALLY all about.
I don't believe in spanking. We have three kids and we've never spanked them--not once. But they certainly know what we expect of them. They know what goes and what doesn't. And they are good, loving kids who have made us so proud. I think kids who get into trouble have trouble in their lives. The tricky part is knowing when and how to help. These kids sound like very troubled, unsupervised kids...I don't have any solutions, but I sure wonder where their parents are.