What are the differences between DG and GardenWeb?

Well, for me here was the difference: when I originally tried to sign up on GW it didn't connect and when I politely inquired to GW, I received a scarcastic message back--something about "the GW webmaster not having time to deal with a server run by a megalomaniac (MSN.com)" ???! What was that about?!

In contrast, when I signed up on DG I was warmly welcomed and given tips on how to navigate and post. Lot's of sincere interest. Lot's of enthusiasm.

The GW forums may seem to have more facts and content, but Dave's Garden is truly a community of learners helping each other. I love it. Dave and the staff are great. The members are wonderful. Thanks again. t.

You already have a ton of responses, but I am going to use this as my one and only opportunity to vent. I was a regular poster at GW for years and never did anything out of line, had a lot of internet friends there etc. One day I tried posting and found myself redirected to disney.com.

I had no idea what the trouble was so I spent 2 days troubleshooting on my end thinking I had some trojan software/web hijacker or something along those lines.

Finally I emailed Spike asking if he had any idea what the problem was since it was only posting at GW that did this.

He emailed me back with a one line insult that accused me of an improper post.

I emailed him back being very concillatory, but pointing out I didn't see how my post was offensive at all. I apologized anyway and vowed to avoid similar posts. I also mentioned that a simple email explaining my alledged infraction would have sufficed and that the redirect to disney was unnecessary and caused me a bit of grief. His response was that I was stupid to think he cared about the grief I had "brought upon myself". He then told me to go find a site more suited to my mentality.

So, is Dave nicer than Spike?

Well, in fairness I don't know anything about Dave as I just registered to see and post to the forums a couple days ago, but I don't see how he couldn't be.

The way Spike treated me was beyond rude and to this day I don't understand what it was that I did to set him off. Seeing others post here about his behavior is comforting to me as I can see I am not the only one to be the target of his venom.

Is Dave nicer than 'the Spikes'?

As you can see, DaveA, he is nice enough to put his personal answer out there for all to see!

DaveA...I'm sorry that happened to you too. Doesn't it feel great to tell someone how awful Spike is!?! He was always rude when he replied to any email I sent him. I've seen many posts over there since I left about how people were getting aggrevated that others were being banned etc etc. He'll dig his own hole. My first day here I saw a post by a "Dave" and wondered if it was THE Dave. When I saw the profile and the picture of him on a trike, I knew he was NOT like Spikei. Welcome aboard!

--- DaveA...I'm sorry that happened to you too. Doesn't it feel great to tell someone how awful Spike is!?! ---

It sure does. During my stay at GW I didn't realize how many people Spike had abused as I had no contact with him. After getting the boot I felt really wronged and have harbored a certain amount of anger toward him. At the same time I didn't know if I had somehow done something wrong or what the root cause of the banning was. I generally regard people as being decent and reasonable so when someone is neither decent nor reasonable I have a tendency to wonder if I did something wrong.

Coming here and reading this thread has been like therapy for me as it let's me know there was nothing wrong with me and I am not alone.

Now I am no longer angry at all, I just feel bad for Spike. For a person to have mistreated so many over a long period of time reveals a personality that is not healthy.

Wow! I feel so grateful that as a newbie gardener I found DG before GW. I felt so welcomed and encouraged by Carla. Not only am I a newbie gardener, but I'm fairly limited in my computer skills. I have a lot to learn if I'm going to make good use of this site. I just want to give my thanks and appreciation to Dave and everyone else in advance for all of the help I'll be asking for. Hopefully you'll bear with me if I make any faux pas.

Hello??????

Impossible to compare. DG is friendly, generous, great information...love it.

Dave's much nicer than Spike.

I have been a member of both for several years, I use GW for trading mainly, but feel like I reside at DG. I don't post alot, so haven't gotten into trouble there, but had picked up on some things. After what I've been reading here, I don't think I will be renewing my membership at GW for obvious reasons. As a Master Gardener I frequently speak with people on the joys of online gardening. I ususally point out casual differences in the sites, but ALWAYS tell them DG has a "family" feeling! It's good to be a small part of this group! Legit

The only bad thing I have seen lately is that some people from Gardenweb who were trouble makers are now over here.
Hope they can contain all the cattiness that they displayed over there and leave Dave's gardeners to freely express themselves. They know who they are and if they are true to form, so will everyone else before long.

A friendly reminder

This thread exists because it serves several legitimate purposes:

1) It allows users to compare/contrast two major gardening websites. (Not a scientific, statistically-valid poll, but anecdotal information about the pros and cons of each site.)

2) It allows users to gain an insight into the philosophy of Dave's Garden and the administrators here.

3) It allows some users a cathartic release to vent a little, and to discover that their experience elsewhere wasn't unique or necessarily their fault.

Those are good reason to allow this thread to stay up; however, I've "scrubbed" some of the more recent posts. I hope everyone whose posts were edited or deleted will understand that it was done in order to allow the thread to remain intact and on-topic.

Terry

I think Terry's 'friendly reminder' post gives yet another difference between GW and Dave's.

If you can read this post
1) You aren't in Disney
(so you weren't banned for posting on the thread)
and
2) The thread wasn't deleted.

There is also of course the fact that Terry took time out of a busy schedule to read the thread, clean it up AND comment personally.

The amazing thing to me is this personal touch extends to all facets here and at PF.
You got a question for the administration?
It gets answered, (sometimes so promptly it's scary).
You Thank them they say You're Welcome.

Now what kind of way is that to run a business? lol

Ric

Thanks for the reminder and the work on this thread, Terry. The line between cathartic venting and violation of our own acceptable use policy (re. material that's offensive, hateful, vulgar, etc.) can get blurry sometimes. Especially when emotions are running high. Thanks again.

Shannon

Thank you Terry. One person's interpretation of something posted is always different than another's and it can be totally different from how it was meant to sound. I appreciate not being scolded or having my posts deleted because my sense of humor is different or misunderstood by someone. I could have unjustly ended up at Disney in another place! lol

I don't think I even remember my password over there. I stopped going over there after I discovered DG. It's not because I was treated rudely. I stayed in the New To Gardening forum, and the people in there seemed to be nice, and quite helpful. The reason I came over here is becuase I was doing a google search to learn about a certain plant, and I discovered the PlantFiles (PDB back then). After looking up several plants, I was told I had reached my limit. so I looked around the site, and became a member,,,, and the welcoming atmoshere has kept me.

Again, this is not to say anything bad about the other place, becuase I never experienced the bad. I just feel at home here.

Jennifer

I became a member today!

The first post I wanted was to post this. Last year, I was sent to disneyland. I was a member of the Hot Pepper Forum on GW. A friend had been Disneyed and we questioned Spite on this. I was summarily booted, no explaination. I joined some friends at the MSN Hot Pepper Forum and have been there since.

I have always noticed the fantastic content of Dave's Garden but never visited because it required subscription for involvement in what I wanted to be involved in.

Spite created an environment of fear. I am not bitter, this is just a cold, hard fact. I have little use for that kind of environment, so I left, and rarely return.

I look forward to good times and good lessons here.

Gnight ya'll,
Allen/Chance/Boat

I'm not sure if any of you have heard this yet or not, but Spike sold GardenWeb (the corporation) to iVillage.

He is still the "moderator" of the site, but you can now post links with "Dave's Garden" in the title and the message is not rejected with a threat saying that Dave's Garden has spammed GardenWeb and you will be banned if you continue to try and post the message.

Go to the GardenWeb main page and you will see the major re-design and how it has changed. There have been some posts (I think in the Hosta forum) that Spike has responded to and sort of explained what's happened.

It looks like GardenWeb will be a "kinder, gentler", place now.
Mike

A kinder and gentlier place with tons of spyware, pop-up ads and floaters.

There was no reason it shouldn't have been a kind and gentle place. That was the hype they spread when they took your money in the first place.
Maybe Ivillage can delete Spike's posts.LOL
He did what he did in the past and is still Spike, so what would be the reason to go over there....been there done that, and he can post all he wants now that he secretly sold the place behind everyone's back and now is accepted into the fold as one of his own. LOL

Windy,
No reason to get so upset. If you don't want to visit GW, then don't. I wasn't implying that anyone should go there in the first place. I just wanted to let people know that Spike no longer owns GW.

As far as "secretly selling the place behind everyone's back", Spike doesn't need anyone's permission to sell HIS web site. Remember, that all places on the web, for the most part, are there to make money - even Dave's Garden - it's how Dave makes his living. Lucky for us, it also provides a place for us to interact with other gardeners.

Spike is now an employee of iVillage and I would guess that the tone at GW will be somewhat different than it has been in the past....maybe. Only time will tell...
Mike


This message was edited Mar 20, 2005 10:48 AM

Well it's about time Chance! I've been a member since 08/03 but only yesterday became a subscriber.

I was the "Disneyed" member that caused the problems at The Hot Pepper Forum at GW. I had received a warning that I was manipulating threads which was not allowed according to Spite's rule book. How was I manipulating threads you might ask? When a really good or informative thread was going to drop off page ten I would "BUMP!" it up to page one by posting to it. Every long time forum member or moderator has seen the same question asked over and over and I was saving threads that would answer the most frequently asked like "Please help me with aphids!" or "Which is the hottest pepper?". Seemed like a good thing to me........

As I wrote, I received a warning in Aug. & got "Disneyed" in Nov, 2003.. I did not know that this was Spite's way of punishing members and thought something was wrong with my browser. When another member allowed me use of his profile & password (breaking another rule) so I could ask what was happening, he was promptly "Disneyed" with no warning. It spiraled out of control from there as many members questioned him about it and all were "Disneyed" without warning or given a reason and any thread that questioned his policy was pulled & that member was "Disneyed". Only one long time member received a brief note for the whole affair and it basically said I thought I could break the rules without punishment and that the GW would prosper without all the members he banished. Another long time member wrote me that he had gutted the Balcony Forum the same way because someone was "Disneyed" and the members that questioned him were given the same trip. Spite should be a travel agent for Disneyland or at least get a commission for all the people he sends there.

All this could have been prevented if Spite had asked me what I was doing or took the time to find out. You know why? There's an archive URL!

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/pepper/

Did I know about it then? No.. But I do now & can access it without being a member. Ironic?

Yours in heat,
NorthEast_ChileMan
Oh, and Dave, you have my permission to edit/delete this post so as not to cause you or your site problems. Everything I wrote is the truth and like Allen find the environment of fear Spite created there as intolerable and wanted others to know about it. I just changed the name to protect the innocent (;>)))....

This horse has probably been beated to death but the main differences in my opinion are:

1. open to public vs subscription
it attracts different people with different views. gardenweb is bound to have a boarder range of people visiting. Personally, my trading experiences with DG's members has been A LOT better than gardenweb traders. Latter has often left me without completing their part of the trade.

2. personality.
I don't know Dave, but I have certainly gotton to know Spike. I am sick of tired being accused of launching malicious software attacks against their services (I can hardly turn my computer on.. how am I supposed to lauch anything technical at their site ??). My IP address gets banned from time to time, and when you request Spike to make updates (hortiplex etc) I get nasty emails back complaining about my posts from 48 months ago whereas on DG the stuff gets updated and they are actually very nice about it, too.

3. much better interaction by small business with DG than Gardenweb.
Big business would do very well at Gardenweb if they can/will afford their advertisement prices. Small business persons have no earthly chance, but can get very good entry to a great community at DG.


I think the main summary should be:
- the personality issue the determining factor. The DG approach is so much more friendly and nice. The gardenweb attitude is one of mistrust, extreme moodswings, and generally an extremely difficult place to be if you are "singled out" due to whatever system issues they happen to have that week.

Take one example: gardenweb used (USED) to have the best hosta forum by far. Today most of the people there have moved on to another forum and I believe from the posts that the main reason was similar issues as I have stated above (banned IP addresses, eradic moods, etc)

I wonder how many people have never found either site. They are sure missing out on a lot of information, aren't they.
The only way I found out about GW years ago was that a friend on a list serv gave me the URL. Otherwise, I may still have been in the dark about it. Then I noticed that some people were disappearing and found them at Daves, living happily ever after. LOL
To be fair, Gardenweb was fun while it lasted, but people grow up and then they need something of substance.

kdjoergensen,
If you are being accused of launching malicious attacks against GardenWeb, you might have a virus or some other "nasty" running on your computer without your knowledge. You could very-well be attacking GW and not even know it.

I would purchase some spy ware software and scan your computer to see if you have any programs loaded on your computer that shouldn't be running on to your computer.
Good luck,
Mike

The main thing I dislike about Garden Web are all of the *&%#!%?^&` blinkin' ads. It gives me a headache just trying to concentrate! I HATE that stuff! I started keeping pieces of paper taped to the main pop up places on GW, and then I came here a couple of times, and haven't been back there since.

In regards to ads. Here are a couple pertinent quotes from iVillages fourth quarter earnings results conference call. Both of these quotes are from Doug McCormick, Chairman and CEO of iVillage:

I was sent to Disney and still don't know why.
I think it could have been because I tried to stop a verbal war, that had flared up. This was because Spike asked me to report if I saw it happening. Beats me. I am happy here where I can talk freely. l was even allowed to disagree with Terry and she didn't kick me off. I was allowed an opinion. I was allowed my 1st amendent rights of free speech. I love Dave and Terry for their good work. I will continue to help all of those that I can. They have been there for me. Crasulady2

I remember when "Yahoo Groups" was user friendly. They sold out, and now many, many people have left. I forsee the same thing happening with GW. I had good trades there and no negative experiences with that, but aside from what depends on other individuals, I find no redeeming value at the place.

Chance

I was sad to see they got their name mentioned in Reader's Digest this month.

What did the Reader's Digest say? Linda

It was just something about ways to save money and one of the ideas was plant trading, then they gave the website.

The Garden Web is one of the biggest and well-known gardening websites.
I've seen it mentioned in quite a few magazines and on Martha Stewarts website.
Nothing new.

Just found this thread after subscribing to DG for a few months. Don't know if there's anything new to say on the topic. I found the 'rules' on GW wholly arbitrary. Most astonishingly, early one a.m. I was reading posts on GW and found a post from Spikie himself, since deleted, in which he lashed out at the membership, saying that he had sold GW because he was tired of the "liars, spammers, and cheats" he had to deal with. I have yet to see Dave's Garden administrators lash out at their membership like that. In general, DG policies are much more transparent and predictable. The atmosphere here is devoid of the outright hatred that ruins so many otherwise interesting threads on GW. And the info that GW is now being widely publicized as a good place to save money in plant trades goes a long way toward explaining why several of us were ripped off this spring in a plant trade with a new GW poster (who has since vanished). The traders' feedback system here on DG is effective. Spikie has refused all requests from members to install something similar on GW.

I will only say that what they say about the other web being much more "closed" to newcomers is true...they want what you got but don't want your opinions or you is true.; Just my opinion and I realize everyone's got one...people here are much more "inclusive" and not exclusive.

Two words:
Dignity and Respect.

These are two themes that are consistent through out DG. Any website, company, organization can install the best whizzily, super , whatchamacallit doodad - and if the place lacks dignity and respect, then it is place one only visits, but few stays.

Everyone here has treated me with those two words, and it makes me feel good. So, I'm glad I don't know what being sent to Disney means, and I'll bet I never find out.

Randy

I made the switch, I found it very hard to fit in over there it's strange. I've been here for less than a week and had many people welcome me to DG. Very nice people here and actually I haven't been back to GW since I joined here. This place is very nice and puts a big smile on my face. In the end that's what counts!!!
shelly

I occassionally go back from time to time (like once a season) to visit some friends that aren't over here, but I tell you it is getting harder for me to go there to say Hi. The pop-ups and advertising all over the place over there and now there's this text, hyperlink thingy for certain words. You can tell because they are underlined and in a different color and when you roll your cursor over them, a pop-up window with an ad to a sponsor comes up.
I can't take it for long before I have to get out of there. I wish there was some kind of complimentary trial Dave's Garden Referral program. I want to recruit all my friends here, so I don't have to go back!

Could u interest them in a 2 month trial for $5.00?

Can you do that? I'll have to look into it.