Ads for Dave's Garden?

I was thinking about the post that I made for the sale at Park's and Wayside Gardens and thinking about how many folks got plants at some very good prices, and the fact that the word getting out was beneficial for a lot of members.

Then I started thinking that it might be beneficial for members of Dave's Garden to have a place here where sales such as occurred at Wayside and Park's could be advertised, or mail order companies with outstanding records regularly advertise.

If you did this, you could charge for advertising, thus bringing in another revenue stream. I fear that as more and more folks join Dave's Garden, the cost in time and dollars will begin to be too much for you.

You could also decide which companies to allow advertising for, thus ensuring that folks who come to Dave's Garden would have a high probability of getting a good value. Basically, create an advertising environment that folks will trust and therefore actively seek out. Advertising can be a very good thing.......

Anyways, just a suggestion.

Good thread.

First let me set aside your concern about the cost of maintaining Dave's Garden as the membership grows. As the membership grows, so does the percentage of subscribers. We are now getting an average of about 8 new subscribers each day. So, the more growth we have, the more revenue we naturally get from subscriptions. So I say let's grow to monstrous proportions. :)

Actually, because of DG's growth, I have been able to spend much more time developing it in recent months. This is something I wasn't able to do even 6 months ago.

But regarding the advertising, yes. I've thought about it quite a bit in the past, but have never gone so far as to attempt to plan an implementation. My first priority would be to make it a worthwhile experience for both the advertiser and the DG member. This means NO BANNERS and stuff like that.

My vision of advertising would be more like what you described above, where companies can submit to my server a list of products that they have, along with their prices. Then, when someone is browsing (for example) in the Plants Database, if a company lists a plant for sale that happens to be the same plant that the user is looking at, then a little box will appear saying something like "DG members can buy this plant for $x.00 at ABC Corp." with a link to the item in their store.

I have more than 1 company who has bugged me for this kind of thing, and I want to do it. It's a matter of really sitting down, spending some time talking to Terry, and figuring out how we can do it to make it truly worthwhile (for all parties involved).

There ya go. :)

Dave

I'm glad to hear you have given some thought to the matter. It would really be nice to have a one-touch, "no brainer" shopping place for plants that one could be assured were healthy and a good value.

I keep remembering several comments in the GardenWatchdog about the tomatoes advertised in Parade where they state that they couldn't believe that Parade would accept their sleasy advertising.

Build a place where one can be assured of advertisements with integrity and, believe me, folks will come.

Good answer, Dave! Your response calms my fears.

I've seen a lot of good web-places get gobbled up by the greed monster. I'm thrilled to see that DG is not going to head down that road.

I'd love to see ya'll getting rich off this place, you certainly deserve it. I don't want to see this place become a commercial website. There are enough of those on the net!
I love your idea of linking from the PDB to places where the plants in question can be purchased, especially if there are member only deals to be had and DG approved vendors!
I also like the idea of a forum just for nursery sale announcements. There could be a short description of the event, a link to the sale, and a link to that company's Watchdog page. This way we can easily check out their reputation before we buy, and report our experiences after.
I think companies should compete for DG member's business. We are worth it.

Cheri'

Amen!

Please could this advertising be in a special place rather than in the main PDB?
This site is one of the few refuges from popups etc. I'm all for having the links to sellers sites - but when we look and ask for it, not an automatic intrusion

Even a spot to click on each PDB page would be fine - just not unsolicited

That's my view anyway...

No need to have any concerns. This stuff is about the last thing on my mind right now. :)

dave

OK :-)

there has been so many changes and additions here since i joined in feb, 2001. dave you and trish and terry have done a wonderful job in giving us all so much here to work with. i think this latest idea is a great one. i would definitely use the information. thanks for all you have done.

My only real concern over having advertising, done in a non intrusive manner, would be that with accepting advertising fees will come pressure from advertisers to clean up any negative remarks from the watchdog that we might make. That could render the watchdog useless.

I am watching with interest, knowing ya'll will make good decisions.

Zany, don't worry about that. Terry and I have extremely noses when it comes to that. We do get pressure from companies all the time about the negative comments, and Terry (bless her heart) stands her ground firmly each and every time. Nothing will change that, as we understand that, as you said, a soft nose toward companies in the watchdog would mean the end of the same.

Dave

Dave, I know that you have all been standing firm on it and that is why it is such a powerful tool. And it is not that I question your character in such a matter. But it will be a big (huge) can of worms to deal with!

I don't think anyone has EVER accused me of having a soft nose. Hard-nosed? Why - yes I DO believe I have heard some people mutter that term in my presence ;o) Seriously, we do get pressured to remove negative comments or entire listings when companies feel a comment is bad for their reputation.

While I think there is a need for people to be able to find and compare the companies that sell a particular species or cultivar they're seeking, we would have to approach the whole issue vey carefully to avoid compromising the impartiality of the GWD.

Copperbaron I know I sure took advantage of your post of those sales. How about in the mean time while Dave tries to figure out the advertising part of all of this if we just had a forum where we could post links to good sales we find after checking the watch dog of course to make sure they are good companies to deal with. That way they don't get lost in the other threads and we can all take advantage of the sales. Dave and Terry hard-nosed (only about this site).

You wouldn't attempt to sell advertising in the GWD section at all, would you?

In my mind, although it's all one "web-place", it's three different web sites. I love Dave's idea of advertising particular products in the PDB, which is one website. I don't see that what goes in the PDB has anything to do with what goes in the Watchdog, which is another web site.

I think that it would be a privilege for a company to be able to promote their products in the PDB. In other words, the onus should be on them to convince Dave to allow them to give him money ... to advertise on the PDB ... not the other way around ... LOL! ;-) Dave has suggested that he doesn't need the advertising to run DG, so it can all be on his terms.

Same thing goes with the forums. If a company wants to pay Dave to announce their sale in the forums, great! That's got nothing to do with the GWD. Except that it's a good opportunity for that company to garner some positive comments to off set any negatives that might have accumulated ...

That's my spin on it.

BTW, hard noses are always in style ... :)

Cheri'

..."I think that it would be a privilege for a company to be able to promote their products in the PDB. In other words, the onus should be on them to convince Dave to allow them to give him money ... to advertise on the PDB ... not the other way around "

I love that thought, Sundry! Quite good!

Onus= "burden of proof", etc! (Been watching this thread! Great thinking goin' on here!)

I like things the way they are.

My thoughts: Keep the PDB as it is, a database of plants and growing information. Keep GWD as it is: "consumer reports" of the gardening world. You don't expect to see advertising in the encyclopedia and having advertisements in consumer reports could look like a conflict of interest. Note - I don't question Dave or Terry's integrity and right now the lines are very clean.

I suspect the sheer amount of maintenance, sometimes a business has something, sometimes they don't could make some high maintenance when trying to cross-reference a plant to a supplier - especially, based on time of year - some catalogs rotate, so when something is available say in "May", it might not be in "November".

I do like the idea of people posting for sales - many of us are scavengers at heart. Maybe that's another fourm possibility for sales and "stuff", and let it exist for that sole purpose and let the encyclopedia and consumer reports continue to be as they were originally intended.

I've been lurking on this thread and there's lots of good ideas out there.As I'm not very computer savvy,the logistics are beyond me,but here's an idea about companies and their sales.

What about a clickable link on the right hand side.There could be a seperate section just for sales and such.The companies could enter in to an agreement to run a special for x number of days or weeks,and the information could be accessed from all 3 parts of the network.When the special promotion was over,the ad could simply be deleted.

Sometimes I don't know that I want something until it actually jumps up and shouts my name.That way,you wouldn't have to be looking at the actual cultivar in the PDB to know that someone was running a sale.Or,they could be running a sale on compost bins or garden gloves....where would that go?

Companies who are complaining about their GWD ratings might be allowed to offer DG members something really nice to get back in our good graces.Just think of the publicity they would get if they did a good job and gave good service.On the other hand,there might have to be some kind of disclaimer alerting the customers to the situation.

With the membership growing like it is,we have one of the most desireable spots on the web for companies to promote their goods.And as sundry pointed out,Dave does not need this revenue to keep DG running.Sounds like to me,he's holding all the cards and can make any rules he wants to for these companies to abide by.

I've been here since almost the beginning,and as with everything else that has been done on this site,I'm sure whatever decision that is made,will have the best interest of everyone considered.This is a big step,if Dave decides to do this,and I can be certain you won't see it happen next week.Dave is much too thorough and careful to jump in that quickly.

I like the idea of special sales or promotions,and I think that would serve the membership best.Just a generic ad for XYZ company wouldn't do us much good.We can browse through the GWD and have access to their sites.I think they need to make the effort to give us something extra if they want to advertize.

I echo sbarr's thoughts....keep the ads/sales out of the PDB & GWD. Don't like pop-ups or banners either. I'm also a member of a an RC model site very similar to DG except it DOES have advertisers, banners, etc. One feature I do like on that site is they have a "vendors" forum. I think what sbarr was suggesting was something similar so that the vendors (advertisers) could list there and we the paying subscribers could decide to frequent it or not. What I love about this site is the freedom of choice I have here. Would hate to lose that to marketing.

I would look forward to whatever additions you might make re advertising of products (say for propagation, greenhouses,etc), seeds, plants. I am sure that whenever you do decide to do it; it will meet the same high standard of all other parts of the site(s). A plea from those of us north of your border - some indication of whether or not any company ships outside of continental US would be wonderful. I often find a new site with great products and get to checkout only to receive a notice that essentially they can't get here from there.

Ya know, I'm fine with it like it is, too. My thoughts were to improve the place and "the staff's" situation. Dave may not need the money to maintain DG, but surely it would come in handy.
I would Abhor banners and pop-ups, and I don't think anyone (least of all Dave) wants that. I believe we were discussing text links in appropriate places.

So, I am confidant that whatever Dave eventually does (even if it is nothing) will be best for DG.

Cheri'

Very interesting thread. I'm sure Dave and his helpers will find the right way for all of us. Donna

Anything that is touched by money unfortunately becomes dirty sooner or later. Just look at our political system and a large segment of the business world. Please keep DG the clean and wholesome place it is.

Ulrich, I have to agree with your summary, money corrupts.

When I was dragged in kicking and screaming, my friend said she figured it wouldn't be long before Dave would have to charge us. Shortly thereafter, it happened. This upset her, but didn't bother me as I knew it was usually necessary to have a good thing financed in some measure. Then she said it wouldn't be long before DG would sell advertising. I said I would wait and see, and I did. But if it's handled right, it actually could be a good thing, not necessarily negative. Yes, it's almost impossible, but if the presence of ads sullies the garden, people will begin to drift away. I come here for pleasure, and it's up to me to decide when it's no longer provided. I really hope the rule of money and corruption can be broken here.

Deafening silence.
Where did everybody go?
Decisions, decisions!

The message I am receiving from Dave is, this is not something that is going to be happening immediately. The changes made here from conception have been very well thought out, and I trust they will be in the future. It does take money to buy food, clothing, housing, and such. I don't see how a link to these adds will interfere with our day to day enjoyment. If the thread is about Hostas, what is wrong with having the CHOICE to sites selling Hostas. If one doesn't want this, don't link up.

Don't forget, Dave is an avid gardener as we are. This site is here because he wanted to make it very user friendly. How many times has someone asked for a change or addition. Usually it has been done within a day or so. If it hasn't been changed, a full explaination is always given.

Yes, I wrote above that: "No need to have any concerns. This stuff is about the last thing on my mind right now. :)"

It truly is the last thing on my mind. I won't even be thinking about this subject again for AT LEAST a month, hopefully longer (other projects in the works...).

Correction to someone above: Money doesn't corrupt; the LOVE of money [is the root of all evil]. Money is very simply a promissory note for goods/services exchange. It is inheritantly impossible to be neither evil nor good.

One last thing: The Plants Database won't be having ads within. I have been convinced by a member (in private email) that allowing companies to profit via the PDB is a bad idea. There are alternative ideas that this member presented, and I liked them. Nevertheless, the complication factor of them is high, so don't look for any cool new commercial features from me for -quite- some time. ;)

Dave

For those following this thread, Park's is having a summer sale on gardening accessories and I have posted the URL in the Garden Talk forum. Again, I think it would be nice if not only the folks taking advantage of the sale profit by it, but also Dave for providing the website whereby others can profit from sales like these.

I have found this thread to be very interesting since I have had lots of the same thoughts.

I would like to see a forum just for sales & closeouts. UNUSUALLY good prices. ONLY for paying members and by paying members. I like to share the sales with my co=DGers. But sometimes it is hard to decide where to post.

Dirt cheap is sorta vague and not everyone goes there.

Each of us has certain places where we visit FIRST THING and by having a Sale forum, those who are intrested i this could go there directly and not miss out. They seems to sell out very quickly when we DG'ers get the news and go to the site.

There should however, be a warning tht this is only notice of the sale, with no guarantee that the buyer will be shopping a superior site witht he best prices. caveat emptor- buyer beware!

If there is a separate ad place, I probably would not visit it- that is just me speaking.

PLEASE no pop-ups or banners etc.

It would also be nice if we had a forum called Sources ...
where we could ask where to locate something and get answers.

It is impossible in GW or PDB to list where every cultivar is available. As an example, I have been wanting hens and chicks, couldnt get much help on GW. Then I realized that a euphemisn for sempervivum/hen n chicks is "alpines". And I would never have thought to look there.

Just my two cents worth (I try to squeeze everything out of a penny I can ;-)).

"Dirt Cheap" is the perfect place to post these sales;
Lavanda, if you know people will be posting sales there you will make a point to go there if you are interested.

That is how I came accross the inexpensive green houses at Big Lots.

No changes need to be made; just everyone USE the forum we have. I know I'll be looking there for sales. Thanks everyone who have posted these sales in the past.

well at any rate, be in a banner, or a small window, or a link etc etc
I'd be more than willing to pay to advertise here.

We could always have a small box on the right hand side of a thread/forum relating to the plantsmen in question....
for example I specialize in Herbs, Pelargoniums, Ferns/tropicals.
As such I would appear in:
Herbs Forum
Geraniacea Forum
Shady Places
Tropicals Forum

call it $10 a forum to advertise... you would be getting $40 a month from me, I'd be getting exposure in the exact targeted area (as opposed to mass spamming which I detest).

Drew

All I know Dave is that you took one site on the web to EXACTLY where it needed to be when you started DGs! It's unlike anything there is out there and I don't envy the decisions you'll need to make as it continues to grow and show the world what the internet was truly meant to be! CEOs could learn so much from this if minds were more open...

You skipped straight to the free sharing of information while everyone else was trying to sell, sell, sell! My hat goes off to you and Trish as you already know ☺

Morph, I second that wholeheartedly. For the people in the world who always look for a profit in dollars, this is a shining example of what they're missing. I personally think it will generate dollars for Dave in some indirect way, and I feel that it has already given him endless satisfaction and a sense of pride to know he has brought together so many elements, so diverse, from so many far-flung places.

After one generates dollars, there remains the task of how to best transform them into sense. A huge part of the answer is right here.

Morph and Aimee; one word:

Eloquent!

As with many hobbies, DG has grown into a business, and as such it must be profitable in order to survive. As the membership grows the responsibilities to that membership increases as well. Paid memberships may meet the costs of the site and servers but for the site to continue to grow it becomes more necessary that it also provide the owner with profit so that he can dedicate time and energy to it. I have no problem with Dave supporting his family with profits from his enterprise here. In fact I hope it will provide them not only a comfortable living but also help put their children through college. Advertising can make that happen. It is the next logical step in the scheme of things. It will require a lot of thought and wisdom on Dave's part to make it work in a way that will be an asset to all concerned. As with any large step it can be frought with land mines and I wish Dave the wisdom to make it through the changes ahead with grace and style and sucess.

Amen! Just as I expect to pay for a CD so I can enjoy music produced by my favorite artists, I should expect to pay for other talents which enrich the quality of my life. DG is certainly in that category. Those of us who were lucky enough to be here before subscription might have a tendency to think it should continue to be a public service, but we have asked for and received far more than the little site where we could keep track of our trades and meet with other people. Some places I patronize have lost quality as they grew, but DG has just gotten better and better. Without funding, this cannot happen, and it's not fair to expect Dave and his family, including Terry and others who tend the fires, to dedicate their best efforts with no material rewards.

Cabaret (1972): "Monnie mehks ze verlt go rraunt,
verlt go rraunt . . ."

Edited to correct spelling (~:

This message was edited Saturday, Aug 9th 2:22 AM

If you do decide to go with advertising, please have mercy on us..... please.....NO POP-UPS! I can deal with banner ads, jumping monkeys, things that flash, but the relentless pop-ups make me really disgusted.

Myfamily.com, which now owns just about every important genealogy site on the internet, has RUINED it's websites with pop-ups. I finally had to give in and download a pop-up killer to deal with all of them. Worldconnect, located on Rootsweb, gives me two to three pop-ups every time I go to a new page. It is not unusual to end a twenty to thirty minute session on Rootsweb and find that 70+ pop-ups have been killed in that time span. Can you say "overkill"?

I'm no marketing genius, but I wonder if that kind of bombardment has a negative effect on the vendors that advertise in this way?

Does on me! I absolutely refuse to buy from people who badger me. I agree about RootsWeb, and some of them won't go away when you click the X, you have to look at them throughout the session and can only kill them by going offline. I also boycott businesses whose tv ads shout at me in an obnoxious way, ans if it's local, I call them and tell them so, then follow up with a letter. You know, not once have I received an answer that indicated they gave a hoot.