Make Zones mandatory for new members?

I see so many posts from newer members wanting a plant ID, or suggestions, and they have no zone listed. It's so frustrating to have to ask them over and over what zone so we can help them. I've walked several through how to add their zone, but the repitition of that gets tedious

I can understand how location should be optional, as in privacy issues, but if the zone was mandatory, it sure would help us all.

What do you think?

I second the motion. If someone who has never been to Texas sees that I am in Texas and someone else is from Dallas, another from Corpus Christi, another from Marshall and still another from Laredo, they will never guess we can't always grow the same plants or care for them in the same way. I think there are other states like that for different reasons, like Washington state with the mountains and others I don't know about. Zones can make a critical difference in what we should send to someone or what we should tell them about hardiness.

Aimee what zone are you in?

Ha! :)

Seriously, the big question is: how to enforce that? I certainly don't want to require members to add their zone at signup time. So, the only thing to do is to get them to add it later.

I think at one time I had a message on the front page, encouraging folks to add their zone information (if it wasn't present) and once they did, the message finally disappeared from their front page.

I think adding that back in could help out quite a bit. I'll give it some thought.

Dave

From an international member point of view, zones are pretty much useless to us. The zone 9 is under my name just for show really.

Busted! I think I had a zone at one time, but I'm in a weird area straddling and even defying zones. Roughly, I am in zone 8, but because of the hill country just brushing up against my area and the gentle slope toward South Texas, it's not a dependable indicator. Added to that, I am on a ridge between two arms of a river, which seems to make even the other side of our small town different. When I cross the interstate, less than a mile away, I am actually in a different gardening situation.

So, should I add a zone, and is there a way to say "sorta"? I hadn't realized I no longer, or maybe never, had a zone. Sorry, blushing here!

Aimee, the zone simply indicates the average low temperature that you'd see each winter.

Down here in the Kerr Patch, we generally don't see below 15-20 degrees (F) so we're Zone 8b.

As far as I know, there is no international "zone" like the USDA Zones, so, since DG is based out of the US, it is what we adopted.

Dave

I'd like to see everyone with zone listed. I get so frustrated when I look at someones page or post and it's not there. my $.02

IMHO even the hometown should be mandatory. Where does privacy come into the picture? How do you track down "Blitzen" or "Flerg2" in Oshkosh?

Well, that would be easy even if the town wasn't listed, if one had the most rudimentary knowledge of searching. I think it's almost impossible to "hide" if someone really wants to find you.

Dave, I think I should be in your zone, but if I averaged the lows for the past ten years, I think I would come up with lower averages. I think I have just said zone 8, and then tried to use a bit of caution when planting. I do push the zone in some cases, with certain types of plants.

I don't care about hometown, but zone and state (or country or something if it's not in the US) region, something. Give me a clue! Hometown, truthfully, tells me nothing.

As Dave said, Zone is just (at this point) about average min. temps. Which is good to know, but when trying to answer questions it's better to know a bit more about the climate. I live in zone 9a, but a very wet zone 9a. Totally different landscape from a West Texas zone 9a. Totally different set of problems, and solutions.

When I say where I live, I always say South Louisiana, because it's soooo different from North Louisiana, and I don't just mean the temps.

My 2¢, discounted 50% end of season clearance.
Cheri'

Sundry, truer words were never spoken. I am from NE La. and it's like another part of the country from even Alexandria. People assume that because I'm from La. I must be Cajun, speak Cajun and cook Cajun. Not so. The customs, mindset, all kinds of factors, are vastly different. And New Orleans is like a different state altogether. I am as much a tourist in South Louisiana as someone from Maine or Oregon or NYC might be. I do envy you some of that wetness, and did even when I lived in Ouachita Parish.

Listing a zone and state are helpful starting points when trying to give advice. If I see someone is from NJ, I might offer my experiences with growing something, but would let someone from TX, for example, help out another Texan. Something that is best in full sun here, might prefer partial or afternoon shade there. The zone assists in narrowing it down a bit more. I know that fig trees and crepe myrtles are fully hardy trees in zone 7 NJ, but require protection in zone 6 NJ, or are perhaps only root hardy.

I'm glad to see so much agreement, and Dave's suggestion. Does the lack of Zone perhaps come from newcomers who don't realize where it shows up, and why it's important? Everyone I have walked through the procedure has been thankful.

Yeah, Aimee... You got busted, LOL!

darius
I think newbies are either intimidated by setting up the member page (totally new to computers and the net, unsure and therefore unwilling to try) or they just jump into the forums first, without looking around to see whats what. I don't think anyone is really trying to hide the info, they just don't realize how annoying it is, or that they can do something about it.

I've been to a lot of websites. There are a lot of places that have a member page that you are supposed to fill out, but it serves no purpose, except to maybe give the stalker you said hello to in chat the means to show up at your house ... lol! This isn't one of those places, but maybe some newbies don't realize it.

Aimee
I feel like culturally, South Louisiana is like a whole 'nother planet. I remember the first time I took a trip to North Louisiana ... Culture Shock! It was a friend's family reunion in Monroe ... the food, the climate, the landscape, the food, the customs, the language ... did I mention the food!!!! I was lost. I'd been out of state many times before, but this was IN LOUISIANA! That's when I realized it's us who are strange. (that's ok, we like being strange)

And we would be happy to share some rain, most of the time, anyway.

Cheri'

Ah, you were in my old stomping grounds, then. Really, you thought the food was strange? I thought it was real common soul food and country stuff. The exotic stuff was all south of Pineville. I am aware of the differences in speech more than anything else. I agree, South Louisiana is like a visit to a small planet. I miss the sounds of the language. Just hearing someone from there say "New Orleans", and I am not going to try to spell it as it's pronounced, or "Ville Platte", ah, music to my ears. And speaking of music, I love stopping in the little out of the way "cafes", for lack of a better word, where people are likely to break out with a band using the kitchen implements and you aren't a stranger after five minutes. Those little shanties are disappearing, I guess, because the last two times I was in that area I only saw two. Might need to get further off the road into the swamps to find them now. There is a unique atmosphere in those places. I think maybe Lisa took GW and Howie to one like I recall.

I agree that zones should be mandatory. As a DG newbie, I can shed some light on why new gardeners may not elect their zone when they set up their page, and how this may be remedied...

Under the "Set Preferences: Location" section of one's Member Page, there is a link meant to assist a new member in discovering one's zone.

However, the site referenced, arborday.org, was unable to pinpoint my exact zone, suggesting "zone 5 or zone 6." This site certainly doesn't specify A or B at all. On the DG Location pull down screen, one must chose a zone and an A or B designation. Since the arborday.org site does not assist in determining this designation, a newbie is left with insufficient information. Not wanting to select the wrong zone and misrepresent onesself, a newbie may chose to leave out the zone designation.

Perhaps, if given better information about zones and the election of A or B, a new member can chose the appropriate zone.

This site gives a new gardener much more information about what constitutes a zone A or B in each state.
http://www.growit.com/Zones/

Information/Background on the NEW USDA 2003 Hardiness Code map from the American Horticultural Assoc.
http://www.ahs.org/publications/usda_hardiness_zone_map.htm

The Draft Version of NEW USDA 2003 Hardiness Code map (image is large and may load slowly on dialup connections)
http://www.ahs.org/pdfs/USDA_Map_3.03.pdf

Hope this helps!

Hey, ANewYorker... That site for zones by state is pretty cool. Thanks!

darius ~ Amazing what a little surfin' will do... :)


This message was edited Monday, Jul 28th 12:55 PM

zones are guidlines...
for the most part I find them fairly pointless.
I'm in zone 8b, and I have killed Artemesia's overwinter...

most has to do with the microclimates, particular habitat of the plant, moisture/fertilizer content of the plant, proper mulching (be it a dead Christmas tree or 4ft of snow).

I lose alot of hardy plants simply because they'll resprout in January during a warm week or two.

*shrugs* I guess I'll list mine since you folks are so concerned.

Drew

I am not able to access the site with the draft version of the new USDA 2003 Hardiness Code map. When I try to access it I get Acrobat Reader but nothing else. I am on broadband so that is not the problem. Someone posted this link on another thread and I had the same results there. I would really like to see this map; any suggestions on how I can do that? Thanks.

It took a real long time to show up for me, I'm on high speed cable. I had kind of given up on it, gone on to other windows, and when I came back, it was there.

Cheri'

Did you have to wait awhile after Adobe Reader showed up? Maybe I am jumping the gun. I'll try it again. Thanks.

NoH2O, Yes, the last link may take awhile - it is a very large .pdf file, very graphics-intensive. If you have dialup and a less-than-new computer processor, I don't know how long it could take! I use cable modem, and it still takes 30 seconds or so. Good luck!
-CheriNY

ANY, I have high speed broadband. When I access the mapsite it may take about 15 seconds or so. Then my taskbar shows the website and Acrobat Reader. My window is blank. The Windows (? don't know what else to call it) icon in the upper right corner which spins when a site is being accessed is no longer spinning, and nothing is happening. Since the icon isn't spinning I am assuming it is done accessing the site but still I have a blank screen and nothing to show for it!!?? I'm stumped.

NoWater, when I accessed that site, it opened Acrobat Reader but downloaded the file. I had to find the file and open it from within Reader.

How do I do that Darius?

Try looking in your download folder on the C drive, or wherever you usually put downloads.

I have mine set up to go on the desktop, so I can easily throw away those I don't want to keep.

Well, it's still not mandatory, but visitors who have given neither their zone or their city, are nagged on the front page until the finally put one or both in. :)

That should help considerably.

Dave

Okay Darius now you've lost me. I'm a newbie to computers and the internet.....just got one this March. I just did a search for downloads - got some stuff but not this. I don't see it on C drive and frankly I am in over my head here. I think it might be simpler just to wait until the map is published!! LOL Thanks for your help though!

Here it is as an image. Obviously, you don't see the finely grained detail, but it's better than nothing.

(I'm actually currently working on updating our zone page with the latest USDA zone.)

Dave

NoH2O

search for USDA_Map_3.03.pdf

Back to the beginning, you do have adobe acrobat reader installed on your computer, yes?

It took a long time to open, even after adobe opened. the only time I see the thing spinning is if I put my cursor on the status bar.

If all else fails, come back to the link, put your cursor on it and right click. Choose 'Save target as' from the resulting menu. Choose to save it to your desktop (so you can find it later) and click ok. Once it downloads, you should be able to just double click the adobe icon on your desktop to view the file.

Hope that helps
Cheri'

Sundry - I did what you said and opened the file...started to get a map and then got an error message saying operation or file was too complex...I agreed with that!

Dave, thanks for posting the image. I can see Ohio has changed - it is all the same zone now!

I think I have hijacked this thread long enough. Over and out.

Well, the USDA zone map on DG has changed. Check it out for yourself:

http://davesgarden.com/zone/

dave

I'm not changing my zone, no matter what the USDA says. THIS IS NOT ZONE 6!!!! We are so zone 5 it's sometimes borders on 4!

I do appreciate your efforts, Dave. I KNOW you had nothing to do with this very large error(in my opinion).

On the old map part of Ohio was zone 5a and the rest zone 5b. On the new map all of Ohio is zone 6. In my experience the zones have only been loose guidelines. I am in zone 5b yet I have had success with plants hardy only to zone 6 or zone 7. I also have lost zone 5 plants to winter kill. One of my favorite examples is gladiolas, which are hardy only to zone 7. Mine have been in my zone 5b garden for years and continue to thrive and multiply. And for at least 4 weeks each spring they are under water!! (They are in a low spot that floods.) I think it will be interesting to see if a lot of plants get 'hardier' because more people are trying them in their now 'warmer' zones.

Hmmm, I'm thinking that with this 14,400 modem and my dial-up connection, this might be a losing battle for me at this time. Dave, if you would add some zone to mine, I would be eternally grateful, but I know you don't want to make a habit of this so I don't expect it.

When I get a "real" system again, or did I ever have one?, I will try to correct this and other of my omissions I blame on the creaky beast on my desk.

Well if nothing else this thread sure shows the variety of opinions on this site!! Yeee Haw!!! Gotta luv this place!

Oh, yes, opinions abound here! Not that anyone would ever accuse me of being opinionated, but you know, some folks are.