where do all the roses come from

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/02/13/MN181446.DTL

yikes! glad I get chocolates instead..oh oh...where do chocolates come from? I bet the pickers of coco beans have the same problems.

Chocolate is a necessity, roses are not.

this is pretty horrific!!!! children******can you even imagine.....I'll take the chocolates, always! Elaine

Sorry for the news gang, but most of the chocolate sold in US is from cocoa plants grown in Africa, where the labor is provided by child slaves. Most of them are sold by their families at age 10, and worked until age 17 or 18 (or death). They receive no wages, only food and shelter.

Lupine Lover is absolutely correct.

It should also be known that the world's pre~processed and processed chocolate market, as well the market for secondary milk products (such as condensed milk and others that go into chocolates and other manufactured foods) is controlled by a single company: Nestle, one of the largest global enterprises.

In example, Nestle (headquartered in Switrzerland), owns Carnation.

The American equivalent to Nestle is Archer Daniels Midland.

Adam.

I know several people who boycott Nestle products, I once worked for a company that had this boycott. I was the buyer of kitchen food supplies, it's incredibly difficult to find coffee or powered milk (among other things) that don't have a Nestle connection!

Not all Cocoa plantations have this child slave policy! Here's a couple of sites that might be of interest

http://www.stopchildlabor.org/internationalchildlabor/do.htm

Cadbury's view
http://www.cadburyschweppes.com/faqs/cocoa_procurement.html

If you read the Cadbury site, it lists numerous reasons why the company cannot ascertain with certainty the labor practices followed on the small holding plantations of their growers.

As is widely recognized, the cocoa supply chain is a long and complex one, and the farming is done in the poorest parts of the planet, often plagued by truly grusome civil strife.

In the last few years, world market prices for cocoa have plummetted, encouraging the use of unpaid child labor (slaves).

In general (having been to many of these locales for work), I would say the governments of these nations lack the resources and infrastructure to develop and enforce child labor practices we in the industrialized world would recognize as reasonable.

Two questions flow from this...,

What is the ethical and moral obligation of, let's say, Cadbury, to ensure the wellbeing of laborers whom they state are not their employees?

When I go to the shop and buy candy..., what's mine?

Adam.



This message was edited Saturday, Feb 15th 2:02 PM

Wow, I had no idea. I can tell you that no one got harmed on my account though, roses and Valentine's Day are not my cup of tea.

Oh, you know, I just realized that I hijacked Troy's thread, for which I apologize.

An article similar to the one Troy cites in the first post also appeared on the front page of the NY Times.

My wife and I have been to Columbia, where the rose industry was heavily promoted as a high value replacement for the narcotics trade (limited success). When you fly into Bogota, the plateau around the city is literally covered with rose and other cut flower farms.

US tax dollars underwrote rose and cut flower culture research and development in the region and also gave partial guarantee of bank loans to financial institutions.
This was and is all part of the US anti~drug efforts in that part of the world.

As an aside, Karen and I heartily suggest that Columbia ought not be among your top ten holiday destinations.

Adam.

This message was edited Saturday, Feb 15th 2:30 PM

This message was edited Saturday, Feb 15th 2:31 PM

Aotearoa

As Oscar Wilde said, 'The truth is rarely pure and never simple'. It's a difficult question, but I agree, where does the obligation end?

Let's face it, it isn't just roses and chocolate is it. All those sweat shops that make T-shirts, trainers, suits etc, cut flower market, coffee, tea, sugar, exotic fruit.... the list is endless.

If we only buy products that are fairly made we could be putting a lot of people out of work and in severe hardship that, in truth, the western world barely understands. If I continue to buy without thinking about the product and where it came from I'm guilty of walking by. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

As a westerner though, I do have a voice, a loud one in the case of 3rd world economics. But words are dangerous, get it wrong and we still create the severe hardship. It's definitely a delicate question that needs to be answered.

Adam; no you did not really. it was just another topic along the same. my main concern is all the chemicals that are used and that it is causing the people working with the things grown with them harm. we get upset when we read about workers earning per month what we earn in a week and forget that the cast of living in that region is allot lower (granted it would not hurt for them to earn more). I worked with some mexican guys for awhile and have some understanding of this. here they live several to a house hold the main reason which is to save money. one of the guys told me he was mainly here to make money to pay off the house he bought for what amounted to $25,000 for a nice
house and a few acres i estimated would go for about 5-6x that amounting my area. also i have seen old adds where cars sold for $400. new and bread was 5 cents and gas was 15 cents a gal and the min wage was $1.25. but selling something for $30-90 for something that costs 2 is wrong and the people doing all the work should get more of the profits

and no children should not have to be slaves. in regions where they do have to work for economic reasons they should get a fair wage. when a child is sold into slavery it
is because the parents can not afford to keep them, and by doing so they hope to give the child a better chance then if they were kept at home wondering where their next meal is coming from. yes this sucks. But until the inhabitants of this planet stop bickering with each other and start working together this will continue. but unfortunately every body wants to be in charge and have the most money or the most power. it also sucks sometimes to have a continence and not charge 5 times what something is worth at my own store

Baa & Troy ~~~

Your comments and reflections are well thought out. Yes, the world is a complex and subtle place, and one issue interlocks with another in sometimes mysterious ways.

Here is an example of which my wife and I have direct knowledge and experience through long~term involvement:

The native peoples of America's far north lived in isolation for many centuries eeking out a hunter gatherer lifestyle on the frozen tundra. This involved hunting, trapping and fishing.

Environmental activists noted that mineral extraction in the arctic north upset the ecology. Other well meaning people also said hunting and trapping fur was cruel to animals. Others also said that native peoples should be left alone to live their traditional lifestyles, as cultural diversity enriches the planet.

The result:

Effective cause~related marketing by anti~fur activisits dried up the market for native trapped fur. The fur market collapsed in the early 90s. Animal populations swelled and consumed other animals hunted by the native peoples.

Lacking fur~related incomes, native peoples granted mineral rights by the Canadian and US governments, turned to mineral extraction companies for license income and employment, becoming allies of the very firms environmentalists tried to rally them against.

They now clean the toilets, wash the dishes and sweep the floors and perform other low~skill low~pay jobs in arctic installations and eat a diet rich in the processed foods produced in the south.

One resultamong many: an explosion of adult onset diabetes in the population.

Yes, life has its ironies.

Adam.

This message was edited Saturday, Feb 15th 6:36 PM