New option in PDB

Today I added an option within the Hardiness section of each entry: Not Applicable

That might seem counter-intuitive, but after coming across several entries for Annuals, where some well-meaning users checked off zones 2-11 it dawned on me that we really need to be able to indicate Annuals don't have a range of hardiness zones.

I thought I'd post this here so those who add to the PDB will know it is there, and use it appropriately. And to caution users to make certain any plant marked with this designation is TRULY an annual, and not a tender perennial or tropical, which might be grown as an annual in many parts of the country.

And issue a gentle reminder to not confuse hardiness zones with areas a plant can be grown. Common Marigolds (Tagetes) will certainly grow from balmy Florida to Maine, and everywhere in between. But that doesn't make the plants hardy in those zones!

Very tricky go_vols LOL. Don't know how you're managing to pick your way through this minefield - but your doing a v good job of it so far!! :)

vols, while we're on the subject of new checkboxes, what would you think about adding an option for deer resistance in the miscellaneous options area?

Dave

I think it would be fine to add deer-resistant to the list. It's easy to add it, the real work comes in to figure out which plants should have it checked.

And at some point (soon) that "catch-all" category is going to have to be revisited, and some of those items placed in their own category ;0)

Go_vols, that's a great addition, thanks :D

Yes, I agree.

Dave

GV, I saw that "not applicable" box, and have kept meaning to say thanks!!!!! Sure is great in the veggie section, no matter if they are annual or biennial (very few people grow veggies for seed-saving purposes).

It would also be great *hint hint* to have an area for "days to harvest" for veggies. So far I have been trying to list that in the comment section, but to be able to do a search by length of time to harvest could be a real benefit!

I feel like Super Pedant!

OK here goes, wouldn't it be better to say has some resistance to deer? Deer will eat a lot of deer resistant plants when the plants are young and some species of deer will eat plants that other species won't and ..... (yes folks, there's more!) doesn't it depend on deer food availability as to whether they will browse on many supposedly deer resistant plants?

Right now that's done I can go back to sitting quietly in the corner *G*

Baa, yes the pedantic (I am one, btw) would say all the things you did. However, in general, some plants are less attractive to deer than other plants, and, as a rule, when deer are hungry and the browse-count is low, they will eat just about anything.

But, I wanted to be able to mark those plants that are generally less attractive to deer, such as the highly fragrant foliages, gray leaves, fuzzy leaves, etc.

dave

Thanks for clearing that one Dave! (and for letting me know I'm not so alone in the pedant seat)

Not that I could even say what is or isn't deer resistant, we fortunately don't suffer from them, now domestic fowl resistant would be really useful for me ;)

Lupie, seasons in one part of the country are totally different in another. Harvest days vary by Zone and would have to be specified accordingly. One more conundrum.

Yes, true enough, Ulrich, but adding the days to harvest, as listed by the grower would seem a good thing to me. Since I have a short growing season, I am always looking for early varieties, and the days to maturity help in that respect.

My real issue with days to maturity is just where are we starting, and what is mature? Is this date from germination or transplanting out? Does maturity mean blooming, fruiting, what?

Weez, one of the reasons I put in a plea was because I saw you had listed a veggie that days to harvest was a very high number compared to the catalogues' time. I figured that was because you are in a cool climate.

Usually "days to maturity" means for things that are direct-seeded (beans, root vegetables, etc), how long after germination until they are ready to eat. For things usually transplanted from seedlings (tomato, pepper, brassicas, etc) is how long after transplant the crop is ready for harvest.

Even if the number is arbitrary, and varies wildly by climate, it is usually a good measuring device, especially for those who have a short season.

Go_Vols, One more big beg: in the propagation part, "direct seed as soon as soil is workable" would be wonderfully helpful for cool-season veggies!!!!! Planting after frost date (mid-May here) would be a disaster for peas, carrots, beets, cabbage, etc which would all die in the hot summer. Puh-leeze Go_Vols? With a big dab of compost on top? *grin*

I can add it - but..... it won't show up with the other seed germination techniques. It'll be at the bottom of the list unless you can talk Dave into doing one of his magic tricks to rearrange them.

An alternative to consider is changing the "direct sow after frost" to something more general: "direct sow in spring", or just "direct sow"

Any ideas/thoughts/opinions/objections? Let's hear 'em!

Vols

I've got a couple of things that might be useful in the propagation option give a little time and I'll post them here.

Would any of these be useful?

By sowing outside under cover in autumn
By sowing outside undercover in spring
By sowing indoors in autumn
By taking root cuttings
By taking Irishman's cuttings
Needs light to germinate
Needs darkness to germinate
Soak seeds before sowing
Seeds may have double dormancy

Lupinelover: I only post days to maturity that are listed on my seed packets or in reference sources, since my circumstances are so different from most folks. If I posted an inaccurate maturity date, please post it on the error report so it can be researched. I could be mistaken or just have typoed, but either way, I'd like to have it right.

Days to maturity are probably less important to some than others. Here, due to our short season, the shorter days to maturity could mean the difference between having a good crop and having no crop at all. Perhaps, short season, late season, early, late would be better options or descriptions than actual numbers.

I've noticed that we all comment on a plant according to our own experiences, and that is what we're supposed to be doing, as I understand. However, since there is no zone or locale included automatically when we post a comment, people have no idea where we are growing or trying to grow these plants. Rather than saying, "This plant gets powdery mildew.", we should say, "In my humid, zone # climate, this plant developed powdery mildew". I think we need to know where our contributors are growing their plants.

I agree I think needs light and needs dark to germinate should be added to the propagation. And needs warm and cold etc. which I think is what Baa means with the double dormancy.(correct me if I am wrong). While we are on this sense its seems it's mostly turned to questions on the veggies. The spacing are you talking about the spacing of the seeds when you plant them or the rows.(thinking beans here)?

"Direct sow" is what I have been hoping for for a long time. Some folks just don't know from frost.

Baa, What is an "Irishman's cutting?" I definitely agree on adding root cuttings, as well as the further techniques for getting seeds to germinate, like soaking or light/darkness requirements.

Weez, I will have to go back and search; I think it was a lettuce, but I am not positive. Didn't mean to offend; with your climate, I thought it was an accurate reflection on your own experience! It really made me admire your determination more, to keep gardening in such adverse conditions ;D

Double dormancy is when seeds need to go through 2 cycles of cold (two winters) before germinating. And I aggree... it should be an option, as well as the others suggested.

I also was thinking maybe we should concider addiotional options for flowers that are useful for cutting, and flowers that dry well.

Mystic good question on the spacing.

Thanks Poppysue re double dormancy. I agree with the cutting and dryng option too.

Lupine

Irishman's cuttings are in the garden terms, it's probaby one of the easiest ways of vegetative propagation. All you do is take a basal cutting with roots on and stick it in some soil, it has a very high degree of success.

No offense taken, Lupinlover. This is a team effort, and I know we all want to get it right. If you can recall which entry, I'll go back and check it to see where I got the info. Perhaps I can find it. I can't have entered too many comments about lettuce!

And yes, we do start things really early around here. In fact, I start lettuce in the house under lights... at least the first crop, then I plant a big bowl shaped pot of "cut and come" for later. Generally, we can eat off the same head of lettuce all summer around here. It seldom bolts. All these different garden conditions are fascinating, but hard to generalize, aren't they.